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Review and Measurements of Chord Hugo 2 DAC and Headphone Amplifier

Blumlein 88

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My apologies. I bit.

Yes, I do get what this forum is about, and it is apparently not always about rational, intelligent discussion. (I hope you read the entire page of the link I sent.)
It is only about measurements. Since I have none to post, I will bow out.

Regards,
Rene

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Please don't be overly sensitive Rene. Plenty here would like hear what you have to say. Obviously not every comment requires measurements personally done by the poster in order to post. We can point to what others have done (as you did). Or some of our own. Or even thoughtfully consider what might be happening. I think that is obvious reading posts here. And while rational intelligent discussion is the goal we have to recognize we are humans and not always rational with each other. Plus we sometimes poke fun at each other here as well.

You've plenty to contribute so don't be shy about it and don't go away. Please.
 

Wombat

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Yes. Stay in. Definitely. Your posts are interesting.;)
 

Fitzcaraldo215

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PS: Just one more thing: To have a better understanding of HW and SW also makes better, more intelligent designs. It doesn’t makes sense to have different HW, HW protocols (like HDMI etc.) if changes could be made in SW. It’s really waste to have too much special computing in hardware. Just think about waste management from an environmental point of view if producers insist on doing things in HW instead of SW. More focus on SW could prolong the life of electronic equipment, from DACs to TVs.

Yes, yes. I emphasized software and deemphasized hardware in my setup to just PC, DAC, amps and speakers for the reasons you cited. I was getting tired of reselling audio hardware at rapidly declining prices for newer models due to obsolescence.

My 10+ year old TV monitor still works adequately in HiDef, though newer is definitely better there. Fortunately, TV and video are not my top priorities. But, any hardware platform eventually reaches its limits of what can be accomplished even with software upgrades.
 

Rene

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Yes. Stay in. Definitely. Your posts are interesting.;)

Thank you.

My posting of the link to Archimago's survey was based on my assumption that the respondents to that survey were audiophiles or music lovers (I make a distinction) who had actually listened to high resolution files. And that assumption was based upon the level of intelligence evidenced in Archimago's blog.
You should infer from that post, that I believe I can hear the "improvement" in the sound of high resolution files as opposed to standard redbook cds.

Now I'll offer the caveat that there is no way to validate that impression of difference without realizing that to play 44.1/16 vs. a higher sampling rate file requires a different reconstruction filter; otherwise, what's to hear? Nor do we often have the same selection in the different formats to compare. So I'm saying, in other words, that it's hard to perform true (or valid) comparisons, between sample rates, or even between dacs, and we ultimately rely on long-term impressions.

So, do I believe in using measurements during the process of developing or evaluating a product? For sure!
But I'll be damned if I have ever found, except in cases of gross distortion, a correlation to what I hear.
 

Blumlein 88

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Thank you.

My posting of the link to Archimago's survey was based on my assumption that the respondents to that survey were audiophiles or music lovers (I make a distinction) who had actually listened to high resolution files. And that assumption was based upon the level of intelligence evidenced in Archimago's blog.
You should infer from that post, that I believe I can hear the "improvement" in the sound of high resolution files as opposed to standard redbook cds.

Now I'll offer the caveat that there is no way to validate that impression of difference without realizing that to play 44.1/16 vs. a higher sampling rate file requires a different reconstruction filter; otherwise, what's to hear? Nor do we often have the same selection in the different formats to compare. So I'm saying, in other words, that it's hard to perform true (or valid) comparisons, between sample rates, or even between dacs, and we ultimately rely on long-term impressions.

So, do I believe in using measurements during the process of developing or evaluating a product? For sure!
But I'll be damned if I have ever found, except in cases of gross distortion, a correlation to what I hear.

Yes, good things to consider. I first remember bumping into Amir, when he was saying he could ABX some jangling keys of Arny Kruger I think. On the other forum. I too could ABX them in redbook vs hirez. What I was hearing however was the downsampling/upsampling software. When I took the original and did my own down/upsampling with modern higher quality software, I could no longer hear a difference. So comparing the different formats can be a sticky wicket to work with and determine anything conclusively.

What convinced me you need not benefit from hirez was doing my own recordings and doing concurrent recording at 48 khz vs 192 khz vs 96 khz. Maybe not to every listener, but to me they all had the same sound. I could see doing 96 khz for a great safety factor, but more than that seems an untenable position to me. Do you have any thoughts on how much above redbook is enough? Or if you benefit at 192 vs 96 khz for example?
 

Rene

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Yes, good things to consider. I first remember bumping into Amir, when he was saying he could ABX some jangling keys of Arny Kruger I think. On the other forum. I too could ABX them in redbook vs hirez. What I was hearing however was the downsampling/upsampling software. When I took the original and did my own down/upsampling with modern higher quality software, I could no longer hear a difference. So comparing the different formats can be a sticky wicket to work with and determine anything conclusively.

What convinced me you need not benefit from hirez was doing my own recordings and doing concurrent recording at 48 khz vs 192 khz vs 96 khz. Maybe not to every listener, but to me they all had the same sound. I could see doing 96 khz for a great safety factor, but more than that seems an untenable position to me. Do you have any thoughts on how much above redbook is enough? Or if you benefit at 192 vs 96 khz for example?

Many thoughts. Back in the days - that would be the 1980s - while working at Lexicon, we had access to many first generation analog tape recordings. Those were our frames of reference when redbook cd was launched. I resisted until I heard a cd release from DMP that convinced me to buy a Philips cd player. I bought the cd and later, when Sony launched the DAT format, I bought the same recording that DMP had released on DAT at 48kHz sampling. I and my colleagues were impressed at how much better the DAT sounded. At first we assumed that the higher sampling rate allowed for a better filter to be implemented, without the extreme attenuation rate needed for a 44.1kHz brickwall filter. But another difference at first eluded us - the DAT release was 20 bits!

Of course, looking back, we were pretty naive. What about the differences in the entire playback architecture?

So to answer more directly, I find 88.2kHz/20bit to be a giant step (easy down conversion to cd). Beyond that, not so much. I believe if the industry had chosen 50kHz (Mitsubishi's digital tape recorder sr) or 64kHz (one of the proposals submitted to the AES working group to be compatible with integer sr conversion to film and tv ), the whole hi-res issue might have been sidestepped or at least delayed.
 

RayDunzl

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My first exposure to digital (1981 or so)was with a Lexicon digital delay (for echo/reverb at the PA).

It had various modulation schemes.

One night at the Tarpon Springs Liquor Lodge, the drummer was doing a time-killing solo, but the dancers were still out on the dance floor dancing, and I ran some of the drums through the Lexicon with attack modifying the delay...

Drums going boing beeyow boooeeemm and other odd sounds.

Dancers melting drunkenly onto the floor...
 

Rene

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My first exposure to digital (1981 or so)was with a Lexicon digital delay (for echo/reverb at the PA).

It had various modulation schemes.

Was that the Prime Time? That product was done by fellow engineer David Dunetz.
 

RayDunzl

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Was that the Prime Time?


Something like this (if not this).

Too long ago and I didn't own it.

Lexicon-PCM-42-Copyright-Vintage-Digital.jpg


https://www.vintagedigital.com.au/effects/lexicon/page/2/
 

S63tu

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Hello everyone!! New member obviously, came from the Hugo 2 thread from HF. Just wanted to join the discussion. I consider myself a music lover, an extremely unskilled and limited audiophile, and a lover of electronics.

I've yet to hear the Hugo 2, but own a mojo. Never heard the OG Hugo either.

I do like the Mojo, sounds good, pretty much like a lot of things I hear. I don't have measurements to add, and a lot of the stuff I see is way over my head.

As someone that recently joined the insanity of the higher end audio world, about 3 years back, I've spent a lot of time, money, and effort to learn a whole lot.

My most important lesson was that of the hype. I've purchased a lot of gear, researched it to the best of my abilities, and although not been disappointed in my purchases, have not been able to hear a lot of what others do. I did love my mojo after a few days, I honestly believed it was better than most things I had heard at the time.

Fast forward to today, where life has kept me from being overly involved with HF, and unfortunately with a lot of my audio toys, and I have a new perspective on things.

For the last couple of weeks, I've done a lot of listening again, lots of a/b testing and have realized how much of an impact some of the audio forums have had on me and what I hear, or thought I've heard. Prime example was earlier today, I was using my HD650'S, which I happen to really enjoy, and was using them straight from my Sony 1z, then with my ALO CDM. I really had to struggle to hear the differences between them, and tbh, it was some of the biggest differences I've heard.

Prior to that, I've been messing around with my mojo, 1z, Cowon S, cayin C5, headstage arrow 5, dx200, and some of my iems. I'd be lying to say if I heard much difference between any of them (minus the iems and headphones) especially if I turned my eq off in the source. The exception being the Ibasso dx200 which I think I can hear the most difference from, not saying good or bad. Flipping between mojo and all these sources, I'd be lying if I said I could hear a difference.

I know chord products are well made, I like their look for some reason, and will have a demo of the Hugo 2. I am fairly certain that I won't hear much of a difference, especially when volume matched.

I'm glad to be a member here, from what I've read, it seems like this place is based on some rational thinking, which I prefer. A blend of measurements and reality.

There are a few things that irk me on the Hugo thread, and chord threads in general, the rabid fan base and the hypocrisy that pops up from time to time with their fans/customers.

I've spent the last two weeks or so reading through the Hugo 2 thread on HF, and saw enough of that nonsense. Really drives me crazy that people can not mention the shortcomings of a Chord product without being maligned by someone there.

I found it quite amusing on one hand, how well chord products measured (with their tests) and how adding an amp is sacrilege due to the added distortion from the additional amp, while a good portion of those people never even tried it. They regurgitate what Rob Watts said about the added distortion, without even listening to it. Then those same people, claim how great Hugo 2 is, due to the posted tests, how much better it is than almost everything else.

Then, when this thread was linked, how immediately it was said that people need to listen to the Hugo 2 before passing judgment...how this was invalidated immediately because the Hugo 2 was not listened to by Amir.

Found that quite amusing. There were a couple of video reviews posted as well, and one or two of them were less than 100% complimentary and immediately dismissed and not taken seriously. One of the videos, which was rather long, about 40 minutes IIRC, the first 20 was spent discussing some of the shortcomings of Hugo 2, while the rest was praising the device, over all the reviewer gave it a very positive review. Unfortunately, the review was honest or appeared to be, but didn't say the Hugo was perfect, therefore, bad review.

Sorry for my rambling on and on, just frustrated from that thread. I know measurements are excellent guidelines, and listening is obviously important. Together, you should be able to educate yourself enough to make some smart purchases...

As far as magazine awards, well, suffice it to say that would never influence my purchase decision.

Thanks for reading and I'm looking forward to reading and learning more while I'm here.

Oh, and don't get me started on cables, high resolution audio, etc... I'm too busy burning in my $2500 iem cables to discuss how much of an impact those things will have on your audio experience.

Last thing, I know it was mentioned but the tap numbers and impedance numbers are off. Hugo 2 has 49,xxx taps, and it's OI is supposed to be much lower, .025 I believe. I think that should be fixed in the op as to not give a bad impression with wrong numbers or information.
 
OP
amirm

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Hello S63tu and welcome to the forum! A great read and nice sentiments within. It is wonderful to see people gathering their own objective data with controlled listening tests and such. It is especially refreshing owners of product having such an approach versus the fanboyism that corrupts so much of the information out there on audio products.

As to your final comment, I corrected the number of taps in my OP. On headphone output impedance, I need to get my hands on itagain to see if it is clipping with 33 ohm load. If it does, then my computation is incorrect. Otherwise, it is accurate. I added a note to this effect.

BTW, I love to measure the Chord Mojo. If you live state side and are willing to loan it to me, drop me a note! :)
 

S63tu

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Thank you for the warm welcome bro!! Yes, I am stateside, Florida to be exact. You are more than welcome to borrow it. I'll shoot you a pm.
 

Tony Hartley

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Just had an absolute masterpiece of an experience.

Foobar2000 WASAPI PUSH on a Windows 10 desktop to play a 24/44.1 FLAC file of Can't You See That She's Mine by The Dave Clark Five through a USB cable to the Chord DAVE.

And it played it fast - making it sound like The Chipmunks.

I don't see how it could be the computer. I assume it must be the Chord DAVE, but how?

I stopped it, tried again, and it played it at normal speed.

Any ideas?
 
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amirm

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Foobar2000 WASAPI PUSH on a Windows 10 desktop to play a 24/44.1 FLAC file of Can't You See That She's Mine by The Dave Clark Five through a USB cable to the Chord DAVE.

And it played it fast - making it sound like The Chipmunks.
I have seen this problem with event driven mode but not push. And I think there it plays too slow. Roon detects this and stops playback with an error.
 

Tony Hartley

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I have been trying to treat this as "black box" - double click on the file, and music pours forth.

I used WASAPI EVENT with the Chord Hugo TT. WASAPI EVENT and WASAPI PUSH both worked and sounded the same.

When I changed to the Chord DAVE, WASAPI EVENT didn't work. No idea whether it was a temporary glitch. But WASAPI PUSH does work, so I have stuck with it.

There have been a number of really weird glitches. The frustration is not having a clue which part of the system is causing them.

Is there an idiots' guide to the whys and wherefores of digital audio?!!!!
 

svart-hvitt

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I have been trying to treat this as "black box" - double click on the file, and music pours forth.

I used WASAPI EVENT with the Chord Hugo TT. WASAPI EVENT and WASAPI PUSH both worked and sounded the same.

When I changed to the Chord DAVE, WASAPI EVENT didn't work. No idea whether it was a temporary glitch. But WASAPI PUSH does work, so I have stuck with it.

There have been a number of really weird glitches. The frustration is not having a clue which part of the system is causing them.

Is there an idiots' guide to the whys and wherefores of digital audio?!!!!

The answer is Mac.
 
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