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Revel Salon2 questions

restorer-john

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Perhaps Revel as a brand simply doesn't sell enough speakers outside North America to justify continued investment in SOTA loudspeaker design and manufacture.

The brand is virtually unheard of in this country. It's hard to get, if at all in the UK, not sure about the EU, but it sure isn't good value anywhere outside the US. Considering most of the range comes out of low cost plants in Asia now, there is no excuse for more competitive price points.

It was a top tier research-based halo brand for Harman to hang their hat off. Now Harman is merely a small subsidiary of global giant Samsung. It may not survive in the long term and my bet is, unless they sell an absolute f#$k ton of their mid range, clearly very profitable speakers, in order to bankroll the small volume high end models, they will likely disappear altogether in the future.

The business case for a Salon 3 ground-up new design would be a very tough sell to (indirectly) Samsung IMO. I bet they have one, but it is on ice.
 
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thewas

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The brand is virtually unheard of in this country. It's hard to get, if at all in the UK, not sure about the EU, but it sure isn't good value anywhere outside the US.
Also close to impossible to get and listen to in Germany which is EUs largest market, weirdly Harman opened though recently a "flagship store" in Munich which seems though rather to have the usual low cost BT products https://de.harmanaudio.com/munich-store.html
 

thewas

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Well, we can't get ME Geithain here in the United States, so consider it even.
:D I hope you are kidding though comparing a giant like Samsung/Harman to the small family manufacture MEG. Weirdly you can get the low price Harman products everywhere here.
 

Mnyb

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We have Revel at some shops in Sweden but you have to travel and seek them out performa 3 F208 is between 64000:- sek and 67000:- sek pair including VAT wich is hoigh inSweden

The US price of 5000 USD would translate to 43500:- sek .

There are the usual price gouging for American hifi that always takes place in sweden due to oligopoly like importer situation . But it could be worse.
I've seen worse markups.

So yes an American can buy the F208 and we Swedes get the F206 for the same money.
 

sprellemannen

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@dehati_paul
I don't feel any need for subwoofer(s), and two AHB2's will definitively provide enough power to drive Salon2.
Good luck in choosing speakers and amplifiers, whatever you may choose.
I am very satistified with the Revel Salon2's and the Benchmark electronics.
Photos of my gear and Powerpoint-slides showing how the gear is connected:
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nerdoldnerdith

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Bridged AHB2's will drive them to satisfying levels, but they are able to take more power. If you are trying to hit reference levels at 10ft+ you will need more power. I was clipping my Purifi's listening at 10ft and needed more power.
 

sprellemannen

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Sorry Nerdolnerdith, but that is audiophool BS. There is absolutely no need for more power than two AHB2's. My room is 540 square feet (50 square meters) and the ceiling height is 29 square feet (2.7 meters). Salon2 is easy to drive (confer Stereophile's measurements).
 

RichB

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I measured the Salon2s in stereo mode at my 11 foot listening position in a 30x15x10 foot room (4500 cubic feet).
28.83 volts playing a 0 dBFS sine waves, the both playing measured 86 dB. Since the Salon2s are 4 Ohms, this is about 2 watts.
Based on this, the AHB2 (not bridged) can easily deliver 128 watts into 4 ohms to deliver 104 dB. 101 dB per speaker.
Bridged stereo in my room, the Salon2s can reach 109 dB. That is too loud for me.

- Rich
 

steve59

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It seems a shame to hand the bass off to subs but they do like a LOT of power to run full range. I sent revel a text asking if I could get the goods to put a salon 2 tweeter into a pair of F52’s .. I also apologized for asking such a silly question and their reply was that while they couldn’t accommodate my request it wasn’t that uncommon.
 

nerdoldnerdith

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Sorry Nerdolnerdith, but that is audiophool BS. There is absolutely no need for more power than two AHB2's. My room is 540 square feet (50 square meters) and the ceiling height is 29 square feet (2.7 meters). Salon2 is easy to drive (confer Stereophile's measurements).
You're telling someone who has the exact experience that would allow him to make such a claim that he doesn't know what he's talking about. I have Salon2's. I was driving them with 400 watts. They were clipping. The Salon2's need more power if you are driving them loud. Even some basic calculations will tell you that you need more power to hit reference levels.
 

steve59

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My H360 rated at 250/425 wpc would go into thermal shutdown when trying to drive the salon 2’s to 96 db! I’ve used this piece to drive several other full range speakers including the blades I’m currently using and the salon 2 was the only speaker to cause this amp to shut down, I’ll add the volume would be set to 65 of a 99 max.
 

steve59

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After experiencing this problem I contacted revel support and asked how much power they recommend? The prompt email reply was only this.
500 watts.
 

DonH56

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Reference level = 105 dB/speaker

Salon2 sensitivity = 86.4 dB for 2.83 Vrms @ 1 m, 6-ohm nominal or 1.333 W so deduct 10log(1.333) = 1.25 dB yields 85.15 dB/W/m nominal

Thus 105 dB - 85.15 dB = 19.85 dB power gain needed = 96.6 W/m will produce 105 dB SPL at 1 m from the speaker

From there to 10' (3.048 m) the loudness depends upon the room and how reflective, where in the room the speakers are, etc. Anechoically at 10' you'd need 900 W to achieve 105 dB/speaker at 10' (3.048 m) listening distance (-6 dB for every doubling of distance, so -9.75 dB going from 1 m to 3.048 m). If you have a reflective wall near the speaker, you gain 3 dB, and need "only" 450 W to reach 105 dB at the listening position. This is all using the 6-ohm nominal rating; actual power varies with the speaker's impedance and sensitivity over frequency.

I use subs with my Salon2s mainly to help compensate room modes and smooth the in-room bass response. My subs do give me an extra octave-plus in low-end response but I doubt I really need that except very rarely (in-room the subs are -3 dB at ~7 Hz). Dr. Toole and others ar Harman also use subs with their Salon2's so I feel I am in good company.

FWIWFM/my 0.000001 cent (microcent)/etc. - Don

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Edit: My "Why subs?" post pasted from elsewhere:

I use subs, and have for decades, for all the usual reasons:

- Very (perhaps extremely) few "large" speakers actually play well below 40 Hz let alone 20 Hz. They distort heavily when presented with large bass signals (which most are -- see Fletcher-Munson) and driving them down low robs headroom for higher frequencies and causes distortion well above the fundamental signal frequency (harmonic and nasty intermodulation). Subs typically enable the mains to operate with much lower distortion.

- Very rare is the room setup such that the best place for stereo imaging and soundfield is the best place for the subs (or deep bass drivers) to counter room modes and such. Having independent subs provides placement options to smooth the in-room response. It is almost impossible to counter a null without subs (typically must move the MLP or change the room's dimensions though there are purpose-built panels that can also work). This is one of the things that led me to subs despite having quite capable mains.

- Powered subs offload the main amplifiers of the need to provide deep bass energy, providing more headroom and cleaner sound from the amplifiers.

- Music (let alone action movies) often contains deep bass content even if it is not real obvious. Kick drums, tympani, organ, sure, but also piano hammer strikes, plucked strings, beat patterns from instruments playing together, etc. May not really notice when they are there but usually obvious when they are taken away. Having subs fill in the bottom octave or three can make a difference.

- Purpose-built subs can provide high output cleanly at relatively low cost. The amplifiers and drivers need only cover a fairly limited frequency range so have fewer constraints upon them than woofers in a full-range system.

I do prefer main speakers with fairly deep bass and always have. Crossovers are not brick walls so a fair amount of energy still comes from the mains an octave below the crossover frequency. Higher-order crossovers allow you to reduce the overlap, but I still like having the capability. I have never really understood the idea of running "passive" bi-amping as implemented by an AVR (sending full-range signals to multiple channels and letting the speaker's crossovers separate frequency bands -- wastes amplifier headroom and seems to me of little benefit). Nor do I agree with the "plus" setting putting subs and mains in parallel; again, my idea has always been to isolate the two for the reasons above.

My first sub was a DIY design using an Infinity IRS woofer with my own control box to provide the crossover and a servo circuit using the second voice coil of the woofer. I had a Hafler DH-220 around so also incorporated a circuit to bridge it for use as a subwoofer amp. It worked well and the -3 dB point was ~16 Hz. I now run four small (F12) Rythmik subs using a similar (but updated) servo design with my Revel Salon2's and am happy with the result.

FWIWFM/IME/IMO/my 0.000001 cent (microcent) - Don

Stereo subs:

I have gone back and forth on stereo subs over many years (since ~1979/1980 when I built my first sub) and ultimately decided it is not worth it. It limits placement and correction options, almost no stereo content exits at sub frequencies (remember a wavelength is >11 feet at 100 Hz, >22 feet at 50 Hz, just how much stereo separation can there be in a normal listening situation?), and the end result was always much better when I ran the subs mono and placed them optimally for best in-room bass response. If your crossover is so high and/or filter roll-off so low that your subs intrude into the lower midrange you might appreciate stereo but I have always rolled off well below the point at which I could localize the subs. For years I ran stereo subs but many tests blind and otherwise convinced me stereo subs are just an unnecessary hassle that actually reduced my system's performance and sound.
 

steve59

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I so wanted the salon 2 to be my last speaker. After spending $4500 on my h360 and really liking it I decided it was staying and I would keep buying speakers until I found the pair that clicked with it. It was a great excuse to try all the speakers I was interested in as long as I was willing to drive and the sale price was low enough to resell with little to no loss. If I was to design the salon 3 it would be an active dsp of the current model.
 

richard12511

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My H360 rated at 250/425 wpc would go into thermal shutdown when trying to drive the salon 2’s to 96 db! I’ve used this piece to drive several other full range speakers including the blades I’m currently using and the salon 2 was the only speaker to cause this amp to shut down, I’ll add the volume would be set to 65 of a 99 max.

The trouble is the sensitivity. Getting an 86dB sensitive speaker to 105dB/speaker(reference level), at say 4m(probably a normalish distance for that speaker), is gonna take quite a bit of power
Screen Shot 2021-11-13 at 4.12.30 PM.png


Luckily, the Salon2 seems to take lots of power quite well. Reference level is also really loud. I doubt many people really want to listen that loud. Finally, boundary gain and having more than one speaker come into play when listening in stereo/multichannel in a normal room, which really helps.
 

nerdoldnerdith

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For reference, I was driving my Salon2's with Purifi 1ET400A's (425W/4, 225W/8) at a 10ft listening distance from the speakers, and I got clipping with bass-heavy music at -3dB below reference. It was loud, but my ears and the speakers could handle more. I upgraded to Hypex NC2000's and have not run into any problems since.
 
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