Topping L30 Headphone Amplifier Review

[Blizz]

I purchased a L30 stack from apos last minute before the price increase on 12/31 and my L30 starts with 2011 my E30 is 2012 though :/

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

He is saying they are willing to treat each extreme case individually. It's a reassurance many of us can live with (?). Moreover, he's dealing with many questions, challenges to credibility, and also trying to get to the root of the issue that's causing few amps to die.

Customers scamming companies for some easy money? What a world! He's just saying what every company in the world would be considering and discussing internally. He shouldn't be castigated for being honest. If I were in his position I'd be thinking twice before speaking online so honestly.

I think it's clear he's not saying "our customers might scam us"; it's more the fear that current non-Topping customers might become customers by buying an L30 and then use it to claim $$$$ for a damaged pair of headphones they had laying around/expensive pair they bought "damaged; sold as seen" on eBay.

The Schiit situation is different as it appears they had made an amp which was lacking some protection other similarly designed amps had to protect headphones, and so could damage them under pretty much normal conditions when non-faulty. Whereas the L30 problem appears to be happening to a tiny number of amps at the point that they were failing.

Neither of these responses make sense at all.

Let’s assume Schiit’s amp was more likely to damage headphones than this Topping amp (something that’s not clear yet, but let’s assume). That would mean that it would be easier, not harder, for Schiit to get scammed than Topping to get scammed, because every purchaser of the Schiit amp could claim it damaged their headphones under “normal conditions.” Yet somehow Schiit was able to reimburse people for damage to their headphones. In contrast, if so few of Topping’s can fail like this, one would have to buy Topping’s amp and somehow try to induce what we’re told is an exceedingly rare failure.

It’s logically contradictory to say that it’s incredibly rare for the amp to fail in this way and to say that it’s likely that customers would buy it solely to scam Topping (and be successful).

Bottom line is that by declaring that the company isn’t committed to reimbursing customers who’ve incurred documented loss because of their faulty product, Topping is providing poor customer service and telling people that they’re taking their gear’s life into their own hands by using one of their products. Buyer beware.

 

[raistlin65]

My S/N starts with 2009 as well.
What should I do?
Personally, I am a student, and this was my first personal amp that I bought for myself, other amps I have tried were borrowed from friends, and I'm now afraid to use it, considering what happened to some users.
I know they are a very low number of cases, but you know, saving money for an amp that you're afraid to use is not good.

I have bought it on Amazon, and don't know if I have to send it back and get another one (hoping its serial number does not start with 2009) or wait for more infos (I need to send back before 31th anyway).

Feels bad my first amp buying experience has to be "frustrating".

If you are in the US and want to avoid the anxiety, return it and get a JDS Labs Atom or Schiit Heresy. Each of them also measures extremely accurate, such that the L30, Atom, and Heresy should all be indistinguishable in sound quality from each other due to the limits of human hearing. And they can power difficult to drive headphones just as well. So your listening experience would be just as good.

 

[GGroch]

Add me to the list of those with an L30 murder/suicide. I purchased an L30 in Sept from HifiCollege thru Amazon. In early Nov. when I turned it on connected to a new pair of Philips Fidelio X3s it sent out a massive screech that blew out the left side of the phones. Fortunately the phones were 2 weeks old and Amazon replaced them.

HifiCollege replaced the L30 with a new one not requiring me to send back the old. I thought that was nice but a bit odd at the time. The new one's serial is 2007****, so it is certainly possible there will be future issues. I live in Denver and yes its quite dry here in the winters.

I have had great experiences with Topping in the past so I figured it was a fluke until I saw these thread updates. I am not sure how to react. My headphones are nearly all more expensive than this amp. As it has only been shipping since Sept. I cannot see how Topping can have good statistics on how many will fail within a year, or if the likelihood of failure increases with use/age. I do not feel comfortable using it, so reconnected my Atom. I do not feel comfortable selling it knowing it could fry again.
This is unsettling...but at least my house has not been breeched by rioters in loincloths...so there is that.

 

[half_dog]

@JohnYang1997 I was thinking about to connect the L30's case (by any of the back plate screw) to its ground circuit (by one of RCAs ground) using some washes and piece of wire. Is it a bad idea? Will L30 loose its performance?

 

[nxnje]

Why would you be worried because some people randomly pointed out a potential problem that would be related to a serial number?
There is literally no proof behind that statement, many people (including me) have a serial number that starts with 2009 and it works like a charm.

What kind of answer is this? I'm sure those guys that saw their headphones frying were enjoying the L30 a lot. Safety is not related to enjoyment, as I could enjoy my L30 even if it was defective (if I didn't know).
The issue here is that there are some cases of this, and so I'm not 100% sure when using it.
I don't know what do you do in your life, and I'm nobody to judge, but I'm a student and there are very rare cases in which I have something left after university bills, and other stuff, so every penny has to be super well spent. If I fry one of my headphones, I cannot buy another one the next day and nobody else is gonna buy a new pair for me, so yes, I have all the rights to be worried.

If you are in the US and want to avoid the anxiety, return it and get a JDS Labs Atom or Schiit Heresy. Each of them also measures extremely accurate, such that the L30, Atom, and Heresy should all be indistinguishable in sound quality from each other due to the limits of human hearing. And they can power difficult to drive headphones just as well. So your listening experience would be just as good.

No, I'm in Europe.
Fortunately, I have ordered from Amazon, so my purchase is "super safe". I will wait some days in order to figure out if Topping tells us more specific infos for users that have old batches. I don't feel comfortable using this, and for now I won't use it.
If there will be no further info, I will just send it back and buy something else. I wanna be 100% sure I won't damage anything connected to it.

 

[half_dog]

A picture with that aluminum part and with the internal board, just in case someone here could identify where it came off from?

I have opened only its back plate, I don't know how to fully disassemble it. As I told before, the chip of aluminum seems being from the internal thread. It might have got loose during assembly and dropped occasionally during transit... (sorry my english)

 

[Jose Hidalgo]

Topping must :

1. Find a technical solution to the L30 issue, or at least a workaround that doesn't degrade the amp performance.
   Like John said, they hope to get it done by february or so.
   
   
2. Offer a free L30 exchange to all L30 customers who request it, upon proof of purchase.
   Procedure should be easy and not handicapping for customers. For example :
   • Option 1 : Customer doesn't pay anything. He sends his L30. Topping receives it, checks it, and sends back a new L30.
   • Option 2 : Customer deposits a caution fee. Topping sends a new L30. The customer receives it and sends back the old L30. Topping receives it, checks it, and reimburses the caution fee.
     --> This would allow all customers who want it to receive a new L30 before sending back the old one, thus not being handicapped.
     
     
3. Fix the sent-back L30s (upgrade them to the latest revision) and sell them again as refurbished.

There is no other way IMHO.

 

[Blizz]

As you know me I'm very transparent. In previous respond, I have talked about the DC protection having some issues. With more detail, in 2 ways, threshold, and the protection of the opamp caused the circuit to not function properly. It's only solved in 2012(December 2020) batch. But I don't think others should worry too much. The likelihood of failed unit is still very small.
Current guess is towards ESD killed the opa1612 instead of tpa6120a2 as I initially guessed. We are purchasing an ESD test bench for this. Even though we know there's esd protection (limited) in opa1612 and no other products as I know have dedicated protection for it. And many products O2, El amp, magni have the same external transformer power supply + metal chassis. This is not something that overlooked but simply was not known very well at all in this field. To say the least, the beloved O2 does not have any DC protection or pop eliminating design at all. Only protection was under volt protection. That's where I start, that's what I loved.
I'm still designing and tweaking many new products. The same time also trying my best to get to the end of it.

Just to be sure are you by chance getting the S/N of the L30 mixed with the E30? I ordered the L30 stack from Apos 12/31 and my L30 is 2011 and my E30 is 2012. Despite the reported failures I have to say it sounds amazing and is a big upgrade from a Micca Origen g2. I hope I have a December unit so I can feel a little safer using it.

 

[Dr Schweinsgruber]

I'll get to the end of it eventually. And yes I think you got a good point it might be the batch.

In terms of damaged headphones. From policy, we are going to replace the unit (or refund) but won't give any compensation for damage to headphones. But each and every case is different. So we are also willing to handle each more extreme case individually. This not to say everyone won't be equal. It's just that we've seen many cases people just want to have a free unit, or get some compensation easy money. If we say out front hundreds of people are going to do this.

The existence of me really closes the gap between the company and the users. But one has to understand this is not a one guy's decision nor an easy decision. Every decision will need to account for consequences. I don't want to confuse the people, scare the people away nor let people down. I really don't worry about the company that much it's going well with everyone in the company. I really care about people here on this forum. You guys really mean something to me.

You may want to be interested in creating a win-win situation. Whatever you do now will reflect in your company's reputation - and ultimately in future sales. Considering that not many headphones have blown, replacing these is a sign of goodwill and may be much cheaper for Topping in the long run than being rigid.

 

[liu]

No headphones were harned in that case but the chip burnt. Then we tested it out that the DC protection didn't work all that well. So we improved it on the next batch which is December

you mentioned the threshold for the dc protection has been improved. So I assume it's just some capacitor/resistor change. Could you please share how DIYers could mod their previous batch L30s to use those updated values?

 

[Pillars]

In terms of damaged headphones. From policy, we are going to replace the unit (or refund) but won't give any compensation for damage to headphones. But each and every case is different. So we are also willing to handle each more extreme case individually. This not to say everyone won't be equal. It's just that we've seen many cases people just want to have a free unit, or get some compensation easy money. If we say out front hundreds of people are going to do this.

Or you could do the common sense thing and ask for the broken headphone and amp be shipped to you together for inspection. This seems like an excuse.

 

[bahamot]

Or you could do the common sense thing and ask for the broken headphone and amp be shipped to you together for inspection. This seems like an excuse.

John said they would handled it case by case. I think it's fair enough.

 

[Pillars]

John said they would handled it case by case. I think it's fair enough.

With several users stating they were just told by Topping they wouldn't cover it I think it's worth questioning. I'll let those folks post updates as things develop.

 

[GGroch]

John said they would handled it case by case. I think it's fair enough.

Leaving L30's with what is now a known engineering defect in the field would not seem a good business decision for Topping.

Currently there are no negative reviews on Amazon referencing this issue.** That will change quickly if it becomes known that an engineering flaw could cause the amps to self destruct taking expensive headphones with it, and that Topping may or may not cover the headphone damage.

I previously left 5 star reviews on Amazon for both the amp and my vendor because I thought the failure was a fluke and was so impressed by how quickly HiFicollege responded. I am happy to leave it up for now waiting word on possible solutions. I could not in good conscience leave it up long term now that I am aware that my first amp's failure was due to a design flaw and that the replacement with serial 2007 potentially has the same flaw. Is it irrational to fear using my replacement L30 with expensive headphones?

I would not expect that current owners of amps with serial numbers below 2012 will all remain silent whether they fail or not if no equitable solution is found. Nor should they. Paradoxically the issue might be different if Mr. Yang had been less forthcoming about the problem. Most manufacturer's feign surprise on every failure even when it is endemic.

**I see one "0" star review in Japanese that references a failure when the owner substituted a non-standard adapter. I see a couple of other zero star ratings with no review. I believe this sometimes indicates that the vendor made arrangements with the owner so that he would remove the review.

 

[Vini darko]

This all reminds me of the Chinese proverb "No good deed goes unpunished"

 

[Ricc]

As a new owner of this amp I would like you to suggest me how to proceed. I got a serial number 2010 and the other day I heard some random noises when not playing music, which might not be connected to the L30 itself but nevertheless got me a little worried, not much for my 99€ philips H2 I use it with, but for my own hearing in case something happens. Should I return the unit to amazon (I have 10 days left or so) and hope I get a newer unit? Here in Italy I don't think we'll get newer batches soon as it's not a big market.

 

[nxnje]

As a new owner of this amp I would like you to suggest me how to proceed. I got a serial number 2010 and the other day I heard some random noises when not playing music, which might not be connected to the L30 itself but nevertheless got me a little worried, not much for my 99€ philips H2 I use it with, but for my own hearing in case something happens. Should I return the unit to amazon (I have 10 days left or so) and hope I get a newer unit? Here in Italy I don't think we'll get newer batches soon as it's not a big market.

I am in Italy as well and I have bought it mostly to use it with my stuff and review samples that I get to review on my website.
This is a big "con" considering that getting loaner samples could happen and the risk of breaking loaner samples gets big, and i don't wana have to pay for loaner samples that get damaged as well, as Topping does not reimburse the earphones that get burnt with it.
My advise is to send it back until you can, plus, there's no more L30 page in amazon.it, and if I click in my orders it does not found any page (page does not exist): I guess sellers just stopped selling immediately after knowing this situation.
I think I'm sending it back and I'm waiting for further updates.
If I don't get any news, I'll maybe put my money on Schiit or JDS, so at least I know I can work with something safe.

 

[gegebinazzi]

I am in Italy as well and I have bought it mostly to use it with my stuff and review samples that I get to review on my website.
This is a big "con" considering that getting loaner samples could happen and the risk of breaking loaner samples gets big, and i don't wana have to pay for loaner samples that get damaged as well, as Topping does not reimburse the earphones that get burnt with it.
My advise is to send it back until you can, plus, there's no more L30 page in amazon.it, and if I click in my orders it does not found any page (page does not exist): I guess sellers just stopped selling immediately after knowing this situation.
I think I'm sending it back and I'm waiting for further updates.
If I don't get any news, I'll maybe put my money on Schiit or JDS, so at least I know I can work with something safe.

Fellow italian here whose headphone were fried from an L30. Amazon.it indeed removed the L30 from the store after my messages to them (the seller directly told me), the page of the item is now a 404, guess they don't want to risk other cases like mine

 

[ninetylol]

Mh seems to be a more serious issue than i thought. Will take my sundaras off the L30 till this is more clear.