Covid-19 and Vitamin D

[JeffS7444]

The problem is that the general medical consensus is that 400 ius a day is sufficient, and multivitamins have very few like 200 ius. This is almost nothing. Recent studies suggest taking by the thousands a day to increase the concentration in the blood significantly.

Let me ask you this: Even before becoming aware of those studies, were you inclined to believe in the value of vitamin supplements?

 

[617]

I'm generally not into dietary supplements but I've been taking high dose (2000 IU) D3 for a while now after my blood levels came back very low. Seems like a low risk high reward type thing.

 

[Matias]

Let me ask you this: Even before becoming aware of those studies, were you inclined to believe in the value of vitamin supplements?

I was not supplementing with vitamins before Covid, and these studies have made me consider and I started taking vitamins D and C only.
So I have no bias of wanting them to work. This is not about me, but about the papers and how governments have been ignoring them.

 

[Matias]

Seems like a low risk high reward type thing.

Exactly! That is the one of the points in the first article/rant: low cost, high availability, low risk, high reward, and backed by dozens of studies. So why do the governments still ignore it? I don't understand.

 

[617]

Exactly! That is the one of the points in the first article/rant: low cost, high availability, low risk, high reward, and backed by dozens of studies. So why do the governments still ignore it? I don't understand.

Weak and dead people are easy to govern I guess

 

[escape2]

Seems like a low risk high reward type thing.

Regarding low risk, I think it really depends on your current health and any underlying conditions, so if you do take D3 supplements, you should probably talk to your doctor to determine the appropriate amount and monitor with blood tests.

I'm sure there are people out there who will read these studies or some random Facebook tidbit or link, and will start taking large amounts of vitamin D that could potentially solve one problem while causing several others:

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/vitamin-d-side-effects

Maybe that is why we shouldn't blindly advocate that everyone starts loading up on vitamin D, alas, given the current pandemic, I agree there is something to be said about being well aware of your vitamin D levels and taking corrective action as needed.

 

[CtheArgie]

So you have not read the papers, dismiss them as probably both inadequately designed and controlled, classify it as "anecdotal" and make a funny comparison?

If more people react like that, I guess this explains how a year has passed with thousands people dying and dozens of studies are still being ignored.

Again, many of the papers are peer reviewed, with control groups and statistically valid. This is not "guessing".

Ok, I looked at the first one, Kauffman. It is retrospective. Very limited value. Pick for me the prospective, well designed with adequate controls, sufficient size, appropriate duration and well done statistics. Show me that one and we will talk. You seem to know them.

 

[CtheArgie]

It’s well documented.
I am an MD.

So what? Show me the “well documented ones”.

 

[CtheArgie]

Weak and dead people are easy to govern I guess

Conspiracies are better. Let’s call this one D-Non.

 

[Matias]

Ok, I looked at the first one, Kauffman. It is retrospective. Very limited value. Pick for me the prospective, well designed with adequate controls, sufficient size, appropriate duration and well done statistics. Show me that one and we will talk. You seem to know them.

How about direct treatment against control group?

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3771318#

 

[CtheArgie]

How about direct treatment against control group?

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3771318#

Thanks! I’ve been to that hospital many times. It was built for the Olympics. It’s over the sea. Best views in Barcelona! It is not an academic hospital but that is not critical.

OK, just read the study design section in methods of the paper. This is interesting but definitely not definitive. “Prospective, observational, non selective...” Not placebo controlled or blind. A rather mediocre design. Sorry.

 

[Longshan]

This most recent study isn't a very good one; it wasn't even properly randomized.

Their analysis is missing 20% of the sample info due to lack of data on Vitamin D status amongst participants.

Differences in admission protocols are simply ignored.

These are just a few of the myriad problems with this study that make it pretty useless.

It's a textbook case in how to do poor research.

 

[CtheArgie]

This most recent study isn't a very good one; it wasn't even properly randomized.

Their analysis is missing 20% of the sample info due to lack of data on Vitamin D status amongst participants.

Differences in admission protocols are simply ignored.

These are just a few of the myriad problems with this study that make it pretty useless.

It's a textbook case in how to do poor research.

You were more direct than me. Thanks.

 

[restorer-john]

Here in Australia, we just get out Vitamin D at the beach.

 

[CtheArgie]

Here in Australia, we just get out Vitamin D at the beach.

True dat. It even comes with a nice slice of melanoma and other skin growths.

 

[Longshan]

You were more direct than me. Thanks.

This is the kind of stuff that makes me even more grumpy than the continued existence of Monster Cables.™

 

[Longshan]

Here in Australia, we just get out Vitamin D at the beach.

It's winter here in Canada.

Don't get cocky, kid.

 

[CtheArgie]

This is the kind of stuff that makes me even more grumpy than the continued existence of Monster Cables.™

The funny thing is that members are neurotic about audio science and forget science for everything else. There see to be a discussion about this in some other sub forum here.

 

[BostonJack]

I'm neutral as to whether these studies are sufficient to demonstrate a dramatic effect of vitamin D on covid-19 infections.
Just as a data point, my physician put me on 5 weeks of 50k units once per week followed by 2,000 units per day "for the rest of my life" after I had a blood screen that showed low levels of vitamin D.
Those 50,000 unit pills were by prescription here in good ol' USA. I believe there are toxicity issues with high-dose vitamin D.

 

[Matias]

Fine, so there are flaws in the study.

I am no researcher but from what I have read, why don't they take the thousands of people coming into hospitals testing positive each day, enroll them into the study, separate them by what appears to be the most common biases (age, sex, even body mass index and skin color), give 1/3 placebo, 1/3 vitamin D3, 1/3 leave alone as control group. A couple of months later measure the results and publish.

Sounds doable to me, specially in such a large scale crisis. Since there is little financial incentive for big pharma to test this, again, why are governments ignoring these strong hints?