KRK ROKIT 5 Gen 4 Review (Studio Monitor)

[Frank Dernie]

Yes it is.
Its maybe good enough in the end
but converting a digital signal to analog and back to digital to edit it and then back to analog is exactly like taking a screen shot wit a camera.

Everything Adds noise and distortion in this process
and i'm sure you will agree noise and distortion from (DAC + ADC + DSP + DAC + AMP + Speaker) > (DSP + DAC + AMP + Speaker)

DAC and ADC are probably not level matched at all so right there i can see >12dB dynamic getting lost.


That's surly not the best ADC because Cheap requires compromise.
If you think 5-6 of them don't matter why do we event bother testing and talking about the specs of DACs and ADCs that cost more then this speaker.

 

[Frank Dernie]

If you think 5-6 of them don't matter why do we event bother testing and talking about the specs of DACs and ADCs that cost more then this speaker.

Quite.
It is very stupid.

 

[daftcombo]

If it's so cheap but also good, how is the Genelec 8030C better in a way that justifies the price gap for example?

More hiss?

 

[daftcombo]

these have a optional grill, I mean "defense system" https://www.krkmusic.com/Studio-Monitors/Rokit-G4-Grille-Covers

They don't have very good reviews:
https://www.thomann.de/fr/krk_rp5_g4_grid.htm

Someone says the woofers touch them when played a bit loud.

 

[Lambda]

It is very stupid.

Good argument...

So complex and well explaind it won't fit it in one post?

 

[PeteL]

Yes it is.
Its maybe good enough in the end
but converting a digital signal to analog and back to digital to edit it and then back to analog is exactly like taking a screen shot wit a camera.

Everything Adds noise and distortion in this process
and i'm sure you will agree noise and distortion from (DAC + ADC + DSP + DAC + AMP + Speaker) > (DSP + DAC + AMP + Speaker)

DAC and ADC are probably not level matched at all so right there i can see >12dB dynamic getting lost.


That's surly not the best ADC because Cheap requires compromise.
If you think 5-6 of them don't matter why do we event bother testing and talking about the specs of DACs and ADCs that cost more then this speaker.

As you said EVERYTHING adds noise (and artefacts). the music that comes to your ears was recorded with 50+ ADCs, it may have used about as many analog EQs that created some phase shifts, some mic and mic preamps that each have their noise floor and distortion characteristics. What's one more ADC?

 

[dasdoing]

It's a shame there doesn't seam to be a small monitor to be combined with a subwoofer suited for full volume

 

[Lambda]

As you said EVERYTHING adds noise (and artefacts)

Yes wouldn't you agree?

the music that comes to your ears was recorded with 50+ ADCs,

Some of it has never seen a single ADC and is synthesized.
But whats your point? Music contains/is noise and distortion and therefor it doesn't matter if we add more?
Then why care if the DAC ads some? why care at all?

I will just use the 3,5mm headphone out on my laptop...

There is almost no hiss

So how can a External DAC make any difference?

 

[dominikz]

kernelpanic Yes i can't live with DAC-->ADC/DSP/DAC.
its like taking a screenshot with a camera.

While I liked and was quite amused by this comparison I have to agree that it is not entirely accurate.

Audio equivalent of taking a screenshot with a camera would probably be recording a loudspeaker with a microphone

Video equivalent of additional step of DA/AD conversion in an audio chain would be something like converting from HDMI (digital) to VGA (analog) at same resolution - while it may decrease picture quality somewhat, it will not be anywhere near as severe as capturing the screen with a camera in typical lighting

In the end, with audio it is common that in the same budget the loudspeaker will probably have a few order of magnitudes worse distortions than the electronics (including conversion) - which is why I assume additional conversions are normally acceptable and likely inaudible under blind conditions. It is however probably a good idea to take care about gain staging to to minimize any potential audible artifacts.

EDIT: Regarding:

If you think 5-6 of them don't matter why do we event bother testing and talking about the specs of DACs and ADCs that cost more then this speaker.

There could be many reasons why one might buy a better measuring component that are not necessarily related to audibility at all:

• Audio production use - more clean headroom needed for AD/DA due to suboptimal gain staging, multiple-stage conversions, etc...
• Use as part of a measurement rig
• Peace of mind - go so far over audibility thresholds that you don't have to worry if it is a bottleneck or not
• Appreciation for good engineering and SOTA technology
• Bragging rights
• Aesthetics
• ...

All that being said - I would also prefer to have digital input to DSP-enabled powered speakers - it is tidier and IMHO one less thing to worry about that way

 

[PeteL]

Yes wouldn't you agree?


But whats your point? Music contains/is noise and distortion and therefor it doesn't matter if we add more?
Then why care if the DAC ads some? why care at all?

I will just use the 3,5mm headphone out on my laptop...

I already told you I agree, the point should always be a cost vs benefit ratio, For an analog source X, if it's represented with more measurable fidelity by A-converting it in the digital domain, processing it, and converting it back to analog, than B by doing none of that, A wins. simple as that. There are many speakers amps with DSP too now than digitize everything, and it's a good thing for music reproduction. Mechanical and Physical limits is the bottleneck of measurable fidelity, you fix that, it trumps the rest.

 

[PeteL]

Audio equivalent of taking a screenshot with a camera would probably be recording a loudspeaker with a microphone

Still, to this day that's how speakers are measured...

 

[dominikz]

Still, to this day that's how speakers are measured...

Sure - not arguing with that.
But we rarely reproduce recordings of music recorded in this way over another set of speakers for our music enjoyment - if we do so, we notice they sound quite audibly different vs original recordings

That was my point - a parallel to the 'screenshot with camera' comparison.

 

[Lambda]

Video equivalent of additional step of DA/AD conversion in an audio chain would be something like converting from HDMI (digital) to VGA (analog) at same resolution - while it may decrease picture quality somewhat, it will not be anywhere near as severe as capturing the screen with a camera in typical lighting

Your Right that's a better comparison
And i completely don't understand why we still have PCs with VGA today

Mechanical and Physical limits is the bottleneck of measurable fidelity, you fix that, it trumps the rest.

So a 64kbit MP3 is less degrading to the sound then recording the best speaker with the best microphone in a normal room...

But you don't need the excellent speakers to hear the difference!?
So maybe its not as easy as "there is a me Mechanical bottleneck so the rest is completely insignificant"

 

[PeteL]

Your Right that's a better comparison
And i completely don't understand why we still have PCs with VGA today


So a 64kbit MP3 is less degrading to the sound then recording the best speaker with the best microphone in a normal room...

But you don't need the excellent speakers to hear the difference!?
So maybe its not as easy as "there is a me Mechanical bottleneck so the rest is completely insignificant"

As I said, that's ideological, taking a worst case scenario to prove a point is not what objectivity and science is about. I talked about cost vs benefit ratio, AND you misquoted me. never said "the rest is completely insignificant" I said "it trumps the rest". Does not mean the same thing.

 

[dasdoing]

there is not a single logic motivation to discuss the conversion in this context since there is no option to bypass it.

look a the result and compare it to their analog speaker (classic) and other analogs in the same price range.

I am sure the DSP is not there for the limited EQ only. afaik a cheap class D amp can't be made with all analog circuits

 

[Lambda]

I think science is about objectivity and holds true under worst case scenario. The Art of finding a cost vs benefit ratio is engineering

Talking about Cost benefit, Getting rid of the ADC will save cost. but some user won't like it so they loos profit by selling less.
So they need to have a switch and both inputs... this will add maybe like 5€ to the BOM cost so they need to sell them for 10€ more

So the Average Joe who connects them to a PC anyways now pays 20€ more but he saves ~100€ because now he don't need to have a DAC

 

[PeteL]

I think science is about objectivity and holds true under worst case scenario. The Art of finding a cost vs benefit ratio is engineering

Talking about Cost benefit, Getting rid of the ADC will save cost. but some user won't like it so they loos profit by selling less.
So they need to have a switch and both inputs... this will add maybe like 5€ to the BOM cost so they need to sell them for 10€ more

So the Average Joe who connects them to a PC anyways now pays 20€ more but he saves ~100€ because now he don't need to have a DAC

KRK uses regular distribution model. Typically a 5 euro BOM increase translate to about 4 to 6 times MSRP increase, to make it viable. Now science may agree that worst case scenario hold true, but this speaker or other doesn't convert to 64 kbps so it's not a scenario at all here. Normally when you are at prototype stage you HAVE to do the cost reduction exercice, if not you'd be out of the market fast, and you fix a MSRP, then a list of Must have, and nice to have, and start scratching the nice to have until you reach the price point. In the BOM, you start up on the highest cost drivers, and go down and prioritize according to the cost vs benefit ratio. You'd be surprised where connectors sit on this list of what drives the cost. Very high up on the list. Now, let's say a digital input is nice to have. Now, which one. USB? now you don't only need a connector, you'll need worst case a USB receiver chip or a XMOS type microcontroller. Those are also quite high up on the list. Decisions. and then maybe, I'm not saying you are fully wrong you know, yes, you ask yourself "who's the average Joe" and sure, If their market research found that more people would rather have a digital in than an analog in, they'd do it. Look like in this case they assessed that more people would use an analog input. Their conclusion may be right or wrong but they made this exercise.

 

[Xyrium]

I'll admit that I wish these fared better in the THD measurements, but for the price, not so horrible! Bring on the compact KRK 3 ways!

 

[amirm]

That would be nice, but i think individual distortion orders should still be shown, as diffrent order distortions have diffrent audibility

That would make the graph impossible to read then. It would be 10 traces on top of each other.

 

[Coffee_fan]

Hey Amir, I like the videos, they add spice ;-).