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Amphion studio monitors

Ilkless

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Oh, and amhion have two product lines. Hifi and studio, so those measurements above about heliums and such dont compaire with ones series.

I'm not sure if that's the compliment you think it is. The studio line has even worse engineering.

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I'm not sure in what world is that acceptable, except to the cult of personality built around non-acoustic reasons such as a romanticised backstory and aesthetics.
 

Jazmanaut

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So what and where are those graphs from?
Those definedly differ from my measurements, on the room, from the listening position.
 

q3cpma

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So what and where are those graphs from?
Those definedly differ from my measurements, on the room, from the listening position.
https://www.soundandrecording.de/eq...2-wege-monitor-mit-externer-endstufe-im-test/
Other problems:
* Dissapointing distorsion performance when you consider A weighting and the usual musical spectrum; it'll be limited by its midrange that can't even reach what the small KH120A or 8030C can do, basically.
* Massive 500 Hz resonance.
* Beaming after 10 kHz.

See the 8350A, for comparison: https://www.soundandrecording.de/equipment/studiomonitore-im-test-genelec-8350a/, which should give you insight in the similarly priced 8050B. RCF Mytho 6 was also measured by SAR and is incredibly better and cheaper.

Considering the price of 2700 + 1600 € for the speaker/amplifier combo, this is insulting. You can get the 8350A or KH310 for this; and get the room correction package latter. If the 150€ 2.5 m cables in the "Accessories" question doesn't tell you everything about the company, I don't know what will.
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Jazmanaut

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Those measurements are absurd! At least how i see, and i nicht sprechen German.
They are measuring distortion levels above 100dB! Thats like PA levels for nearfield studiomonitors, that you are usually listening on average 85dB.
I really hope, that Amir does proper measurements someday.
Btw, have you actually heard them in proper room?
And that 500Hz. Yes it´s a bit hot, like 1.5dB, but where that ”Massive resonance” came from? :D
 
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Pearljam5000

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Oh, and amhion have two product lines. Hifi and studio, so those measurements above about heliums and such dont compaire with ones series.
It would be interesting to see one of their pro monitors measured because they're also very popular on Gearslutzz on the other hand so is ATC and those also measure badly
 

Jazmanaut

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Actually, if you search that massive GS topic, there is pretty good measurements and quite deep analysis on them.
 

andreasmaaan

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Those measurements are absurd! At least how i see, and i nicht sprechen German.
They are measuring distortion levels above 100dB! Thats like PA levels for nearfield studiomonitors, that you are usually listening on average 85dB.

Their distortion measurements are different to other publications, but actually more useful IMO.

What they do is drive the speaker until it produces 3% THD at a given frequency. They then plot the SPL at which the speaker hits this 3% threshold vs frequency (red trace) from 50Hz to 20,000Hz. Below 300Hz, they then do an additional measurement, but with the threshold raised to 10% THD (blue trace).

1608470422793.png


This is very useful for gauging a loudspeaker's SPL capabalities IMO (and the Amphion doesn't do badly for its size FWIW).

However, when @Ilkless and @q3cpma say the speaker measures poorly, I believe they're talking mostly about its frequency response and off-axis radiation.
 

q3cpma

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Those measurements are absurd! At least how i see, and i nicht sprechen German.
They are measuring distortion levels above 100dB! Thats like PA levels for nearfield studiomonitors, that you are usually listening on average 85dB.
With 85 dB average, what about the peaks? Think about classical. Also, this is at 1 m, I expect a monitor with a 7" woofer to keep its composure at greater distances.

And that 500Hz. Yes it´s a bit hot, like 1.5dB, but where that ”Massive resonance” came from? :D
See the spectrogram:
ONE18SPC-Spek.jpg
 
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Grotti

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I own a pair of Argon 3S (quite similar to one 18) and I know about the flaws measured by some. At least the DSP between my ears got familiar with it and I enjoy my speakers.

I think this is what counts....
 

Jazmanaut

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Yes, that spectrogram view shows that its slightly elevated, and rings ”massively” 1ms at -10dB longer than rest of the spectrum.
What about peaks? If you listen 85dB average, and speakers can produce way over 100dB at 3% distortion, there is massive amount of dynamics.
If you need more, buy a bigger model, like two18, and then those bass extensions, for even more control and dynamics.
 

q3cpma

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Yes, that spectrogram view shows that its slightly elevated, and rings ”massively” 1ms at -10dB longer than rest of the spectrum.
What about peaks? If you listen 85dB average, and speakers can produce way over 100dB at 3% distortion, there is massive amount of dynamics.
If you need more, buy a bigger model, like two18, and then those bass extensions, for even more control and dynamics.
The thing is that you can't say this without looking at the competition, as if we were in a void. Both the 8350A and KH310A are around 3500~3600€ a pair, while this is 2700, leaving a reasonable 800~900€ for the amplifier.

EDIT: they're at 2250€ in France, so less expensive than MSRP. Still not good enough for the price, when the Finnish and German competition is simply better; and Amphion doesn't even offer more than the standard 2 year warranty.
 
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Ilkless

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The apologism strikes me as quite alike that for ATC - both brands bear a superficial commitment to good engineering, enough for a cult of personality to fill in for the rest of the poor performance.
 
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Pearljam5000

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The apologism strikes me as quite alike that for ATC - both brands bear a superficial commitment to good engineering, enough for a cult of personality to fill in for the rest of the poor performance.
When i lived on Gearslutz before i found out about ASR i was sure ATC monitors were God's gift to men :p
 

Jazmanaut

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When i was looking new monitors to my mastering suite, my budget was 10K€ and i actually listened a huge amount of speakers in that price range, over an year period.
The first time i heard amphion one18 in my studio i was blown away. This is the sound i have allways been hunting! and after working with them for a while, i could toss off all the other reference monitors i had, because they just translate so marvelously well.
So i just paired them with a genelec 7070a sub, and loved them to the death since.

And if i find something better, i wont hesitate to change my system. But i still have not heard anything that beats them. (Those Genelec 8361 SAM:s are pretty amazing tho!)
So before bashing them just because you find some strange measurements from internet, just give them a go.
 

andreasmaaan

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When i was looking new monitors to my mastering suite, my budget was 10K€ and i actually listened a huge amount of speakers in that price range, over an year period.
The first time i heard amphion one18 in my studio i was blown away. This is the sound i have allways been hunting! and after working with them for a while, i could toss off all the other reference monitors i had, because they just translate so marvelously well.
So i just paired them with a genelec 7070a sub, and loved them to the death since.

And if i find something better, i wont hesitate to change my system. But i still have not heard anything that beats them. (Those Genelec 8361 SAM:s are pretty amazing tho!)
So before bashing them, just because you find some strange measurements from internet, just give them a go.

Sound&Recording's measurements are highly reliable. Ofc I'm not saying you're wrong to like the speakers, but you would be wrong to cast doubt on the accuracy of the measurements (if indeed that's what you meant to do).
 

Ilkless

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strange measurements from internet, just give them a go.

No, they were executed by an esteemed audio engineering professor (and a co-author with none other than Wolfgang Klippel), in a university anechoic chamber, if you bothered to search elsewhere on this forum. His measurements are justifiably very highly-regarded here, on par with Amir's as a whole. Second in accuracy for the core measurements to only Amir's NFS measurements, but he executes some important miscellaneous measurements Amir doesn't (max SPL, intermodulation).
 

Da cynics

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How do you think it is so popular even though it is ordinary in measurement?
Other than psychological factors
 

Grotti

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I would not defend the speakers: there are better ones out there when it comes to measurements.

But they have a certain sound signature, which obviously makes them attractive to a certain group of customers obviously. I am one of them....
 

q3cpma

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How do you think it is so popular even though it is ordinary in measurement?
Other than psychological factors
Could be the quite good vertical directivity for a non coaxial layout and passive radiator vs most brands having resonance problems with ports. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure that the look is the primary factor.
 

andreasmaaan

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Could be the quite good vertical directivity for a non coaxial layout and passive radiator vs most brands having resonance problems with ports. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure that the look is the primary factor.

+1

This speaker does quite a few things very well. It's probably the best Amphion I've seen measured (admittedly, that's not saying much).
 
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