Bargain DAC Suggestions?

[Veri]

The Sabaj D4 seems quite impressive for the price indeed.

 

[RTI]

The Sabaj D4 seems quite impressive for the price indeed.

not too many reviews though. would be interesting to see how the AK4452 sounds/performs

 

[amirm]

not too many reviews though. would be interesting to see how the AK4452 sounds/performs

There is one piece of feedback on it from a member here: https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...heap-compact-dac-with-remote.2201/#post-70965

Let me think about whether I want to order it or not. Alternatively the few of you could get together, buy it and send it to me for measurement.

 

[gvl]

I just registered, but I've been visiting the site for a few weeks.

I had them send me a copy of the Melokin DA9.1 manual https://ufile.io/5miox

I'm close to buying one of these because it's an affordable ESS 9038 Pro implementation that includes a headphone amp with an adjustable output impedance, and allows for disabling some ESS chip features via jumpers. It also has balanced outputs on the PCB that you can break-out. I'm thinking about getting one of these and adding XLR jacks to the side of the case.

That link has expired. Any info if one can (easily, no soldering required) disable jitter correction and put the ESS chip in sync mode with MCLK from I2S?

 

[amirm]

That link has expired. Any info if one can (easily, no soldering required) disable jitter correction and put the ESS chip in sync mode with MCLK from I2S?

I have bought one and when I have time I can dig into it and find out. I also have a contact at the company if that fails.

 

[gvl]

I have bought one and when I have time I can dig into it and find out. I also have a contact at the company if that fails.

Thanks. I've read there are audible gains to be had when running ESS chips in sync mode, given a good clock of course. For this particular DAC I could only find you can disable dejitter and dither via jumpers, nothing about sync mode. I suppose one could desolder the internal XO and wire the ESS chip to I2S MCLK if not already, but that's slightly more effort than I would want to invest at this time.

 

[amirm]

It seems unlikely that changing the clocking is just a simple dip switch change.

 

[gvl]

It seems unlikely that changing the clocking is just a simple dip switch change.

I poked around on diyaudio, apparently ESS chip implementation details are under NDA, but what I could find unlike the earlier 9018 which would never run in the true sync mode the ES9038PRO has a "legit" sync operating mode, to enable it you must send a command through i2c so yes, dip-switches likely won't suffice. Once put into the sync mode you can clock the chip using 128*FS master clock from I2S for FS<=384kHz, and 64*FS for FS>384kHz. Apparently when the chip is run in the sync mode euphoria results.

That said, there is some sort of micro-controller or FPGA chip on the Melokin board and it is very likely the dip-switches simply cause firmware to program the DAC chip differently and may well be used to put it into the sync mode, if the firmware supports it.

Also an interesting find was a comment that ESS chips do have pretty wild variance from chip to chip in output levels, so dual mono designs while can be done typically result in reduced dynamic range in one channel as the chip outputs have to be matched by reducing one chip output to match the other.

 

[Deleted member 1514]

That link has expired. Any info if one can (easily, no soldering required) disable jitter correction and put the ESS chip in sync mode with MCLK from I2S?

DA 9.1 manual

 

[gvl]

DA 9.1 manual

Thank you. They have a store on ebay, I asked and sadly no sync mode support at the moment, the manual confirms it. I asked if this is something that can be added by a future f/w upgrade, they are investigating. I have a decent DDC and would be very interested in this DAC if it could run in sync mode as the ones that already can sell for 4 digits.

 

[Elix]

I poked around on diyaudio, apparently ESS chip implementation details are under NDA, but what I could find unlike the earlier 9018 which would never run in the true sync mode the ES9038PRO has a "legit" sync operating mode, to enable it you must send a command through i2c so yes, dip-switches likely won't suffice. Once put into the sync mode you can clock the chip using 128*FS master clock from I2S for FS<=384kHz, and 64*FS for FS>384kHz. Apparently when the chip is run in the sync mode euphoria results.

This is interesting, where can I get more details on this? Are you aware of any portable DAPs/DACs that use this sync operation?

 

[DonH56]

Most consumer DACs are going the other way, isolating the internal DAC clock from the incoming data stream, because the internal clock is often much cleaner (lower in jitter and other distortion) and by buffering the data you can isolate the internal DAC and resultant analog outputs from the incoming (noisy) data and power connections. Using a master clock is more common in the professional world where multiple devices need to stay in synch during the recording, mixing, and mastering processes.

Speaking for myself, I have no need for a synch feature in my home audio system.

YMMV - Don

 

[Elix]

Apparently when the chip is run in the sync mode euphoria results.

This statement caught my attention.

 

[RayDunzl]

Also an interesting find was a comment that ESS chips do have pretty wild variance from chip to chip in output levels, so dual mono designs while can be done typically result in reduced dynamic range in one channel as the chip outputs have to be matched by reducing one chip output to match the other.

Do you have a reference for that?

How would matching be performed on a production line?

 

[gvl]

This is interesting, where can I get more details on this? Are you aware of any portable DAPs/DACs that use this sync operation?

Well, this is more or less basics. An external stable master clock that is in sync with the data is ideal but generally it is not something that you see in consumer devices. I doubt this is something you can find specifically in portable DACs but many may more or less already work this way by clocking the DAC from the same clock as the async USB input.

Most consumer DACs are going the other way, isolating the internal DAC clock from the incoming data stream, because the internal clock is often much cleaner (lower in jitter and other distortion) and by buffering the data you can isolate the internal DAC and resultant analog outputs from the incoming (noisy) data and power connections. Using a master clock is more common in the professional world where multiple devices need to stay in synch during the recording, mixing, and mastering processes.

Speaking for myself, I have no need for a synch feature in my home audio system.

YMMV - Don

True, however based on what I could find the ESS chips run ASRC which isn't exactly the same as the FIFO memory buffer. Taking external clock that is synchronized with data allows to turn the ASRC off, which can in theory improve things, but as usual YMMV. I found multiple people reporting improved sonics when ES9038PRO is run in sync mode, on different forums, about different DACs. They must be onto something.

This statement caught my attention.

Take what you read in on Internet with a grain of salt

Do you have a reference for that?

How would matching be performed on a production line?

Nothing solid, just an anecdotal reference: start reading from here

 

[WondrousHippo]

not too many reviews though. would be interesting to see how the AK4452 sounds/performs

The Sabaj D4 isn't bad. Especially once I started using it in my headphone setup with my Massdrop Cavalli Tube Hybrid headphone amp. While I can't objectively prove they made any difference, changing the filters from the "acoustics" settings (there's a separate "Sound" filter, that I don't know what it does, as there's no manual online and my box is in storage) helped when listening with headphones as it sounded subjectively kinda fuzzy before. I can't objectively prove a difference beyond "changing a setting made me feel better."

Otherwise, issues I've had:

- Headphone output is noisy with sensitive IEMs and has unknown output impedance, but it didn't make my ATH-IM02 noticeably brighter as high output impedances tend to do. Also, it's a 3.5mm output, you might prefer 6.3mm.
- The screen is quite small, so it's tough to see it from a distance
- No buttons for directly switching to inputs – the input changing button goes USB->Bluetooth->Coaxial->Optical – so setting up with something like a Harmony remote would be tough.
- Volume settings are shared between headphone and line output. What happens is that if your volume is above 20 (out of 40) then when you switch from line output to headphone (I much prefer the switching with the remote button, as opposed to it happening automatically) the volume gets set to 20. This is good so that you don't blow up your ears or sensitive headphones (this thing can drive my HD580s quite well, though based on my experience and listed power output, you might not want to use this with low-efficiency and low-impedance planars) but might make it a bit annoying if you don't need the variable output.
- The buttons on the device are capacitive, and not the most responsive. Some things, like Bluetooth pairing, might be impossible from the device itself, and would work only through the remote.

So yeah, there are a lot of little quality of life issues or features that you might prefer operate differently. However, when I was using it in a less-critical situation as a preamp for my JBL LSR305s in my TV setup that occasionally played music, it sounded great. And once I messed with those filters, I got to be a lot happier with the sound of it. And as a headphone amp, as long as you're not using sensitive IEMs, you won't have a problem with it.

Honestly, I think that I'd only really recommend it if you need a DAC with remote control, as it's the cheapest viable option I've found, and it does a good job with that! But without a remote, you can do quite well for yourself in the price point, can get the D50 for $50 more, or even a good DAC/amp combo if you need a separate headphone amp.

 

[Jacona]

Recently came across this new "made in america" audio company
https://geshelli.com/

Their DAC is 200 while there Headphone Amplifier is 120
Certain information are lacking in the product pages and it appears the DAC lacks any USB input.

Anyone have experience with these products?

 

[amirm]

I had not heard of them but they seem reasonably priced for US built products. How about dropping them a note and asking them if they will send me one to test?

 

[WondrousHippo]

Recently came across this new "made in america" audio company
https://geshelli.com/

Their DAC is 200 while there Headphone Amplifier is 120
Certain information are lacking in the product pages and it appears the DAC lacks any USB input.

Anyone have experience with these products?

I've seen someone selling on Reddit for about half of listed price. The SPDIF-only inputs are an interesting decision, also going with the ability to have low or high output voltage. I've been curious at the used price.

 

[RTI]

Honestly, I think that I'd only really recommend it if you need a DAC with remote control, as it's the cheapest viable option I've found, and it does a good job with that! But without a remote, you can do quite well for yourself in the price point, can get the D50 for $50 more, or even a good DAC/amp combo if you need a separate headphone amp.

Thank you for this very comprehensive review. I'm still in the market for a DAC/headphone amp and with a remote *that actually has volume control over the line-out* (as I have an old Pioneer A-717 speaker amp) and this combo device would suit me.