Good way to stream Amazon Music HD to DAC

[watchnerd]

Gah I already give Amazon enough money.

I don't want to give them more....

 

[hmscott]

Check this Reddit post for more details. Amazon has also announced this upgrade via emails sent to active AMHD accounts recently:

I don't have an Amazon FireStick, and often Amazon Music HD sounds as good or even better than Tidal, but it's the rare exception when it does, and that is why I use AMHD as a backup to primary Tidal Hifi - MQA Masters.

For example, I've been collecting Tidal MQA 352.8khz tracks / Albums and the same Album / Track on Amazon says "UltraHD" - highest resolution Amazon offers - and if you click on the song's UltraHD label it tells you the Native hardware resolution and source resolution, in this case it is 44.1khz. And, I can hear a definite difference between the 44.1khz UltraHD track on Amazon Music HD version...

Spoiler: image

...and the Tidal 382.8khz Master:

Spoiler: image

With the Tidal version - which I was listening to last night over and over as part of this Playlist:
https://tidal.com/browse/playlist/ce4bdd94-24e1-410f-bc72-6ac77cd949f9

and, several times again now, comparing with the Amazon Music HD UltraHD version (44.1khz FLAC), the very audible breathing stops which were actually a bit annoying in the Tidal playback were barely noticeable in the AMHD playback.

The sharp and resounding drum (?) echoes off the walls and sounds as a grand open space in the Tidal version, in the AMHD version it sounds flat and unimpressive.

This is one of those times where AMHD's FLAC offering pales in comparison to the Tidal track and album as MQA Master. It is a good example of the differences, please check it out for yourselves:

European tour - Nordic Brass Ensemble
Suite Terpsichore: I. Intro & Gavotte
https://music.amazon.com/albums/B01J9H1S14?trackAsin=B01J9GYXM6
https://tidal.com/browse/track/63237153

You will need to use the Amazon Music HD app and the Tidal app to get the highest resolution playback. And, a DAC with MQA unfolding support for the full resolution playback of the Tidal track. On AMHD app disable "Volume normalization" and enable "Allow Exclusive mode" - same on Tidal app + set the source to specific (not default) and "more settings" enable all 3 options - "Exclusive", "Force", "MQA Passthrough".

Enjoy

 

[hmscott]

Gah I already give Amazon enough money.

I don't want to give them more....

As an annual payment it's not bad at $129 total...a bit more than the Tidal Hifi (Bestbuy) Annual of $99 (you need to be viewing that link while logged in to your Bestbuy account).

 

[Bamyasi]

Not sure why you would post about TIDAL in reply to a specifically question about hardware suitable for Amazon Music streaming.

 

[hmscott]

Not sure why you would post about TIDAL in reply to a specifically question about hardware suitable for Amazon Music streaming.

Why go through all that work to pay more and get worse sound with Amazon Music HD when Tidal costs less and sounds better?

You don't want to learn about better alternatives? Do you want to remain clueless in the dark or would you like to learn from others experience, with examples, so you can hear for yourself? Isn't that why we are here asking and answering questions?, to learn from others experience - perhaps someone that has been in that very same position and with hindsight we can offer suggestions to others to save money and to have better listening experiences.

Also, if you are looking for hardware, now's the time to know what to look for. If you want to have the option for MQA decoding then it's good to know there are audible benefits to the search for hardware with support for MQA.

Why work so hard to ignore reality now only to wake up later owning the wrong stuff?

@marco80 - I hope the information I provide can help you in some way.

Hi there!

So far Amazon Music HD is the streaming service where I can find the best value for what they charge for their HD service. They really have pretty much any album I can think of and the quality seems really good too.

The only problem I have with it is how to stream it as they don't have an open API. Usually I use a Raspberry Pi where I run volumio. Right now I'm using a HifiBerry DAC+ but I've just ordered a Topping E30 DAC which hopefully will arrive soon.

Currently the only way I can stream is from my iPhone/iPad or Mac to the raspberry via Airplay. Or from the Mac via USB of course but that's not what I want to do usually because where the DAC is placed isn't where my Mac is. And I'm lazy so being able to select the next album with the iPhone over a convenient interface while sitting on the couch would be nice!

Is there a good solution to this yet? The only stuff I've seen are commercial solutions like Bluesound node 2i but that's not where I want to go. I mean maybe Airplay isn't the worst solution but I think the higher bitrates won't make it there but at least CD quality should be fine? I'm just worried there's too much stuff going on in between that might impact sound quality :/

Thanks for any ideas!

Marco

Yup, your desktop DAC locks you to output there - or within reach of an RCA (or XLR) cable to drive a Headphone Amp near a seating position, probably better to have the DAC and AMP where you are sitting for ease of use.

The point of a DAC / AMP system is to use the output right there at the physical location where you are listening.

You could then re-digitize the output to Bluetooth through a BT transmitter and bind to that with your handheld device(s), but you could skip the DAC altogether and go direct to BT transmitter out of your desktop Mac or PC.

If you are going to use Streaming Services like AMHD then there's really no reason to route from your desktop to mobile, simply load the Streaming Service App on your handheld device and directly use the audio output of the mobile device or connect a portable USB DAC/AMP to get higher power to drive IEMs / headphones to provide High Fidelity audio on the go.

Amazon Music HD has apps for Windows, iOS, Android, Amazon Fire devices, without too much trouble you can listen on pretty much everything, same for Tidal - except for unfolding MQA Masters. But FLAC files on both are available via their own respective apps on numerous OS's.

To get the best sound you will want to feed the output of the DAC into a Headphone AMP of some kind.

A portable DAC/AMP like a FiiO BTR5, BTR3k or even simpler a Hidizs S9 can be connected to your Phone or Android Device - or iOS with a OTG cable. You can bring the DAC/AMP with you to whatever device you are using, running the AMHD / Tidal apps.

I also use a DAP - FiiO M15 running the Android AMHD / Tidal apps, that way I have mobile and desktop covered - Topping D90 MQA + Topping A90 - right now I've subbed the A90 with an Xduoo TA-20 to get improved sound dynamics through tube rolling.

As you can see I've gone through the same process as you are now embarking and I was fortunate to have found that Tidal + MQA sounds better - most noticeable on the best equipment - before I invested a lot of money in hardware.

I've recently found this difference in streaming service - FLAC vs higher bit rate MQA - makes an even more noticeable difference on a tube / SS hybrid AMP. So no matter how much research we do, there are always course corrects along the way.

To keep streaming subscription costs down, after some digging I found that Bestbuy offers a Tidal Annual subscription with Holiday seasonal discounts - good to know the timing as I paid $109.99 for my subscription on a sale outside of the Holiday lowest costs right now.

Also, you need a new account for that Bestbuy discount, I was able to add the annual voucher to my existing account, but it may not work that way now, so heads up!

If you are looking for some system to repackage and network transfer the output of the DAC that doesn't make much audible sense, sharing the files remotely is easier done at the OS / network level with a file server, and I have looked into the very costly services like Roon and it's really just a money pit as far as I can see it - there are simpler solutions that cost far less even when duplicating storage.

Speaking of duplicating storage, I've also found it's much less expensive to stream than purchase $$$$'s of FLAC or other files and then need to tote them around or share them via the network.

Duplicating playlists across Tidal and AMHD is easier and cheaper, and these streaming service App's let you save local copies on your mobile devices - and for that I have 512GB and 1TB SD cards on each device.

One more thing, if I had to choose between AMHD and Tidal, I'd pick Tidal. But, since I am a Prime member - (another hidden cost to AMHD?) for me AMHD is an easy 2nd music streaming service that fortunately sounds great too and AMHD has gradually gotten better over time.

If I didn't have Amazon Music HD I'd have trouble deciding which lessor of evils to use - Apple Music and Qobuz are money holes - I've filled up Apple's pockets over the decades like so many of us, but have stopped that cold for now.

Qobuz is likewise a temptation to blow cash on music files. I'd rather get something physical for the huge cash outlay's for music files, but then again I've long ago tired out toting boxes of media around

What other music services have you considered besides AMHD?

Any questions? Please ask, I am happy to help

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...idal-qobuz-via-raspberry-pi.14396/post-442448
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...od-match-stands-suggestions.19278/post-632545

I also went the route of the NAD + KEF => PS Audio + Phase Linear 400 + KEF / B&W long ago - 1978-1980's!

@marco80 - so I see you've been researching this for a while, May 2020 - July 2020, and also tried Tidal streaming - are you still using Tidal?

Then you came back recently with a NAD / KEF / RPi / E30? solution - how is that all working out for you in relation to the quest you started out on a while back in this and the OS server thread?

 

[Poultrygeist]

Check this Reddit post for more details. Amazon has also announced this upgrade via emails sent to active AMHD accounts recently:
View attachment 108020

Thank you so much for the reassuring information. I've been a AMHD subscriber for several months using a node 2i and DAC but haven't received an email notice from Amazon. I already have an HDMI audio extractor and plan to purchase a 4K Fire Stick tomorrow. The deal maker for me over other streaming services is the great album graphics, music video's and lyrics displayed on the big screen. HT has played second fiddle to my 2 channel but now I've moved some of my best speakers there to take advantage of AMHD's better fidelity. With an amp switcher I am able to use a SET amp in 2 channel and an AVR in 5.1.

 

[hmscott]

...I've been a AMHD subscriber for several months using a node 2i and DAC but haven't received an email notice from Amazon.

You won't automatically get those notices from Amazon Music HD, you need to subscribe to the Amazon Music HD Newsletter:

Go to this URL and search for Amazon Music HD:
Your Email Subscriptions (amazon.com)

I'm subscribed to 138 of Amazons "newsletters", and I haven't scanned for new ones for a while...time to cull the old and subscribe to the new again.

This Red Remote Cover sure looks nice: Amazon.com: Fire TV 4K Essentials Bundle including Fire TV Stick 4K, Remote Cover (Red) and USB Power Cable: Amazon Devices

Free Food Network for 1 year: Amazon.com: Fire TV Stick 4K plus 1-year subscription to Food Network Kitchen at no additional cost (with auto-renewal): Amazon Devices

The Amazon Music HD app on Windows, MacOS, Android all do look great on the big screen

Update: Be sure and check the newest comments: filter with hdr, it seems the FireStick 4k doesn't support the DRM that (some?) Prime 4k movies uses:

1.0 out of 5 stars This is a revision to a 3 star review
Reviewed in the United States on December 28, 2020
Configuration: Fire TV Stick 4K
Verified Purchase
"...
The revised review: Although I have a total of 5 firesticks in my home, I now must give a bottom rating to the 4K model. The stick streams 4K ok from Netflix and Prime. But from my 4K collection in Movies Anywhere (some of which were purchased from Prime) none will stream without an error message from Movies Anywhere that my devices do not have DRM capability. I just spent the evening with both MA and Prime in their "chats" and they blamed each other after failed fixes, a useless outcome to me. Prime said if I can stream them, it's not their issue even though they represent the stick as a streaming platform. MA says it must be the stick and that they have had issues with it. If this is not resolve quickly, I am done with the firestick. Unfortunate. "

Seems typical, one department not complying with the requirements of the other.

2.0 out of 5 stars No way to disable HDR for 4K content
Reviewed in the United States on December 24, 2020
Configuration: Fire TV Stick 4K
Verified Purchase
"This version does not give you the option to turn off HDR. If you have a 4K tv without HDR, you will not be able to stream nonHDR content from Netflix and Prime video. The content will be HDR and there is no option to turn it off. Should be way more clear in the specs of the product."

That must be user error?...

3.0 out of 5 stars HDR is washed out overall performance lacking
Reviewed in the United States on January 13, 2021
Configuration: Fire TV Stick 4K
Verified Purchase
"Suffers from the same thing all these sticks suffer from low performance and small memory space for apps. The HDR performance is washed out. If your buying the 4K stick it’s for HDR. It does do HDR it just does it poorly. Nvidia shield is far superior in HDR performance."

Maybe not...

1.0 out of 5 stars KEEPS DROPPING INTERNET
Reviewed in the United States on December 15, 2020
Configuration: Fire TV Stick 4K
Verified Purchase
"I bought this specifically for HBO Max, since WONDER WOMAN 1984 is going to be broadcast in 4K w/ HDR, but this drops the internet signal constantly. My router is very close, and none of my other devices every drop the signal. I can cast HBO Max from my iPad to AirPlay on Roku, but I assumed that the Fire Stick 4K would be easier, and offer better quality. I guess not. I’m keeping it since it was a good price, and I’m hoping that it will work someday, but I wouldn’t be able to recommend it."

I subscribed to HBO MAX (www.hbomax.com) first day

BTW, Wonder Woman 1984 was awesome, I have no idea what all the hubbub was about, I sure hope they make a WWIII... wait... not that, Wonder Woman 3!

Awww, it looks like tomorrow is the last chance to stream WW84 from HBOMAX:

"LAST CHANCE - In theaters and on HBO Max. Streaming through tomorrow."
https://play.hbomax.com/feature/urn:hbo:feature:GX9KHPw1OIMPCJgEAAAAD

Oh right, and the Reddit article was about the "Fire TV Stick 3 (2020)", the Fire TV Stick 4K design is from 2018... so the new improvements for the 2020 release Fire TV Stick 3 probably don't apply to the 2018 Fire TV Stick 4K...?

Oh, well, maybe I'll wait for the next version of the Stick from Amazon.

 

[Taddpole]

Not sure why you would post about TIDAL in reply to a specifically question about hardware suitable for Amazon Music streaming.

Because he wants to dress opinion up as facts it seems.

 

[Bamyasi]

Oh right, and the Reddit article was about the "Fire TV Stick 3 (2020)", the Fire TV Stick 4K design is from 2018... so the new improvements for the 2020 release Fire TV Stick 3 probably don't apply to the 2018 Fire TV Stick 4K...?

Oh, well, maybe I'll wait for the next version of the Stick from Amazon.

Regarding the DRM, HDR, and other issues: we are discussing music strreaming via AMHD app on Amazon Firesticks here. I have no idea how good or bad Firesticks are for streaming movies compared to other options available on the market, since I've never used any of them for watching movies, actually.

The Reddit post specifically lists Fire TV Stick 4K (2018) as the one supporting AMHD/Ultra HD streaming via the recent firmware update. This model is also mentioned in the official Amazon update announcement email. And this is the model I have here and can confirm that it does work.

Ultra HD streaming is also supported now on Fire TV 3rd Gen (2017), so the support does not directly depend on the hardware's original release date. My guess it depends on the amount of computational resources available (for resampling, etc).

Note, AMHD app on the Firestick Lite (2020) only supports 24/48 sampling rate.

 

[the_hamster 2]

Streaming AMHD from iPad Mini4 w/ 14.3 OS to Topping E30 DAC via CCK and 2M USB cable always suffers from stuttering/dropout for any album cuts above 24bit/44.1-48kHz signal. Would a much shorter USB cable (e.g., 0.5M) alleviate this problem?

 

[hmscott]

Streaming AMHD from iPad Mini4 w/ 14.3 OS to Topping E30 DAC via CCK and 2M USB cable always suffers from stuttering/dropout for any album cuts above 24bit/44.1-48kHz signal. Would a much shorter USB cable (e.g., 0.5M) alleviate this problem?

Yes, or a better quality cable. Not a "magic cable", but a well designed and implemented cable that follows strict parameters of spec. Doing that, and tuning each length to have the same parameters allows for longer than "max" spec cable. Supra USB cables by Jenving - Sweden - are such well made cables.

If you need the length 2m being a limit for consumer "cheap" cables - mass-produced, not so much Quality controlled, can vary in the result.

Also, we need to count the adapters and devices that the signal passes through, for example, I can get a cheap 2m cable to work from the motherboard back panel USB socket of my PC, but not from the front panel USB socket as there is a length of internal USB "jumper" from a motherboard USB socket to the top panel of the PC - this adds to the overall effective length of the cable.

In addition, the FiiO DK-1 dock for my FiiO M15 add's about 0.5m to the USB effective length. A 2m cable to it won't work, but a 1.5m cable does. The symptoms are the same as you described. My M15 would work fine for anywhere from a few minutes to over an hour, and then it would "drop out" and the PC wouldn't see it. If I plugged the USB cable directly into the M15 instead of the Dk-1 dock the USB connection was solid for days; which is how I ran it until I realized I could try plugging into a back panel USB port, and there was the solution, cut out the extra length of the internal USB jumper cable from the motherboard to the top panel USB port.

You could try a Jenving Supra USB cable of the length you need - they advertise some passive supported run lengths for USB and HDMI well past the "spec", and they get good success reports from owners that bought long length cables:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...d90-balanced-usb-dac-review.10519/post-635538

But yes, for now get a 1M cable or move the connection to a "shorter effective path", like direct to the motherboard or back panel USB socket.

 

[hmscott]

Regarding the DRM, HDR, and other issues: we are discussing music strreaming via AMHD app on Amazon Firesticks here. I have no idea how good or bad Firesticks are for streaming movies compared to other options available on the market, since I've never used any of them for watching movies, actually.

The Reddit post specifically lists Fire TV Stick 4K (2018) as the one supporting AMHD/Ultra HD streaming via the recent firmware update. This model is also mentioned in the official Amazon update announcement email. And this is the model I have here and can confirm that it does work.

Ultra HD streaming is also supported now on Fire TV 3rd Gen (2017), so the support does not directly depend on the hardware's original release date. My guess it depends on the amount of computational resources available (for resampling, etc).

Note, AMHD app on the Firestick Lite (2020) only supports 24/48 sampling rate.

That is interesting use of the "consumer" device for Hifi use, I'll read up more on it and reply back later - if I forget please ping me, I've come very close to getting a Chromecast / Fire device many times, and then find another solution, I'm still interested - thank you for the helpful reply

 

[Poultrygeist]

I've really enjoyed AMHD @ 44.1 CD quality from an older Fire Stick but can't wait to hear AMHD's Ultra content streaming from a 4K Fire Stick.

 

[SFyffe]

Can someone help me understand how to get the AMHD's audio signal out of the 4k Fire Stick? I am not clear on the complete path..

 

[Poultrygeist]

You can use an inexpensive HDMI audio extractor. It extracts the digital audio from the Fire Stick HDMI and sends it to your stand alone DAC. Meanwhile the HDMI signal out from the extractor connects to the TV's HDMI input.

 

[Deleted member 22273]

Buyed a used CCA.
CCA works great with ios. But it depends on the app.
CloudBeats and CCA works bad. I give it up. And stops using it.

Tries again
Deezer and CCA is a good thing. now it works well.

 

[the_hamster 2]

Buyed a used CCA.
CCA works great with ios. But it depends on the app.
CloudBeats and CCA works bad. I give it up. And stops using it.

Tries again
Deezer and CCA is a good thing. now it works well.

AFAIK Deezer plays only at Redbook 16bit/44.1kHz signal, and effortless playback over CCA...it’s the hi-res 24bit stuff thst causes some difficulties. Solved with Node 2i, but at too high a cost: CCC@$35, Node 2i@$549.

 

[Deleted member 22273]

Reedbook sounds good

 

[Poultrygeist]

Last week I bought the latest Fire Stick 4k and have it connected to an HDMI audio extractor. The extractor extract's the digital audio from the Fire Stick and sends it to my Topping DX3 Pro via an optical connection. The audio quality displayed on the TV screen streaming AMHD Ultra is as follows:

Track Quality: 24 bit/ 192kHz or 24 bit/96 kHz
Device Capability: 16 bit/ 192 kHz
Currently playing at: 16 bit/ 192 kHz or 16 bit/ 96 kHz

Nothing indicates 24 bit and more perplexing is the fact that the Topping DX3 Pro's display reads everything as 48 kHz? The Topping reads correctly from my Node 2i streamer.

 

[mermayer]

I send the Amazon Music HD stream from the App direct to my good old Sonos Connect (S1). 16-bit, 44,1 kHz/48 kHz is possible, 24-bit, 44,1 kHz/48 kHz only with the new Sonos Port (S2).
Add.: My TOPPING D10s DAC, connected to the USB output from my old S8 phone, shows 192 PCM and works without problem for ULTRA HD.