Abyss Diana V2 Review (headphone)

[the_brunx]

So is literally everyone who listens to and enjoys these headphones objectively wrong?

I enjoy the Vali 1 or the Vali 2 (as well as others in solid state config), amps that measure considerably worse with more distortion, than I do my SMSL SP200 (an excellent measuring amp). Am I objectively wrong?

Also, I'll add, I've heard the Diana Phi and loved it. I was on zero hype train, I didn't even know really what Abyss was when I heard them the first time. I just found them at a head-fi meet and listened. In fact, my initial experience was with the 1266 and I wasn't even that impressed with those.

I don't know, I don't live my hobbies through measurements. If you go to a stereo shop and start asking the guy to read off measurements for you instead of playing the equipment, he'll tell you to get out of his shop.

I would love to answer your post but its quite demotivating the way you radically edit your original posts after the question has been answered.

 

[Zensō]

So is literally everyone who listens to and enjoys these headphones objectively wrong?

I enjoy the Vali 1 or the Vali 2 (as well as others in solid state config), amps that measure considerably worse with more distortion, than I do my SMSL SP200 (an excellent measuring amp). Am I objectively wrong?

Also, I'll add, I've heard the Diana Phi and loved it. I was on zero hype train, I didn't even know really what Abyss was when I heard them the first time. I just found them at a head-fi meet and listened. In fact, my initial experience was with the 1266 and I wasn't even that impressed with those.

I don't know, I don't live my hobbies through measurements. If you go to a stereo shop and start asking the guy to read off measurements for you instead of playing the equipment, he'll tell you to get out of his shop.

It seems you like some distortion in your audio chain. There’s nothing wrong with that. That doesn’t mean gear that distorts is transparent or even well engineered though.

 

[all24bits]

The point I'm making is that you can't know for sure. We cannot trust our own minds to make value judgements. Time and time again this has been proven in psychology. You can't really know what your cognitive biases are, and even if you did you can't be sure you can account for it.

Stating that "I base my likes on what my ears say" is in itself an implicit mode of cognitive bias.

I know for sure if I like something or not. The measurements/company history/hype one way or another are not going to affect my decision. I've heard gear from companies that have massive hype behind them. I wasn't impressed. I've heard gear from companies that I had zero clue on and was majorly impressed.

Again, I have gear that I really enjoy that I've seen the measurements from Amir on that were less than great. I don't listen to measurements. I listen to the gear and I have very specific reasons for liking the gear that I'm listening to. I have very specific reasons for NOT liking gear I don't like. The measurements are not going to sway me one way or another. Measurements are nice and a useful tool but I don't base my enjoyment on graphs and charts. This reminds me of the audiophiles at the Hoffman Forums who only listen to music if they think it will be relevant in 20-30 years or only listen to music 20-30 years after it's produced to make sure it's still relevant.

note: I am only referring to audio listening. if there's a TV or something like Amir mentioned in his story, then we can discuss that but that's an entirely different issue (to me).

 

[the_brunx]

I know for sure if I like something or not. The measurements/company history/hype one way or another are not going to affect my decision. I've heard gear from companies that have massive hype behind them. I wasn't impressed.

Again, I have gear that I really enjoy that I've seen the measurements from Amir on that were less than great. I don't listen to measurements. I listen to the gear and I have very specific reasons for liking the gear that I'm listening to. I have very specific reasons for NOT liking gear I don't like. The measurements are not going to sway me one way or another. Measurements are nice and a useful tool but I don't base my enjoyment on graphs and charts. This reminds me of the audiophiles at the Hoffman Forums who only listen to music if they think it will be relevant in 20-30 years or only listen to music 20-30 years after it's produced to make sure it's still relevant.

note: I am only referring to audio listening. if there's a TV or something like Amir mentioned in his story, then we can discuss that but that's an entirely different issue (to me).

But if you are looking for high fidelity headphones then the Abyss diana is worse than headphones which cost a fraction of the price.

 

[KTN46]

I know for sure if I like something or not. The measurements/company history/hype one way or another are not going to affect my decision. I've heard gear from companies that have massive hype behind them. I wasn't impressed. I've heard gear from companies that I had zero clue on and was majorly impressed.

Again you're missing my point. Regardless of your beliefs about what you perceive and what influences you, there is still bias present. You cannot account for this because you are human. Your certainty means nothing, because peer reviewed studies have shown that we can't really account for bias in pretty much anything.

Just because you think you are not affected by "measurements/company history/hype one way or another", doesn't mean that you actually aren't.

Your disappointment in well hyped gear, or positivity behind gear you hadn't heard of before... Does not change the fact that bias played a role in your decision. Everything from the environment, the people around you, your evaluation of your own listening skillset, historical factors, the music you listened to, how you felt on the day, your health... etc. all play into cognitive bias.

My assertion is, again, that "trusting your ears" is such pointless statement, because you can't trust your own brain to interpret information from your ears in a neutral way. It is better in my opinion, to frame our taste in objectivity, so we can better understand the reality of what we like, and make more informed, consumer friendly decisions. I believe this is a more critical way of understanding and evaluating our biases.

 

[SmackDaddies]

It is better in my opinion, to frame our taste in objectivity, so we can better understand the reality of what we like, and make more informed, consumer friendly decisions. I believe this is a more critical way of understanding and evaluating our biases.

Is that not a version of trust your ears? I understand the reality of what I like, as impacted by my hearing loss and limitations of my main listening area, along with my budget. I know I like slightly accentuated mid bass, clear mids and highs that are not too sharp. If my set up can achieve that, I am pretty happy.

 

[the_brunx]

Is that not a version of trust your ears? I understand the reality of what I like, as impacted by my hearing loss and limitations of my main listening area, along with my budget. I know I like slightly accentuated mid bass, clear mids and highs that are not too sharp. If my set up can achieve that, I am pretty happy.

Abyss Distortion doesn't help with hearing loss, just use an eq.

 

[Degru]

I just swapped the stock pads for the "DMS mod" ones. Made a quick frequency response measurement:

View attachment 105502

There is really no difference. That difference in bass could be had with how you mount the headphone on the rig.

I tried to listen to the difference but it takes so long to swap one for the other that it was hard to draw any conclusion.

The loss of seal is weird. Crinacle was able to measure flat bass extension on his rig, and the pads don't look like they would particularly have trouble achieving seal. -10db at 30hz definitely doesn't seem right when people rave about the subbass on these.

 

[GoldenOne]

It looks like these measurements were taken with an improper seal?
Measurements from elsewhere show quite a stark contrast to the ones shown here, see crinacle's measurements of the phi for example.

The measurements in this review show a lot of similar characteristics to what happens with estat/planar measurements taken with a broken seal (which was a constant problem for those measuring electrostats afaik due to the lack of clamp, fragility and a pad design that did not work well with most measurement rigs.)

The image below shows an SR-507 with a seal (red) and improper seal (yellow).

As you can see, quite a lot of similar characteristics
I'm guessing that due to the shape of the pads the same is happening here, hence the massive rolloff at ~50hz and potentially some of the massive treble wonkiness too.

Might be worth mentioning this in the review? Its a bit unfair to evaluate a product when the measurements don't reflect what the actual user would experience with it on their head. (unless their cheeks are 100% flat of course )

 

[GoldenOne]

These are not diana phi.

I understand that, but the fact that the measurements quite clearly show that there was an improper seal (likely due to the diana pads not being flat so as to conform to the users head, combined with the lack of swivel on the diana, and the fact that the measurement rig used has flat plates not an artificial head) should absolutely be mentioned.

Its completely unfair to judge a product when there is a flaw in the testing methodology.
I've never heard the diana, I have never owned an Abyss product, I have no idea if diana is good or not. But for objective testing to be useful, it needs to be fair and address (or at LEAST mention) when there is an issue. As there clearly is in this case.

If you were testing the speed of two cars, and it was Dry when you tested car A, but wet when you tested car B, then you need to either fix the issue and test car B properly, or mention that the fact that it was wet makes the results non-comparable to other tests. Otherwise you're implying that something is bad when actually you have no idea at all.

I'd like to know if the diana is a good headphone or not, but unfortunately its not possible to tell from these tests..

 

[Billy Budapest]

Is it just me, or is there something ever-so-slightly Jecklyn Float-ish about the Abyss designs?

 

[the_brunx]

Plenty of people wear headphones with glasses though.

 

[GoldenOne]

Plenty of people wear headphones with glasses though.

Yes, and glasses are known to change how a headphone sounds. How much so will depend on the headphone, as dynamics are usually much better in terms of forgiving a broken seal than planars

 

[the_brunx]

Curly hair, face shape, etc. so many factors also present in reality. I would even argue that measurements which use unnatural/extra help/effort/tools to help the headphones seal while measuring are the ones which are flawed. don't you think?

 

[ConnorG]

Sure your headphones measure well, but can they do THIS?

 

[GoldenOne]

Curly hair, face shape, etc. so many factors also presence in reality. I would even argue that measurements which use unnatural/extra help/effort to help the headphones seal while measuring are the ones which are flawed. don't you think?

There is a big difference between having a slight change in seal/resistance due to having a beard, curly hair etc, vs having a large break as seen in the testing here due to a combination of pad + rig shape.

The exact same thing happens on a lot of stax models due to the way their pads are made to fit the users head better (for better seal).
And as you can see in the comparison image I posted, the change is not small in the slightest, and reflects very heavily what is seen in the review. Creating a large midbass hump, and then a massive rolloff, as well as parts of the treble all but nulling themselves.

It is not fair to test some headphones with a broken seal and some without, testing needs to be done on even ground, else its all but pointless.

Attached is Tyll's measurements of the Stax Lambda Signature for example, this measurement was done with a broken seal (again, due to the pad shape and the fact that the headphones have basically 0 clamp).
You see the same midbass hump, rolloff, and HUGE bass THD. (now where have we seen this before?)

Meanwhile, look at another similar model, the Lambda Nova Signature, which DID have a seal during measurements. This time it extends almost flat down to 20hz, and THD is below 0.3% for practically the whole frequency range too.
Additionally the comparison in 30hz square wave performance between the two is incredibly drastic.

Again, I have no idea how Dianas sound, I have no idea if they're worth it. But its frustrating when trying to compare objective evidence regarding various headphones when some of that objective evidence has serious flaws. Especially when people are so quick to jump on the "haha expensive headphone bad" train and are unwilling to acknowledge that an unfair test is....well...unfair.

 

[the_brunx]

There is a big difference between having a slight change in seal/resistance due to having a beard, curly hair etc, vs having a large break as seen in the testing here due to a combination of pad + rig shape.

The exact same thing happens on a lot of stax models due to the way their pads are made to fit the users head better (for better seal).
And as you can see in the comparison image I posted, the change is not small in the slightest, and reflects very heavily what is seen in the review. Creating a large midbass hump, and then a massive rolloff, as well as parts of the treble all but nulling themselves.

It is not fair to test some headphones with a broken seal and some without, testing needs to be done on even ground, else its all but pointless.

I think Amirm places the headphones the best possible way he can on the GRAS head, (I believe they averaged the head shape also to represent everybody), Just like a person would in reality. but I think if headphones have to unconditionally be controlled to be sealed above what is natural, (tape etc) I Personally think that's what's flawed.

 

[GoldenOne]

I think Amirm places the headphones the best possible way he can on the GRAS head, (I believe they averaged the head shape also to represent everybody), Just like a person would in reality. but I think if headphones have to unconditionally be controlled to be sealed above what is natural, (tape etc) I Personally think that's what's flawed.

Amir's measurement is not using a full head simulation rig. It has an artificial pinna, but the fixture itself is otherwise flat https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../asr-getting-into-measuring-headphones.18086/

Which means that most headphones that do not have flat pads (which as you can see the diana do not), are going to show problems.

 

[the_brunx]

Amir's measurement is not using a full head simulation rig. It has an artificial pinna, but the fixture itself is otherwise flat https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../asr-getting-into-measuring-headphones.18086/

Which means that most headphones that do not have flat pads (which as you can see the diana do not), are going to show problems.

How will you absolute zero leakage seal the AKG K1000?

 

[GoldenOne]

How will you seal the AKG K1000?

The K1000 is a completely different thing.
Its a headphone DESIGNED and tuned to be run freefield. The Diana is not.....
Additionally the diana is planar and k1000 is dynamic, afaik planar drivers (and estats) change significantly more when there is no front-volume seal than dynamics do