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Focal Clear Review (headphone)

pwjazz

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Here is one my speaker killer tracks that sends the Focal Clear into a ditch: Pascal Gaigne - Un espejo en el cielo (From "Kamandú, un espejo en el cielo")

It does this with no EQ and with youtube clip:

Deep bass starts at 2:45 (none before that time) and it easily causes crackles at volume level of -18 dB on RME ADI-2 DAC headphone out (1/4 inch - high gain).

Cool track!

Okay, in an effort to reproduce your result, I tried volume matching to this, but with my HD58X on an Atom, since I don't have a Clear and an RME ADI-2. Here's what I did, please tell me if I did something wrong ...

Specs:

Focal Clear - 55 ohm, 104dB/mW sensitivity
HD58X - 150 ohm, 104dB/1V sensitivity

RME ADI DAC in high gain - 10Vrms output
JDS Labs Atom in high gain - 8.66rms output

Plugging these numbers into https://www.audiobot9000.com/headphones/calculator, I get the following approximate SPL at max volume in high gain:

Clear on RME - 136dB
HD58X on Atom - 122dB

So on full gain on my Atom, the HD58X is 14dB quieter than the Clear on the RME. You stated that you set the RME to -18dBFS, so I applied -4dB digital pre-gain to my signal so that in theory, I'm now level matched with you.

I turned down the volume on the Atom, started listening to the YouTube recording, then slowly started turning up the volume. Max volume on the Atom was frighteningly loud, even on the quiet part at the beginning, so I immediately backed off. For me, an appropriate listening level on this song is with the volume dial a good bit below the halfway point.

Coming at this from another angle, Stats for Nerds on that video shows that it hits YouTube's volume target without needing any adjustment, which I believe is -14dB LUFS. So at -18dBFS on the RME, that suggests you were listening at 104dB perceived loudness (not peaks), which is very very loud.

Am I understanding this correctly, or did I miss something? Can anyone who happens to have a Clear and an RME ADI2 DAC try to reproduce and see what you get?
 
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amirm

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Great review. 94dB SPL and 114dB SPL are very comfortable listening levels, your ears would still be in great shape after years of listening to those comfortable, relatively quiet listening levels.
Those are measurement levels, not listening levels.
 

Artaois

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There's gotta be something wrong with his Clears. They do have QC issues if you just look at the Elex board on Mass. Otherwise all this review will do is make people miss out on a great headphone. I do think that the Elex at the very recent price of $550 is a farrrrrr better deal though.
 
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amirm

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Focal Clear - 55 ohm, 104dB/mW sensitivity
HD58X - 150 ohm, 104dB/1V sensitivity
There are no standards for sensitivity measurements. And with varying frequency response, you can almost pick any number you want. They are basically marketing numbers with higher the better. The problem for this headphone is deep bass and no one is measuring such when it comes to sensitivity.
 
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amirm

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There's gotta be something wrong with his Clears.
No. Problem has been reported broadly online and by other owners in this thread. Here is the company itself:

The full quote here:
"Ce que vous décrivez est un phénomène connu mais il ne s'agit pas d'un défaut du casque.
Je m'explique, nous avons fait un choix dans la conception de nos casques haut de gamme. Ces derniers ont été conçus pour respecter au maximum la dynamique du signal audio plutôt que la dynamique de compression qui offrirait un SPL plus élevé mais respecterait moins le signal audio. Pour faire court, nous avons préféré favoriser la qualité acoustique au SPL, ce qui permet de bénéficier de performances optimales jusqu'à ce que le tallonnement arrive (le claquement entendu). Ainsi, sur certains morceaux, sur de très basses fréquences ou à très fort volume, vous pouvez entendre ce claquement. Cela existe également sur les enceintes hi-fi.
Par conséquent, échanger votre casque ne changera rien.
La seule solution que nous proposons est d'écouter à plus faible volume.
Bien cordialement,
Marine, Community Manager Focal"

https://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum...r-tests-hcfr-elear-elegia-t30074075-3255.html

And machine translation:

"What you are describing is a known phenomenon but it is not a defect of the helmet.
Let me explain, we made a choice in the design of our high-end helmets. The latter were designed to respect as much as possible the dynamics of the audio signal rather than the compression dynamics which would offer a higher SPL but would respect less the audio signal. In short, we preferred to favor the acoustic quality at the SPL, which allows us to benefit from optimal performance until the heightening occurs (the click heard). So, on some songs, at very low frequencies or at very high volume, you can hear this click. This also exists on hi-fi speakers.
Therefore, swapping in your helmet will not change anything.
The only solution we offer is to listen at a lower volume.
Best regards,
Marine, Focal Community Manager "


Couldn't be more clear, pun intended.

Now, if you think otherwise, contact Focal and ask them if they provide warranty service and deny the statement above. Don't keep posting as a fanboi. We can do without such.
 

KeithPhantom

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I don’t know why the more o get into “mainstream” headphones, the more they make scientific sense (at least following a target curve or a market-demanded frequency response). An example are IEMs, there are many that have different traits, but they have at least a glaring flaw but non-audiophile IEMs/TWS, even when not perfect, have less-objectionable faults of their own, specially with the latest Apple stuff. Another example is how my Beats Solo Pro sound better than headphones three or four times the price (at least subjectively) such as the LCD line.
 
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amirm

amirm

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@amirm - does the Focal Clear have a continuous or connected metal headband framework inside the outer plastic? Does it look like it can fail like the Elegia in the photo's in the review I linked?
I can't be 100% sure but it feels like a single continuous metal band.
 

hmscott

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I can't be 100% sure but it feels like a single continuous metal band.
@amirm, that would be awesome, maybe Focal has fixed their headband design for the Clear? Is that a new production unit? Perhaps you (or someone) can ask Focal so we know for sure if the headband is reinforced against failure? Thank you for checking!

That statement by Focal that this "clicking" (distortion) is normal, turn down the volume?!!

Then the Focal Clear is not for me, I'm certain my normal listening levels would show that "design feature" when that driver bottomed out and "clicked".
 
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KeithPhantom

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@amirm, that would be awesome, maybe Focal has fixed their headband design for the Clear? Is that a new production unit? Perhaps you (or someone) can ask Focal so we know for sure if the headband is reinforced against failure? Thank you for checking!
It also creaks.
 

pwjazz

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There are no standards for sensitivity measurements. And with varying frequency response, you can almost pick any number you want. They are basically marketing numbers with higher the better. The problem for this headphone is deep bass and no one is measuring such when it comes to sensitivity.

Both are specified at 1KHz. I used to have a Focal Elex which was about as loud as the HD58X at the same volume setting. The Clear has a similar driver but has a somewhat lower impedance, so I think the specifications pass the sniff test.
 

Artaois

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Yes I know it's a
No. Problem has been reported broadly online and by other owners in this thread. Here is the company itself:



And machine translation:

"What you are describing is a known phenomenon but it is not a defect of the helmet.
Let me explain, we made a choice in the design of our high-end helmets. The latter were designed to respect as much as possible the dynamics of the audio signal rather than the compression dynamics which would offer a higher SPL but would respect less the audio signal. In short, we preferred to favor the acoustic quality at the SPL, which allows us to benefit from optimal performance until the heightening occurs (the click heard). So, on some songs, at very low frequencies or at very high volume, you can hear this click. This also exists on hi-fi speakers.
Therefore, swapping in your helmet will not change anything.
The only solution we offer is to listen at a lower volume.
Best regards,
Marine, Focal Community Manager "


Couldn't be more clear, pun intended.

Now, if you think otherwise, contact Focal and ask them if they provide warranty service and deny the statement above. Don't keep posting as a fanboi. We can do without such.
Yes I know it's a self preservation design at high volumes. If it's happening at volumes less than intended then there is an issue. I'm not being a fanboy. There's plenty of others here who can't get their Focals to clip. This "review" is trying to paint them as a bad headphone and that's simply not true and in fact they are top tier.
 

Daaadou

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EDM music does NOT have the deep lows that cause the bottoming out. Indeed many speakers with poor low frequency response play EDM with ease. EDM has "bass" and plenty of it but it is not deep bass. When I get back to my workstation I will post some proper test tracks.
Yes, I would be much interested in having these test tracks.
I'd like to reproduce these to see if these HP are worth keeping. That's a bunch of money for a huge flaw and I would probably won't keep such HP.
If they would have ound good and have that flaw and be like 250, ok why not. Not at 1k€.
 

hmscott

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It also creaks.
Thanks, that's also a killer, but the real deal killer is that statement from Focal @amirm quoted a few posts back.

The statement by Focal that this "clicking" (distortion) is normal, turn down the volume?!!

Then the Focal Clear is not for me, I'm certain my normal listening levels would show that "design feature" when that driver bottomed out and "clicked".
 
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Haint

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Focal are replacing drivers that people say are "distorting", so apparently on a case by case basis they are. I haven't heard of anyone reporting they were denied RMA for driver replacement by Focal.

It sure would be tempting for a maker to deny replacement due to "that's how it's designed and made", but that would surely kill sales quickly.

Seeing so many complaints about failing Focal drivers - even when they are replaced by Focal - also weighs heavy on my decision to avoid Focal. The final straw was Focal denying that headband replacement to Trasselkalle (on head-fi).

I'm murder on headbands, but so far Sony are the only recent headphone maker whose headbands have regularly failed for me - Sony did replace those that failed before the warranty ran out, and Sony will repair headband failures outside of warranty, but it's really cheaper to find a newer Sony headphone and buy that.

Beyerdynamic, Sennheiser, SendyAudio, all are hanging in there with strong headbands. Now that I think about it the only other maker whose headband folded on me was Koss, and that was decades ago, Plantronics BT headphone cups disintegrated from use but the headband's held up fine.

I can't risk spending thousands of dollars on Focal headphones only to end up with a snapped headband and no recourse for repair. Focal's are too expensive to have unrepairable headband failures.

I think Focal can't deny the driver replacements, there is too high a percentage of failures and is too visible.

Perhaps the headband failures haven't gotten enough coverage for Focal to be forced to replace headband failures as they replace failed drivers.

I wonder how much these things actually cost them to manufacture. It has to be a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of $1500, so much so that driving away a single potential sale on warranty controversy must costs them more than just repairing a dozen people. Seems like bad business.
 

KeithPhantom

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Thanks, that's also a killer, but the real deal killer is that statement from Focal @amira quoted a few posts back.

The statement by Focal that this "clicking" (distortion) is normal, turn down the volume?!!

Then the Focal Clear is not for me, I'm certain my normal listening levels would show that "design feature" when that driver bottomed out and "clicked".
I had them and when testing for the “clicking”, I never got them to sound different than really loud. Maybe I got a lucky pair, but they are already gone, so I don’t have to worry about it anymore.
 

Artaois

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Thanks, that's also a killer, but the real deal killer is that statement from Focal @amira quoted a few posts back.

The statement by Focal that this "clicking" (distortion) is normal, turn down the volume?!!

Then the Focal Clear is not for me, I'm certain my normal listening levels would show that "design feature" when that driver bottomed out and "clicked".
If people are really interested in them then they should try them and return them if not satisfactory. I think headphones.com has like a 1 year return policy. I was worried about ordering the Elex because of the reported problems but so far so good and I'm glad I did.
 

KeithPhantom

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I wonder how much these things actually cost them to manufacture. It has to be a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of $1500, so much so that driving away a single potential sale on warranty controversy must costs them more than just repairing a dozen people. Seems like bad business.
As a finance major and skilled at managerial accounting, I can say that the costs are less than very small shops like ZMF, but more than very-large-scale manufacturers such as Sennheiser. I would calculate the a good approximation if I had something like a bill of materials and a good estimate of their manufacturing overhead, but that’s wasted time in my opinion.
 

hmscott

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This "review" is trying to paint them as a bad headphone and that's simply not true and in fact they are top tier.
This particular pair of headphones, the Focal Clear headphones themselves, are the root cause for them to be painted as bad headphones.

That's the point of testing like @amirm is doing. To actually find out how headphones perform, by testing for measurements - to actually know with reproducible certainty how something performs before buying it.

The fact that Focal headphones fail so often and yet are "top tier" is all due to marketing and those that parrot the marketing without sharing their failures for fear of losing value in their investment - the cost of the headphones for resale value.

The higher the cost of an item the more likely owners will hide the problems and praise the product by affirming the marketing.

You can still buy stuff that doesn't measure well, but at least you know why you are hearing and seeing what you are experiencing. It's not your particular unit that has problems, or it's not you that's set it up wrong, it's not your fault...

The root cause of the failure is shown with some fine degree of certainty in the measurements.
 
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Daaadou

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Yet another one of my speaker killers: Burak Malçok - Toz Ruhu

This brings out the problem right at the start:


Level about 17 on RME. The track is not loud at all. The deep bass is there but not loud either. Yet it crackles the poor Forcal Clears.

BTW, these last two tracks are music I like. They are not pathological tracks picked to stress things. I saved them as listening to these albums on my Revel Salon 2 speaker and having them sound wonderful. The Focal Clear as such simply is not suitable for my everyday use.
Excellent track !
 

hmscott

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I wonder how much these things actually cost them to manufacture. It has to be a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of $1500, so much so that driving away a single potential sale on warranty controversy must costs them more than just repairing a dozen people. Seems like bad business.
That's what I don't understand, send the victums of headband failure a new headphone - and quickly with a smile - keep good customer relations.

And then design a better headband that won't fail.

It might be that the driver failures are already costing Focal a lot of money (profit) and the headband failure is an even more costly repair - even with a swap Focal will want to refurbish the old unit.

Perhaps Focal drew a "line in the sand" to staunch losses when it comes to headband failures. Focal instead puts the blame on the owner for the headband failure.
 
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