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Hifiman Sundara Review (headphone)

devopsprodude

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Here are some thoughts about the EQ.


Notes about the EQ design:
  • The average L/R is used to calculate the score.
  • The resolution is 12 points per octave interpolated from the raw data (provided by @amirm)
  • A Genetic Algorithm is used to optimize the EQ.
  • The EQ Score is designed to MAXIMIZE the Score WHILE fitting the Harman target curve with a fixed complexity.
    This will avoid weird results if one only optimizes for the Score.
    It will probably flatten the Error regression doing so, the tonal balance should be more neutral.
  • The EQs are starting point and may require tuning (certainly at LF).
  • The range above 10kHz is usually not EQed unless smooth enough to do so.
  • I am using PEQ (PK) as from my experience the definition is more consistent across different DSP/platform implementations than shelves.
  • With some HP/amp combo the boosts and preamp gain need to be carefully considered to avoid issues
Excellent L/R match.

I have generated two EQ, the APO config files are attached.

Score Flat@ HF: default Harman curve
Score no EQ: 85.4
Score Armirm: 87.1
Score with EQ: 88.3

Code:
Hifiman Sundara APO EQ Score Flat@HF 96000Hz
April162021-130912

Preamp: -7.6 dB

Filter 1: ON PK Fc 25.8 Hz Gain 6 dB Q 0.69
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 223 Hz Gain -2.17 dB Q 0.76
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 928 Hz Gain -1.62 dB Q 1.72
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 2082 Hz Gain 1.67 dB Q 2.52
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 5302 Hz Gain 1.94 dB Q 4.55
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 6275 Hz Gain -4 dB Q 8
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 8500 Hz Gain -1.38 dB Q 7.76
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 13645 Hz Gain -7.75 dB Q 4.7

View attachment 124279

Score -1.5dB@ HF: default Harman curve decreased by 1.5dB at HF. looks closer to the initial response
Score no EQ: 84.0
Score Armirm: 82.4
Score with EQ: 92.8

Code:
Hifiman Sundara APO EQ Score -1.5dB@HF 96000Hz
April162021-130342

Preamp: -8 dB

Filter 1: ON PK Fc 29.5 Hz Gain 8 dB Q 0.88
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 941 Hz Gain -0.95 dB Q 6.16
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 2072 Hz Gain 2.18 dB Q 4.23
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 6301 Hz Gain -5.45 dB Q 7.48
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 7423 Hz Gain 2.42 dB Q 0.93
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 8500 Hz Gain -2.68 dB Q 7.76
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 13516 Hz Gain -8.92 dB Q 4.71

View attachment 124281
Yep, that's right in line with Sean Olive's previous review of the Sundara headphones.
 

devopsprodude

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Yes, it is! You can transform any cheap & bad headphone into audiophile quality by using EQ.
Not really. You can't get good imaging on a headphone with bad soundstage with EQ. There are just some things that can't be fixed via software.

You won't find many other $350 headphones that can get a 90 preference score, EQ or not.
 

KiyPhi

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Nice to see there are more reasonable priced great performing headphones. Though what is it with hifiman and cup swifel? Why hifiman? Why? Was the swifel a weak point in former designs? And instead of improving they just killed it?
It was. The old, old headbands had a lot of breakage there. There are swivel headbands you can get for it though. They don't look as stylish but has similar comfort but with swivel.
 

sweetchaos

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Amir vs Oratory1990:
amir oratory.gif

Amir vs Jaakkopasanen (measured by Oratory1990):
amir jaakko.gif

Oratory1990 vs Jaakkopasanen (measured by Oratory1990):
jaakko oratory.gif

PEQ profile by Amir (from my post #2 above):
Preamp: -8.6 dB
Filter 1: ON LS Fc 50 Hz Gain 8.0 dB Q 1.0
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 2112 Hz Gain 2.5 dB Q 1.5
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 6300 Hz Gain -4.0 dB Q 4.0

PEQ profile by Oratory1990:
Preamp: -5.5 dB
Filter 1: ON LS Fc 105 Hz Gain 5.5 dB Q 0.71
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 460 Hz Gain 1.3 dB Q 2.3
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 900 Hz Gain -1.7 dB Q 1.2
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 2000 Hz Gain 6.0 dB Q 1.0
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 3000 Hz Gain -4.4 dB Q 2.5
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 4600 Hz Gain -4.5 dB Q 3.5
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 6000 Hz Gain 3.0 dB Q 2.0
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 7500 Hz Gain -1.0 dB Q 3.0

PEQ profile by Jaakkopasanen (measured by Oratory1990):
Preamp: -5.1 dB
Filter 1: ON PK Fc 17 Hz Gain 4.1 dB Q 0.42
Filter 2: ON PK Fc 1983 Hz Gain 14.2 dB Q 1.00
Filter 3: ON PK Fc 3197 Hz Gain -13.4 dB Q 0.39
Filter 4: ON PK Fc 6825 Hz Gain 9.5 dB Q 0.66
Filter 5: ON PK Fc 19549 Hz Gain -8.7 dB Q 0.46
Filter 6: ON PK Fc 218 Hz Gain -1.3 dB Q 2.11
Filter 7: ON PK Fc 1403 Hz Gain 0.9 dB Q 6.88
Filter 8: ON PK Fc 4830 Hz Gain -3.0 dB Q 6.22
Filter 9: ON PK Fc 6042 Hz Gain 3.5 dB Q 3.15
Filter 10: ON PK Fc 6913 Hz Gain -2.9 dB Q 3.73
 

frix

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It was. The old, old headbands had a lot of breakage there. There are swivel headbands you can get for it though. They don't look as stylish but has similar comfort but with swivel.
Also from hifiman or another manufacturer?
 

paolomo

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Thanks! Do planar magnetic headphones have a difference (sense of) sound compared to traditional headphones? Was wondering if they are worth a try. HD6XX are my most used at the moment.
I’m not sure I can tell a clear sound difference screaming “planar” vs. my Sennys and Beyers. The big selling point here is that, given the impedance and distortion figures, you can apply that gargantuan sub bass shelf without fear of distortion, all at a very reasonable price. A good way to get good clean bass out of an affordable open back. I’m simplifiying, of course.
 

Rayman30

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The Sundara served me well, but despite the measurements the Ananda's soundstage and better stock tuning seemed more desirable for me. The soundstage of the Sundara is a lot more intimate and closed in, but I do like the punchier bass!

Sold the Sundara (Redundant having that and Ananda) I have a pair of Meze 99 Classics on the way for my rock/metal needs. Il use my trusty HD650 for the more intimate and midrange heavy tracks.

But I am not surprised, I do think the sound is very cohesive on the Sundara, which I did not think that about the Ananda until I used EQ.
 

Merkurio

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Great results, thanks for the review once again!

Seems like the HE6SE V2 would be the only way to get ultra low distortion and potentially linear bass extension under $1000 (while on sale), really hope to see those reviewed at some point...
 

ZolaIII

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I don't understand why you get ecstatic about those? I mean they ain't that bad but far from great either, for planars especially. Not negligible distortion at 104 dB, lo to sub bass roll of, drop in vocals & bit erratic behaviour in highs. In my book that's two minuses (bass & highs) and little (for bass thanks to distortion) to no hope (highs) in correcting them. Plenty of Fostex models sounding similarly and for less money.
Would really love to hear Amir describe subjectively what he liked so much about them regarding string instruments as that's something planars don't usually do great.
 
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