• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Hifiman HE400i Review (planar headphone)

bobbooo

Major Contributor
Joined
Aug 30, 2019
Messages
1,479
Likes
2,079
HE4XX (for all intents and purposes the same as the HE400i)

That's like saying the Sennheiser HD600 and HD650 are for all intents and purposes the same. Actually it's worse, because the differences in frequency response between the HE4XX and HE400i (both old and 2020 versions) are significantly greater than that between the HD600 and HD650. Not only that, but there is a very obvious physical difference in the pad material/structure between the HE4XX and HE400i (which is likely at least partially the cause of their differing frequency responses). Please see my post earlier in this thread. The HE4XX and HE400i headphones are not the same. There are significant differences between them.
 
Last edited:

pwjazz

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 21, 2018
Messages
507
Likes
746
@pwjazz is the build quality better for the HE400i compared to the HE4xx? I just purchased a pair of HE4xx yesterday and was wondering

I owned an HE400i years ago, but it's gone through several revisions since then. The OG HE400i had a suspension headband that I remember being a bit more comfortable, but plastic yokes that are prone to breaking. I think one generation got metal reinforced plastic yokes to fix that, but the latest generation uses metal yokes and a one-piece headband. The HE4XX has a generally heavier build, but the mechanisms that hold the yoke sliders have been known to fail, and some people have had trouble with the yokes pulling out of the cups.

With Hifiman, build quality and reliability are kind of a crapshoot. I paid $130 for the HE4XX and I'm satisfied enough with it for now. It's held up better than the HE560i I bought from Adorama that had the driver on one side fail during my first few hours of listening :)
 
Last edited:

pwjazz

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 21, 2018
Messages
507
Likes
746
That's like saying the Sennheiser HD600 and HD650 are for all intents and purposes the same. Actually it's worse, because the difference in frequency response between the HE4XX and HE400i (both old and 2020 versions) is significantly greater than that between the HD600 and HD650. Not only that, but there is a very obvious physical difference in the pad material/structure between the HE4XX and HE400i (which is likely at least partially the cause of their differing frequency responses). Please see my post earlier in this thread. The HE4XX and HE400i headphones are not the same. There are significant differences between them.

Fair enough, "extremely similar" would be more accurate than "essentially the same". Going by the measurements you posted, their overall sound profile is quite similar. The biggest deviation is in the sub-bass extension, which is going to be affected by seal anyway. There is also what looks like a real difference in the midrange around 1KHz, but from 2KHz up the shapes are extremely similar.

I've owned the HE400i and the HE4XX, though not at the same time, so I can't give a direct listening comparison, but going off my admittedly flawed memory, they sound very similar, which is to say they sound much more alike each other than to any of the other headphones I've heard (including other Hifiman models).
 

samwell7

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2020
Messages
316
Likes
255
Location
Victoria, Australia
I'm not @watchnerd but I have the K371 and HE4XX (for all intents and purposes the same as the HE400i). Comfort wise the HE4XX wins by virtue of having more room for my ears and not getting sweaty since it's an open back. Build quality wise the HE4XX is quite different from the HE400i, but I'm satisfied with it. I actually had to send the K371 to be serviced because one of the sliders wouldn't stay put (note that Harman doesn't cover shipping costs even for warranty repairs). Sound wise, without EQ the K371 sounds more natural, has better extended and more impactful bass and doesn't have the tizzy treble of the HE4XX. With EQ they're much closer.

One thing to keep in mind is that the K371 is much easier to drive. My Qudelix 5K doesn't have enough power on the single ended (2 Vrms) output for the HE4XX when I'm using EQ. The K371 is no problem.

Hey thanks for that! I've heard lots of stories about poor QC on the K371s, mine have been okay so far thankfully.

My main reason for wanting to try the HE400/4xx is wanting to try a planar headphone, I'm fairly happy with my current cans (K371 for closed and K702 for open) but I like to try different things and these 'mid-fi' level cans present an easy/cheap way to try different sound sigs; however I don't think a set of EQ'd HE400/4xx's will give me anything more than EQ'd K702s.

I know it's 'not right' but I do enjoy listening to the character of different cans rather than having predominantly listening with EQ.
 

samwell7

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2020
Messages
316
Likes
255
Location
Victoria, Australia
Yes, I do.

With no EQ, they sound very different.

I find it easier to get a good ear seal with the HE400i than with the K371. But I also find the K371 more comfortable over time because my ears breathe better.

I like the cables that came with the K371 much better.
Hey thanks for getting back to me!
Given your comments and @pwjazz's comments I think the HE400/4xx will be a non-starter for me.
 

pwjazz

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 21, 2018
Messages
507
Likes
746
Hey thanks for that! I've heard lots of stories about poor QC on the K371s, mine have been okay so far thankfully.

My main reason for wanting to try the HE400/4xx is wanting to try a planar headphone, I'm fairly happy with my current cans (K371 for closed and K702 for open) but I like to try different things and these 'mid-fi' level cans present an easy/cheap way to try different sound sigs; however I don't think a set of EQ'd HE400/4xx's will give me anything more than EQ'd K702s.

I know it's 'not right' but I do enjoy listening to the character of different cans rather than having predominantly listening with EQ.

If you're looking for planars with a distinct character, the Audeze full size LCD line definitely fits the bill. In my case, the novelty of that character wore off eventually and I found myself reaching for EQ, but their tuning is a very interesting take that's definitely not Harman inspired. Basically they combine linear sub-bass and lower mids with heavily recessed upper mids and slightly recessed treble. This makes for a very full sound that manages to still maintain some clarity, and it's a lot of fun for rock and roll, and for reasons that I can't entirely explain I absolutely love it for choral music, especially renaissance and baroque stuff. It is however very far from high fidelity.
 

samwell7

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2020
Messages
316
Likes
255
Location
Victoria, Australia
If you're looking for planars with a distinct character, the Audeze full size LCD line definitely fits the bill. In my case, the novelty of that character wore off eventually and I found myself reaching for EQ, but their tuning is a very interesting take that's definitely not Harman inspired. Basically they combine linear sub-bass and lower mids with heavily recessed upper mids and slightly recessed treble. This makes for a very full sound that manages to still maintain some clarity, and it's a lot of fun for rock and roll, and for reasons that I can't entirely explain I absolutely love it for choral music, especially renaissance and baroque stuff. It is however very far from high fidelity.
Interesting!
Thanks for that, given that I typically lean the other way with my audio equipment, usually choosing something with a bit more treble and higher mids (i.e. K702, Etymotics, Sony SS-CS5s for speakers) it'd probably be a massive difference but I'll add them to my wish list.
 

Robbo99999

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
6,874
Likes
6,672
Location
UK
Hey thanks for that! I've heard lots of stories about poor QC on the K371s, mine have been okay so far thankfully.

My main reason for wanting to try the HE400/4xx is wanting to try a planar headphone, I'm fairly happy with my current cans (K371 for closed and K702 for open) but I like to try different things and these 'mid-fi' level cans present an easy/cheap way to try different sound sigs; however I don't think a set of EQ'd HE400/4xx's will give me anything more than EQ'd K702s.

I know it's 'not right' but I do enjoy listening to the character of different cans rather than having predominantly listening with EQ.
If you like the detail of the K702 you have, then I wouldn't go out of your way to try the HE4XX - the HE4XX is more laid back and doesn't resolve the same detail of the K702, talking with both EQ'd to the Harman Curve. HE4XX has better bass though, and it's sound stage is good (2nd place amoungst my headphones) but not as large a soundstage as the K702.
 

bobbooo

Major Contributor
Joined
Aug 30, 2019
Messages
1,479
Likes
2,079
Fair enough, "extremely similar" would be more accurate than "essentially the same". Going by the measurements you posted, their overall sound profile is quite similar. The biggest deviation is in the sub-bass extension, which is going to be affected by seal anyway. There is also what looks like a real difference in the midrange around 1KHz, but from 2KHz up the shapes are extremely similar.

The large 5.7dB sub-bass difference is likely (at least partially) caused by the HE400i's perforated inner ring of its pads resulting in a worse seal. As I linked in my long post, Rtings' measurements show the frequency response consistency (including in the bass) among multiple re-seats on different listeners (in-ear mic measurements) is very good, so this is a real, consistent lack of bass extension compared to the HE4XX. As decades of research has shown bass has a very important contribution to preference in audio reproduction (contributing around a third in blind studies), so this is a significant difference. Then there's the 400i's resonance dip around 600Hz which the 4XX doesn't have, the 400i's (old version) 4.5dB deeper notch at 5.6kHz and significant peak above the Harman target at 7kHz, the 4XX's response being closer to the target around 1-2kHz as you mention, plus its greater high-frequency extension etc. A cursory glance at their frequency responses may lead you to the conclusion that they're 'extremely similar', but on closer inspection this really isn't the case. At most you could say they're just similar, but nothing more than that. This is what extremely similar headphones look like ;)
 
Last edited:

Dialectic

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 26, 2017
Messages
1,740
Likes
3,095
Location
a fortified compound
I think there's something wrong with my HE4XX and I wanted to pick some peoples brains on it. I bought it recently the last couple of weeks, and I've not been using it loads as I've still had better results with my K702, but revisited the HE4XX EQ today, and I think the HE4XX is giving me tinnitus (which I'm not susceptible to, and I don't listen loud). When I first got them couple of weeks ago the same thing happened, but I assumed it was something in my room making the high pitched tone or a temporary problem with my ear....I stopped using the HE4XX the last week and the tinnitus went away....today I start messing with the HE4XX and it's come back. So I think the HE4XX is causing it. Another thing that makes me think it's the HE4XX is that there is some strange but subtle "distortion" particularly around female vocals and high hats, where there seems to be additional higher pitched ringing surrounding or even preceding those sounds, and it's that ringing that is the same pitch as this tinnitus I'm experiencing. I think there's something wrong with my HE4XX and it's throwing out some dangerous tones, or that's just the way they are.....I'm not sure. I'm also not doing silly boosting of high frequencies in my EQ's, so it's not that, and I even tested not boosting the treble dip at 5500Hz to see if there was something associated with a sharp boost there that was causing distortion & my tinnitus.......I even tried EQ's that only boosted the bass by half my original boost value to see if bass boost was making the HE4XX throw out some weird high pitched distortion. Here's one of my EQ's just so you can see the Frequency Response of the original stock HE4XX as well as a bit more context for my EQ's, it's almost the same model of headphone as the HE400i, hence me posting in this thread, just some different pads and maybe some other subtle changes:
View attachment 106688
I gotta say it's really not been a pleasant experience with this headphone because of this discovery of mine. By the way I was listening to my K702 most of the day today playing some computer games and listening to some music, and it was only after donning the HE4XX for a 2 minute listening test that I noticed the tinnitus came back, so I really think this is the HE4XX fault.

EDIT: one more additional thought, this headphone in stock format has a very grainy holographic type sound (first thing that came into my head as soon as I heard it), which is especially noticeable at high volumes. I say high volumes because I flipped between EQ's using EqualiserAPO by turning one off & turning the other on.....so there's a brief period where the headphone is playing in it's stock un'EQd format at an extra 8dB due to no negative preamp.....and this is when I noticed this very grainy holographic type sound of this headphone when stock at loud volumes. An additional point to help diagnose the issue perhaps.

EDIT #2: a lot of the graininess is removed with the Harman EQ's, but still some persists.....if this helps narrow down the problem.
Very interesting post. I have noticed a similar phenomenon with my Hifiman HE560s (V1), which I recently have started using with heavy EQ to cure their slightly anemic low bass and 2 kHz suckout. I have acute hearing and am susceptible to tinnitus, but my current round of ringing in the ears coincided with my starting to use the HE560s again after a hiatus.

I do not notice any subjective problem with the sound of the EQed HE560s. It's possible that the low distortion is inducing me to listen at volume levels that are too high. It's also possible that the tinnitus has nothing whatsoever to do with the 'phones.
 

Robbo99999

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
6,874
Likes
6,672
Location
UK
Very interesting post. I have noticed a similar phenomenon with my Hifiman HE560s (V1), which I recently have started using with heavy EQ to cure their slightly anemic low bass and 2 kHz suckout. I have acute hearing and am susceptible to tinnitus, but my current round of ringing in the ears coincided with my starting to use the HE560s again after a hiatus.

I do not notice any subjective problem with the sound of the EQed HE560s. It's possible that the low distortion is inducing me to listen at volume levels that are too high. It's also possible that the tinnitus has nothing whatsoever to do with the 'phones.
Hi, I did a post sometime after that one you quoted, and got to the bottom of what was causing the tinnitus:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...00i-review-planar-headphone.18544/post-640405
The headband was too tight which was detrimental to the sound, but also causing that tinnitus somehow. They're not my favourite headphone though, even after loosening up the headband....but definitely loosen the high clamp pressure of the headphone if you haven't already.....unless your HE560s doesn't have that kind of design/issue. The HE4XX is still not the smoothest sounding headphone I own, nor the greatest clarity.....it might still offend my ears on long listening sessions, but I'm fairly sure it was the tight headband causing the tinnitus.
 

Dialectic

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 26, 2017
Messages
1,740
Likes
3,095
Location
a fortified compound
Hi, I did a post sometime after that one you quoted, and got to the bottom of what was causing the tinnitus:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...00i-review-planar-headphone.18544/post-640405
The headband was too tight which was detrimental to the sound, but also causing that tinnitus somehow. They're not my favourite headphone though, even after loosening up the headband....but definitely loosen the high clamp pressure of the headphone if you haven't already.....unless your HE560s doesn't have that kind of design/issue. The HE4XX is still not the smoothest sounding headphone I own, nor the greatest clarity.....it might still offend my ears on long listening sessions, but I'm fairly sure it was the tight headband causing the tinnitus.
Sorry I missed your subsequent post. My HE560s fit somewhat loosely, as my earpads are badly worn. I guess I need to turn down the volume.
 

Robbo99999

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
6,874
Likes
6,672
Location
UK
Sorry I missed your subsequent post. My HE560s fit somewhat loosely, as my earpads are badly worn. I guess I need to turn down the volume.
Yeah, might be that.....but if it continues to cause you issues don't keep putting your ears through it. Give it a break and use it another day & see if the problem reoccurs.
 

Jimbob54

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 25, 2019
Messages
11,066
Likes
14,697
Sorry I missed your subsequent post. My HE560s fit somewhat loosely, as my earpads are badly worn. I guess I need to turn down the volume.
I have the 560, very smooth sounding, definitely not an edgy sound, so yes maybe just too loud like you say. And actually comfy, though I did change the pads when I bought 2nd hand as the stocks had disintegrated.

I'm not actually sure if you can flex that ludicrous headband frame in either direction with any degree of success.
 

Dialectic

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 26, 2017
Messages
1,740
Likes
3,095
Location
a fortified compound
I have the 560, very smooth sounding, definitely not an edgy sound, so yes maybe just too loud like you say. And actually comfy, though I did change the pads when I bought 2nd hand as the stocks had disintegrated.

I'm not actually sure if you can flex that ludicrous headband frame in either direction with any degree of success.
Do you have the V1s? Are you running an EQ curve by any chance?
 

Jimbob54

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 25, 2019
Messages
11,066
Likes
14,697
Do you have the V1s? Are you running an EQ curve by any chance?

I think the models get confusing but I believe so. The ones with the awful screw in connector for the wires. Oddly, I started using EQ on my phones in the last year or so and usually its a success. Not yet found one that works for these though (bearing in mind the replacement pads will change the sound anyway) so I run without EQ.
 

Jimbob54

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 25, 2019
Messages
11,066
Likes
14,697
Mine come from the production run right after they replaced the screw connectors, but they still have the V1 wooden earcups.

Loosely following the AutoEQ-specified parametric filters for these phones, I am running 6 dB of boost centered around 2 kHz, along with some other, more minor filters. The 2 kHz boost helps the sound massively.

I do wonder if that boost, along with high volume levels, has triggered a tinnitus attack.
I do know when I do sweeps that 2500 makes me wince a bit, so maybe so!
 

Robbo99999

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 23, 2020
Messages
6,874
Likes
6,672
Location
UK
Mine come from the production run right after they replaced the screw connectors, but they still have the V1 wooden earcups.

Loosely following the AutoEQ-specified parametric filters for these phones, I am running 6 dB of boost centered around 2 kHz, along with some other, more minor filters. The 2 kHz boost helps the sound massively.

I do wonder if that boost, along with high volume levels, has triggered a tinnitus attack.
If you want a very smooth headphone to not trigger tinnitus, and you've got small to normal sized ears, then consider buying a 2nd hand NAD HP50, it's the smoothest least peaky headphone I own... whilst still being lively & detailed (after EQ to Harman Curve). It's discontinued now hence the advice buying it 2nd hand. You got the fantastic low reach into the bass that equals or betters what you can achieve with your current ("flat down to 20Hz").
 

pwjazz

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 21, 2018
Messages
507
Likes
746
I'm not actually sure if you can flex that ludicrous headband frame in either direction with any degree of success.

I think Hifiman uses hardened steel, so I would avoid trying to bend it very much. I may have tried to bend a very similar headband once and it may have broken clean in half. I'm not admitting to anything though.
 

_thelaughingman

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 1, 2020
Messages
1,324
Likes
1,943
@amirm I've been using your PEQ for the HE4xx that came today after using PEQ filters from oratory for an hour. Definitely prefer the PEQ settings provided by your testing, sonically it sounds more clear and the imaging of tracks comes through.
 
Top Bottom