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RF Interference in Speaker Cables??? (video)

Plcamp

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The good thing about this speaker cables nonsense is that it allows one to quickly segregate the competent from the not among the various YouTube “audiophiles”.
 

mansr

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I have some older banana plugs with some measuring cords running to a Fluke for measuring DC values of a specific product (not audio) and have found that you can get substantially different voltages (and there isn't even a load by the Fluke) up to 50%.
This is annoying when you are measuring small voltage differences. Tapping or rotating the banana plug makes it go away.
Replacing it or (for temp solution) flooding it with deoxit solves the issue.
Banana plugs can be a crapshoot.
I have a bunch of test leads with these Hirschmann (now SKS) banana plugs. They seem quite reliable.

934100701.png
 

Wombat

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The good thing about this speaker cables nonsense is that it allows one to quickly segregate the competent from the not among the various YouTube “audiophiles”.

And in audio forums.
 

solderdude

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I have a bunch of test leads with these Hirschmann (now SKS) banana plugs. They seem quite reliable.

934100701.png

Here's the picture of the actual offending connectors ...
apeshit banana.jpg

You might recognize them. ;)

Rotating and deoxidizing the 'rotating' part helps for a while.
 

mansr

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Here's the picture of the actual offending connectors ...
View attachment 114364
You might recognize them. ;)

Rotating and deoxidizing the 'rotating' part helps for a while.
Are those (worn-off) gold or nickel plated? Hard to tell in your photo. Also, the springy bits look somewhat unsprung compared to mine. Maybe it's time to replace them.
 

ctrl

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Anyone ever measure the effectiveness of all the various speaker cables connectors?
In the "Different Binding Posts - is it audible? " thread I tried to cover the most extreme cases.

As the "best" possible "binding post", luster terminals were investigated. Correctly executed, the cable ends touch each other (unlike with tube connectors ;)).
And as "worst case" simply iron nails were used as BP.

All BPs to be purchased should therefore be between these two extremes.


so.... tube connectors then?;)

You mean this ironically, but it won't be long before there is a Youtube video extolling the benefits of special, particularly expensive binding posts that produce extremely low PIM (passive intermodulation distortion) - thanks @amm for the links.

To make it clear that such influences do not play a decisive role in binding posts for loudspeakers, I have added IMD measurements to my binding posts thread as a precaution ;)
 
D

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Here's the picture of the actual offending connectors ...
View attachment 114364
You might recognize them. ;)

Rotating and deoxidizing the 'rotating' part helps for a while.
Those are ready for the round file. Test leads are one of those items that needs changing more often than most folks do. (I'm guilty of this myself.)
Here in the US we have some nice options from companies like probemaster.
https://probemaster.com/

Dave.
 

ta240

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solderdude

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Are those (worn-off) gold or nickel plated? Hard to tell in your photo. Also, the springy bits look somewhat unsprung compared to mine. Maybe it's time to replace them.

Heavily used nickel plated :confused:
Have been using another test cable. Still had it in a drawer.
 

howard416

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In case of the AHB-2, it may not be the connector that causes the distortion. It is more likely to be the PCB routing to the connector that adds distortion.

I've only ever had connectors cause distortion when they don't make good contact. I've seen that quite a bit with banana connectors, actually. I use some low-cost banana jacks for prototypes and they do sometimes oxidize enough that the distortion rises by as much as 20 dB. I then grumble, twist the banana plugs in their sockets, and remeasure. That said, I'm building amps at the same performance level as the AHB-2, so these things start to matter.
I've never seen a speakON connector cause distortion.

I don't know the specific distortion mechanism in crappy connectors, but I suspect it has to do with the spreading resistance from a limited number of good connection points to the connector terminal or wire.

Tom
Gold-to-gold is a good way to prevent nuisance contact issues. Or tin-to-tin if you have lots of stable, long-term compressive pre-load (terminal strips with SEMS washers under the screws and well-crimped ring terminals, etc.). But not gold-to-tin.

Interestingly, speakON connectors tend to use silver contact platings instead of gold for some reason.
 
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fmplayer

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His video consists of him going through websites of snake oil cable companies and reading their marketing fluff, then arrogantly claiming their was a difference because the marketing said so.

Brilliant.

EDIT: Also nice touch calling science that doesn't agree with his snake oil cables... "Flat Earthers?"
Hang'on a mo' ... Did you notice the reals of cables in front of the guy. Maybe he wanted to sell them
 

Longshan

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I don't know how I got dragged into this :) but thought I do a video showing the proper effects of RF on speaker cables and what it takes to demonstrate audibility. I thought it needed to be done even though I did not want to engage in any tit for tat type of videos.


Thank you for making a great video.
 

tomchr

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Interestingly, speakON connectors tend to use silver contact platings instead of gold for some reason.
Connectors with silver contacts can be designed to be self-cleaning (i.e. clean themselves on connect/disconnect). Silver can handle higher currents than gold, which is important if you want the connector to survive hot-swapping. Gold also tends to wear off with repeated connect/disconnect cycles.

Tom
 

DonH56

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And silver is more conductive than gold (or copper)... IIRC, silver oxide is also conductive, whereas copper oxide is not. Gold effectively does not oxide but as @tomchr said it is usually plated so thin that it quickly wears off. Gold is usually applied over silver or nickel to provide a hard surface beneath; it is mostly (perhaps exclusively) the audio world that gold-plates directly on copper IME.
 

tomchr

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Chromium is often used as an adhesion layer for gold as well. It's hard to make gold stick to anything.

Tom
 

paddycrow

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And silver is more conductive than gold (or copper)... IIRC, silver oxide is also conductive, whereas copper oxide is not. Gold effectively does not oxide but as @tomchr said it is usually plated so thin that it quickly wears off. Gold is usually applied over silver or nickel to provide a hard surface beneath; it is mostly (perhaps exclusively) the audio world that gold-plates directly on copper IME.

Automotive uses a fair amount of gold, believe it or not. It has more to do with galvanic corrosion, though. From what I recall, gold and silver are OK with each other, but tin should not be mixed.
 

chris719

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And silver is more conductive than gold (or copper)... IIRC, silver oxide is also conductive, whereas copper oxide is not. Gold effectively does not oxide but as @tomchr said it is usually plated so thin that it quickly wears off. Gold is usually applied over silver or nickel to provide a hard surface beneath; it is mostly (perhaps exclusively) the audio world that gold-plates directly on copper IME.

Silver oxide is very conductive, but sulfide is less, I think.
 

DonH56

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Automotive uses a fair amount of gold, believe it or not. It has more to do with galvanic corrosion, though. From what I recall, gold and silver are OK with each other, but tin should not be mixed.

Yes to both. ENIG is popular.

Silver oxide is very conductive, but sulfide is less, I think.

Agreed. Keep rubber away from your cables. :) Actually, using rubber bands on silver such as serving dishes, flatware, or musical instruments like trumpets (my fav!) can cause essentially permanent black bands. Sulphur (e.g. in rubber bands) binds very tightly with silver.
 

howard416

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And silver is more conductive than gold (or copper)... IIRC, silver oxide is also conductive, whereas copper oxide is not.
Silver is slightly more conductive than gold, but tarnishes (sulfide not oxide), so I give the advantage to gold in terms of contact resistance.

https://www.harting.com/sites/defau...erial-options-for-electronic-connectors_0.pdf
In case of very low currents or voltages, the silver sulfide layer cannot be electrically broken down, so that small changes to the transmitted signal will be encountered. As a result, silver is mainly used for high-current contacts. (Ed: this statement is not quantified in any way; is it 1 A needed to do this? 5 A? 10 A?)
 
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