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MDAguy

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China built their economy with Western capitalists bending over big-time(minor ownership of investments) for profits using cheap labour and stable government control.

You judge who had the smarts.

oh, it's clear who is smarter... the 1.5 billion people who's standard of living has skyrocketed why the average western worker is doing worse than he's ever done... Thanks to corporate greed, lobbying of politicians, it will not change anytime soon...

Came across another great video here:

 

renaudrenaud

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Not necessarily, but in many cases, stuff made in China is of an inferior quality for a multitude of reasons ... but even were it not, I'm not a fan (and many feel the same way) of their labor practices, their human rights record, their record on dumping into the environment, and their business ethics (pirating, copying proprietary technology, etc)..

Here... from the horses mouth why it's sketchy sometimes to go with Chinese made anything ...

https://smart-hkg.com/why-the-goods-are-low-quality/

Thank you for your answer.

I lived and worked in China. I love the country. I think it's more political point of view and from my point you cannot understand the country if you use your occidental analysis grid.
 
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MDAguy

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Thank you for your answer.

I lived and worked in China. I love the country. I think it's more political point of view and from my point you cannot understand the country if you use your occidental analysis grid.

Never lived there, but I traveled to China a lot for work.... love the culture , the history, the art, not so much a fan of the food, but no doubt the people are a good people... the problem is their politics, and their system of government.. which spills into their business practices.
 
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Wombat

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Never lived there, but I traveled to China a lot for work.... love the culture , the history, the art, not so much a fan of the food, but no doubt the people are a good people... the problem is their politics, and their system of government.. which spills into their business practices.


Business and politics are entwined in all cultures. Wheeling and dealing is normal. Winners and losers result. The Chinese have caught up. That's life. Stay tuned, nothing remains the same. ;)
 

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Is there a reason (engineering, manufacturing ease, or regulatory) why power cords are not hard wired to the machine? My older gear (Dyna, Yamaha) is that way, but my Benchmark uses a locking plug for the AC cord.

I first encountered plug-in cords with PCs. I never much liked them for the loose fit and potential for coming out. Certainly a standard plug-in cord doesn't seem to be as solid as something hard wired, or the locking type Benchmark uses. Is the McIntosh a locking cord?
 

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Is there a reason (engineering, manufacturing ease, or regulatory) why power cords are not hard wired to the machine? My older gear (Dyna, Yamaha) is that way, but my Benchmark uses a locking plug for the AC cord.

I first encountered plug-in cords with PCs. I never much liked them for the loose fit and potential for coming out. Certainly a standard plug-in cord doesn't seem to be as solid as something hard wired, or the locking type Benchmark uses. Is the McIntosh a locking cord?

The reason is simple. Products can be shipped to any market with the correct power cord (plug) and switchable voltage easily.

Nothing better than a hardwired mains lead, but they are becoming increasingly rare. Personally, I don't like IEC 3 pins, they are an unnecessary set of contacts, prone to arcing, increased resistance, heating, phyiscal damage and failure. But it is, what it is.
 
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Doodski

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I don't like IEC 3 pins, they are an unnecessary set of contacts, prone to arcing, high resistance, heating and failure.
That's for sure. I worked at a instrument shop nights part time for a couple of years and everything went out the door with new power cables. The used ones caused many issues.
 

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well, before I dropped $23000 on their stuff, I asked point blank ... are there parts from China, and Tim Deis, their manager of production told me absolutely no... Japan, Germany, France. Belgium, UK, Taiwan and Korea yes however... I have to take them for their word.

He stressed that most of their capacitors, resistors, transistors, diodes, etc are US origin.
The heat sinks on current production McIntosh kit are completely made in China. The WIMA caps are made in Germany. The raw materials used to make the pcb boards are using rare earth metals mined in mines in China. Same goes for any electronic device including the Thermatrak transistors, the aforementioned WIMA caps, the aluminum used in the chassis. Most silicon and other high tech devices use rare earth metals and China is a huge source of that for decades now.
 

Doodski

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The heat sinks on current production McIntosh kit are completely made in China. The WIMA caps are made in Germany. The raw materials used to make the pcb boards are using rare earth metals mined in mines in China. Same goes for any electronic device including the Thermatrak transistors, the aforementioned WIMA caps, the aluminum used in the chassis. Most silicon and other high tech devices use rare earth metals and China is a huge source of that for decades now.
I read somewhere that rare earth mines are being opened or reopened in Canada and the USA due to the China rare earths issue a couple of years ago.
 

restorer-john

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I read somewhere that rare earth mines are being opened or reopened in Canada and the USA due to the China rare earths issue a couple of years ago.

And here in Australia.

China buys a huge amount of bauxite from us, so much of the aluminium may just be value-added Australian ore.

The heat sinks on current production McIntosh kit are completely made in China.

Personally, I'd rather see those heatsinks processed here: extruded, anodised and finished here in Australia and shipped to our US mates. :)
 

MakeMineVinyl

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McIntosh using a Chinese part, even something like this would be scandalous! My initial post clearly implies this, but I am purely speculating, and we will likely never know.
It's very difficult to find electronic parts which are not made in "China" these days. It would be essentially impossible to build something like an amplifier using only USA made parts.
 
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anmpr1

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It's very difficult to find electronic parts which are not made in China these days.
It's difficult to find anything made elsewhere. Some Chinese owned companies have, however, outsourced to SE Asia, as the labor is cheaper, there. For example, Shenzhen, a big manufacturing point, is one of the most expensive cities to live in.

Manufacturing costs in US have to be through the roof. With guitars, an Epiphone Texan made in USA is $2600.00. The Asian (Qingdao, I believe) version is $700.00. My Epi Les Paul was two thousand dollars cheaper than the Gibson. Obviously the materials on the Gibson are better, but not that much better. I swapped out the Epiphone electronics with Seymour Duncan, which are made in US--I don't know where SD's wire and magnets come from. For all I know they could be sourced overseas.

Benchmark is made a few miles north of McIntosh. I don't know how Benchmark offers their products at what seems to me a pretty reasonable price. Nothing like the price of Mac product. Of course cosmetics of the latter are a different matter. Iron, glass, and blue meters are a big part of McIntosh pricing, I'm sure. But look at Accuphase. Those prices are orbiting Jupiter, somewhere. Japan has to be an expensive place to do business, also. I think most of the affordable Yamaha gear is sourced from Malaysia, or somewhere similar.
 
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MDAguy

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The heat sinks on current production McIntosh kit are completely made in China. The WIMA caps are made in Germany. The raw materials used to make the pcb boards are using rare earth metals mined in mines in China. Same goes for any electronic device including the Thermatrak transistors, the aforementioned WIMA caps, the aluminum used in the chassis. Most silicon and other high tech devices use rare earth metals and China is a huge source of that for decades now.

I just called McIntosh and asked specifically... and they unequivocally deny the part about the heatsinks (which are cast in New York) and the electronic devices which are mostly sourced in the USA, but also from Taiwan, Korea, the UK, and Germany but to name a few.... as to where raw materials are mined, that's completely not relevant as the regulation for what can be labeled "made in the USA" is specific on this... raw materials aren't at all relevant.. the PCB's are made in New York, and it's the overall content of cost/work and labor, which is addressed here, and they meet his: https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/advertising-and-marketing/made-in-usa
 
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MDAguy

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It's very difficult to find electronic parts which are not made in "China" these days. It would be essentially impossible to build something like an amplifier using only USA made parts.

absolutely not true... not only did McIntosh assure me that all electronic components are not of China origin (be careful to understand that Taiwan IS NOT China)... but also, dCS told me the same of their product line... Most of which is EU made and some Taiwan and USA.. If I could contact Accuphase, I'd ask the same, and I assume most of theirs is Japan.
 
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Benchmark is made a few miles north of McIntosh. I don't know how Benchmark offers their products at what seems to me a pretty reasonable price. Nothing like the price of Mac product. Of course cosmetics of the latter are a different matter. Iron, glass, and blue meters are a big part of McIntosh pricing, I'm sure. But look at Accuphase. Those prices are orbiting Jupiter, somewhere. Japan has to be an expensive place to do business, also. I think most of the affordable Yamaha gear is sourced from Malaysia, or somewhere similar.

I just got off the phone with Dick, their buyer for all of their factory.... there are a "handful" of items from China and a few more from Malaysia, but the overwhelming content is USA, and some Japan, Taiwan and Europe... he said if he had to put a % on it, maybe 5% Chinese parts, a tiny bit more with Tube products. They sound very much like McIntosh in their philosophy.

BTW... he said A LOT of this stuff happened under the Trump administration where many companies cut ties with China. This is one this I strongly agreed with the Trump administration and hope Biden continues the path (doubt he will, as he's bough and paid for by the likes of Apple, Google, Amazon and such)..
 
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BDWoody

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BTW... he said A LOT of this stuff happened under the Trump administration where many companies cut ties with China. This is one this I strongly agreed with the Trump administration and hope Biden continues the path (debut he will, as he's bough and paid for by the likes of Apple, Google, Amazing and such)..

Let's not even start down that road please.
 
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MDAguy

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Let's not even start down that road please.

sorry, stops here... it was relevant to the discussion as it was brought up by Dick at Benchmark, or I wouldn't have gone there.... consider it done.

more ashamed of the autocorrect typos than anything else to be honest which I edited in my post but now live immortally in your quote :p
 
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MakeMineVinyl

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absolutely not true... not only did McIntosh assure me that all electronic components are not of China origin (be careful to understand that Taiwan IS NOT China)... but also, dCS told me the same of their product line... Most of which is EU made and some Taiwan and USA.. If I could contact Accuphase, I'd ask the same, and I assume most of theirs is Japan.
Let me revise that to say "made somewhere other than USA", and I am absolutely correct. Working at a rather large manufacturer of audio gear from high end on down, It is indeed rare to find the component parts made in USA; everything from resistors, capacitors, semiconductors, transformers on down, all made elsewhere. Even component companies which are USA based outsource their manufacturing to other countries - it just doesn't make economic sense to do otherwise.

Typically sheet metal chassis parts are made locally and perhaps a few other items, but things like faceplates, heatsinks and some other metalwork is typically not made in the USA. Again cost. Companies like Schitt (and perhaps McIntosh) may have their circuit boards made and stuffed in the USA, but the component parts that go on to those boards are not. I know McIntosh makes their own metalwork, but I think they are carefully parsing their words in what they said to you. If they are using electronic components which are indeed made in USA completely, I'd sure like to have the item description and part #. ;)
 
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MDAguy

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Let me revise that to say "made somewhere other than USA", and I am absolutely correct. Working at a rather large manufacturer of audio gear from high end on down, It is indeed rare to find the component parts made in USA; everything from resistors, capacitors, semiconductors, transformers on down, all made elsewhere. Even component companies which are USA based outsource their manufacturing to other countries - it just doesn't make economic sense to do otherwise.

Typically sheet metal chassis parts are made locally and perhaps a few other items, but things like faceplates, heatsinks and some other metalwork is typically not made in the USA. Again cost. Companies like Schitt (and perhaps McIntosh) may have their circuit boards made and stuffed in the USA, but the component parts that go on to those boards are not. I know McIntosh makes their own metalwork, but I think they are carefully parsing their words in what they said to you.

please see my post just above yours ^^^ ... maybe your companies are seeking low cost items, but apparently the majority of such components ARE made in the USA...
 
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