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Denon AVR-X8500H AVR Review

peng

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the combo pc + dac + marantz stages sounds much louder than if I use it connected to the 8500, could the preout outputs be failing?

What do you mean by combo pc+dac+marantz stage? Was the 8500 used in that case? If the pre outs are failing, you will know for sure I don' think so. Remember one thing, that has been said many times but people seem to keep forgetting, that is, you can't go by the volume position. Volume at 70 can be quieter than volume at 60, because it depends on the input signal strength, and the gain of the devices in the signal chain.

For example, if the MA23 has a much higher gain than the Denon's internal amps, then even though it is only rated 50 W, at the same volume position it could sound much louder than using just the Denon's internal amps. It does not mean the MA23 is more powerful, it is in fact much less powerful. I don't know what the M23's gain really is, I am making it up just as an example to explain why you can't go by the volume position unless the devices being compared have the same gain, and using exactly the same input signal.
 

Anterantz

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What do you mean by combo pc+dac+marantz stage? Was the 8500 used in that case? If the pre outs are failing, you will know for sure I don' think so. Remember one thing, that has been said many times but people seem to keep forgetting, that is, you can't go by the volume position. Volume at 70 can be quieter than volume at 60, because it depends on the input signal strength, and the gain of the devices in the signal chain.

For example, if the MA23 has a much higher gain than the Denon's internal amps, then even though it is only rated 50 W, at the same volume position it could sound much louder than using just the Denon's internal amps. It does not mean the MA23 is more powerful, it is in fact much less powerful. I don't know what the M23's gain really is, I am making it up just as an example to explain why you can't go by the volume position unless the devices being compared have the same gain, and using exactly the same input signal.
Hi Peng I bought these stages because I had heard them and they improved the stereo of the 8500 and when connecting them by preout front audyssey I left them at 0.0db but I noticed that even going up to 70 in the volume I barely got bass in my monitors and yesterday I did a test Leave the 8500 out of the equation and connect the monitors to the ma23 from there to the dac nuprime and from this to the pc to reproduce tidal and the change is brutal to 1/4 of the volume of tidal and it moves the monitors left over giving a controlled bass and clean and a very natural middle zone and I wonder why so much difference between both options? Could the previous output of the 8500 be giving less volts?
 

peng

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Hi Peng I bought these stages because I had heard them and they improved the stereo of the 8500 and when connecting them by preout front audyssey I left them at 0.0db but I noticed that even going up to 70 in the volume I barely got bass in my monitors and yesterday I did a test Leave the 8500 out of the equation and connect the monitors to the ma23 from there to the dac nuprime and from this to the pc to reproduce tidal and the change is brutal to 1/4 of the volume of tidal and it moves the monitors left over giving a controlled bass and clean and a very natural middle zone and I wonder why so much difference between both options? Could the previous output of the 8500 be giving less volts?

To compare the MA23 with the 8500's amps, you should connect the nu prime dac's analog output to the 8500's analog input and use pure direct mode. In both cases, you should still use the PC will the Nu prime.

Try that and let me know if that would sound more similar to what you are hearing using the nu prime dac direct to the MA23.
 

Anterantz

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To compare the MA23 with the 8500's amps, you should connect the nu prime dac's analog output to the 8500's analog input and use pure direct mode. In both cases, you should still use the PC will the Nu prime.

Try that and let me know if that would sound more similar to what you are hearing using the nu prime dac direct to the MA23.
Hello I don't know if I understood you correctly but when I connect the ma-23 to the preout front outputs and put pure direct and for my ears little difference to the pure direct of the internal amplifiers of the 8500 where a better sound is noticeable is pc + dac nuprime + ma -23 the only disadvantage is that in this way I cannot use audyssey and in my living room it helps me a lot! The problem is that something happens when I connect it to the 8500 that loses the punch of the ma-23 and if I use them externally they sound great.
 

Anterantz

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Hello, I already did a hardreset and calibrated again with the ma-23 and the bass returned but I have been playing with removing or putting the midrange compensation and I do not notice differences in the music if I activate it or deactivate it ... this should not if so, no? My phone is not making the app work well?
 

peng

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Hello I don't know if I understood you correctly but when I connect the ma-23 to the preout front outputs and put pure direct and for my ears little difference to the pure direct of the internal amplifiers of the 8500 where a better sound is noticeable is pc + dac nuprime + ma -23 the only disadvantage is that in this way I cannot use audyssey and in my living room it helps me a lot! The problem is that something happens when I connect it to the 8500 that loses the punch of the ma-23 and if I use them externally they sound great.

What I mean is, if you play your music this way:

Music play on PC, PC output to Nuprime DAC input, then Numprime DAC output to the MA23, your PC, or the DAC is doing the volume control

Now if you play the music the other way:

Music play on X8500H with its own internal amps, then the X8500H is control the volume.

So you can see that it is not an apples to apples but oranges to apples comparison, to compare the X8500H amps to the MA23 amps in a fair and real sense, you have to have everything exactly the same, leaving only the power amps inside the Denon, and the MA23 as the difference.

That's why I suggested you should do it this way:

A) When using the Denon's own amp:

you play music with your PC, output from PC to input of the Numprime, then output of the Numprime to the Denon's analog input, select direct or pure direct so it bypasses the Denon's own ADC/DAC and go directly through the preamp volume control and then to the power amp.

B) When using the MA23,

you must do the same, that is, play music with your PC, output of PC to input of Numprime, then output of the Numprime to the MA23.

You can see that the signal path A) and B) are the same, and you will be effectively comparing:

Denon's preamp+power amp to the Numprime preamp+MA23 power amp. And you only then have to make sure you level match the two, so that one way is not louder than the other, otherwise the louder one will most likely sound "better" to you, especially the bass.

If you do it like that you will not lose the bass when the Denon amps are used, guarantee!!

I hope this is clear, if not, you need to use a better translator from you language to English.:)
 

peng

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Hello, I already did a hardreset and calibrated again with the ma-23 and the bass returned but I have been playing with removing or putting the midrange compensation and I do not notice differences in the music if I activate it or deactivate it ... this should not if so, no? My phone is not making the app work well?

For the changes you made to take effect, you must send the new file to the AVR. If not, as you mentioned, may be the app on you phone did not work well and might not have send everything to the AVR. In that case, you can try sending it again, but before you send, always double check to make sure the changes you made are there, saved in a different name and double check you are sending the one with the changes, that's why you should always save the file with any changes in a different name so you can call it up and then send the right one.

If everything is done right and you still can't hear a difference, it is quite possible because the midrange compensation is not big dip at around 2 kHz, if I remember right it is about 2-3 dB. It obviously would depend on the kind of music too, as it only affects the around 2 kHz point, a very narrow band that's why its call a "notch" filter. I am sure a lot of users don't even know its there.
 

Thunder22

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Ok, so I have set up the X8500x, in a basic sense. So far so good. The first thing I noticed was how the top cover is completely louvered for heat release. I've never seen an AVC top this open. My cats are going to love it! I guess all the talk about these puppies running warm is true. I did think it would be larger/heavier though. I think my old SR-18 is as large and that's only 5.1.

Excited to learn all it can do!
 

Andysu

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Replacement video board for Denon AVC-X8500H

Denon AVC-X8500H HDMI video board almost removed it except for the black connectors attached to small PCB board making it awkward to remove as its just two boards connecting to the HDMI video board.

Is the black plastic connector soldered on? To removing it? I don't think so it is rather tightly fitted so must come undone.

Do they just un attach by placing fingers around the board and wiggling it gently so it comes off. (and with replacing it just line it up as it's just pins connecting to the black plastic connector)
150936942_10158940370910149_9183262061463816991_o.jpg
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151053966_10158940359995149_3022925630990126276_o.jpg


Black connector it's clearly no de-soldering required here this small PCB board should unattach.

151035643_10158940397555149_4625001766997144924_o.jpg
151521134_10158940397820149_6672315702204462180_o.jpg
 
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Andysu

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HDMI video board removed. The black connectors have a sleeve that slips over the one attached on the HDMI video board and then the pins line up and just press it firmly to reconnect.

Next up is fitting the new HDMI video board and reconnecting all the ribbon wire connectors and leads and screwing it all back down with lid attached and connecting the HDMI cables back up and switching on the AVR.

150959372_10158940437720149_596211943438916300_o.jpg
150731700_10158940437780149_4829417571487179499_o.jpg
150885972_10158940437820149_3202525063950471234_o.jpg
 

Anterantz

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HDMI video board removed. The black connectors have a sleeve that slips over the one attached on the HDMI video board and then the pins line up and just press it firmly to reconnect.

Next up is fitting the new HDMI video board and reconnecting all the ribbon wire connectors and leads and screwing it all back down with lid attached and connecting the HDMI cables back up and switching on the AVR.

View attachment 113183View attachment 113184View attachment 113185
did you see the dac akm 4490?
 

Thunder22

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I noticed that after running Audyssey on the X8500h, the sound was terrible. It's hard to describe but it felt like my ears were bleeding. This happened even with the volume low and through multiple sources. I then purchased the app and ran Audyssey through my phone. This did the trick. I can listen to it again. However I did not tweak anymore than just running the calibration sequence. This leads to a couple questions...

Is the Audyssey app that much better than the the built in? I will probably run it again through the receiver to see what's up.
Has anyone else experienced high frequencies from the Denon X8500h that make you feel sick?
 

Benedium

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Not sure if you did this list of actions...
-Change crossover to 60hz/80hz/100hz depending on speaker size
-Turn off Midrange Compensation for all speakers
-Reduce MultiEQ Filter Frequency Range to 359hz for Fronts, 370hz for Center and 270hz for Surrounds. Selected to place 80hz (crossover) point at 0db line in After curve. Note that 0db is also where the default subwoofer curve is at. Subwoofer and speakers sound better integrated like this.
-Turn on Dyn. Eq.
- Get out of calibration editor screen
- click send file button on top and follow instructions to select device and file to send.

After file has been sent, go to avr remote control under audio- audyssey-Ref Lvl Offset and select 0db, 5db, 10db or 15db depending on the recording level of the content. Just adjust by ear for each source. Usually, I shuttle between 5db or 10 db.

Also for spotify, turn off Restorer under audio settings. For tv, can also try turning off Speaker Virtualizer and Center Spread if u see it somewhere in the setup menus. This is based on my x3600h. Not sure if it's the same for x8500h. I could be wrong but no harm trying haha.
 
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peng

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Is the Audyssey app that much better than the the built in? I will probably run it again through the receiver to see what's up.
Has anyone else experienced high frequencies from the Denon X8500h that make you feel sick?

It is better only because you can do the tweaks, disabled MRC, select roll off curve etc., otherwise no, you should get practically the same results either way after the first run (i.e. without manual tweaks).
 

Dj7675

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I noticed that after running Audyssey on the X8500h, the sound was terrible. It's hard to describe but it felt like my ears were bleeding. This happened even with the volume low and through multiple sources. I then purchased the app and ran Audyssey through my phone. This did the trick. I can listen to it again. However I did not tweak anymore than just running the calibration sequence. This leads to a couple questions...

Is the Audyssey app that much better than the the built in? I will probably run it again through the receiver to see what's up.
Has anyone else experienced high frequencies from the Denon X8500h that make you feel sick?
Do you have any measurement equipment like a laptop/UMIK1/REW. IMO the best thing I ever learned how to do was take in room measurements. Situations like this really makes you want to know what is going on. If you use the app, even the before measurements and after projections are helpful, so definitely use the app.
 

Thunder22

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Thanks for the quick responses. I am guessing during the original calibration something went wrong. I do find it slightly fatiguing still and will be trying some of Benedium's advice. I'll let you guys know how it goes. Currently I do not have a laptop/UMIK1/REW setup, but hopefully I will fall down that rabbit hole someday.

Yesterday I read @pengs "The Audyssey multieq editor app users thread (with facts and tips)" in it's entirety and found it to be super informative and well done. Thank you Peng!




 

Anterantz

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Has anyone heard this amp? Is it worth it to feed a frontal trio? Or the internal amps are better? Greetings
 

Benedium

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Thanks for the quick responses. I am guessing during the original calibration something went wrong. I do find it slightly fatiguing still and will be trying some of Benedium's advice. I'll let you guys know how it goes. Currently I do not have a laptop/UMIK1/REW setup, but hopefully I will fall down that rabbit hole someday.

Yesterday I read @pengs "The Audyssey multieq editor app users thread (with facts and tips)" in it's entirety and found it to be super informative and well done. Thank you Peng!

Also you may want to try Pure or Direct mode to hear what the x8500h amp sounds like unprocessed just for comparison.

I usually do that to check and make sure any changes are improving sound quality and not making it worse. I'm still making adjustments and learning.

The filter freq. range slider is the easiest and most fun to make changes and hear differences. Kinda fun, although more caveman than 'science' heheh.

Oh and do remember to go back into setup menu to re-enter your preferred ref lvl offset. It reverts to 0db every time you send a new calibration file.
 
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