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Does lossless really matter?

waynel

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I have been using Tidal (Hi-Fi and Master quality) for almost half a year.

Recently i started using Free Spotify (160 kbps) and it’s surprisingly very good sounding.

There is this soothing sensation behind the imperfections you hear, kind of like of listening to Vinyl.

I feel like the sound with lossless is very technical and can quickly fatigue you.

What are you your experiences?

I understand that lossy compression is perceptually encoded so as to not be noticeable most of the time to most people. What concerns me is once DSP room correction as well as digital volume control are applied what guaranty is there that the lossy compression doesn't become audible? I'm no advocate of HiRes but CD quality (or FLAC or Apple lossless etc..) seems compact enough for modern networks to handle.
 

Blujackaal

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Vorbis these days is pretty much transparent at 160kbps 99.9% of the time, 256kbps is over kill. I only use 320k Vorbis when a song craps the bed which pretty rare beyond the odd Noise album like Merzbow. Can't stand AAC/MP3 since i get either horrid ringing and pre echo, Vorbis fail sound is puffy wind but using 320k always fixes it.

I don't see the point in Opus either since it can't handle synth/classical sounds without bit rate bloat at 160k where the songs average 190 ~ 300k?.
 
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abdo123

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Vorbis these days is pretty much transparent at 160kbps 99.9% of the time, 256kbps is over kill. I only use 320k Vorbis when a song craps the bed which pretty rare beyond the odd Noise album like Merzbow. Can't stand AAC/MP3 since i get either horrid ringing and pre echo, Vorbis fail sound is puffy wind but using 320k always fixes it.

I don't see the point in Opus either since it can't handle synth/classical sounds without bit rate bloat at 160k where the songs average 190 ~ 300k?.

Apple’s AAC is also a very good contender imo, they dominated the digital world for a really long time.
 
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abdo123

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When I can detect lossy compression artifacts, I don't find them soothing or vinyl-like.

No no I didn’t mean artifacts. With lossless digital all the frequencies sound detangled and you can hear them independently. Which for me is fatiguing. Does that make sense?
 

mocenigo

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I have been using Tidal (Hi-Fi and Master quality) for almost half a year.

Recently i started using Free Spotify (160 kbps) and it’s surprisingly very good sounding.

There is this soothing sensation behind the imperfections you hear, kind of like of listening to Vinyl.

I feel like the sound with lossless is very technical and can quickly fatigue you.

What are you your experiences?

IF you can hear the difference AND the difference matters to you, THEN pick the version of a recording whose sound you prefer.

Otherwise it would be just a waste of resources. And the planet is finite. What some audiophiles are doing, by going automatically for the largest files, the heaviest processing, even if they are not themselves sure of whether they perceive an improvement, is not very responsible.
 

Blujackaal

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Apple’s AAC is also a very good contender imo, they dominated the digital world for a really long time.

Apple AAC is just okay, There too many samples that break it and don't sound transparent even at 320k CVBR. It why I would stick with Spotify in 320kbps mode since it pretty much perceptually lossless to my ears, Where still a long way from 1+ TB sd cards being only $35.99 and audiophile hyping them. I don't have the $$$ to shell out for a 256GB card or care when 160k Vorbis sounds fantastic.
 
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abdo123

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IF you can hear the difference AND the difference matters to you, THEN pick the version of a recording whose sound you prefer.

Otherwise it would be just a waste of resources. And the planet is finite. What some audiophiles are doing, by going automatically for the largest files, the heaviest processing, even if they are not themselves sure of whether they perceive an improvement, is not very responsible.

Some members here use 1000W subwoofers for casual listening, kind of insane tbh.
 

escape2

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Vorbis these days is pretty much transparent at 160kbps 99.9% of the time, 256kbps is over kill. I only use 320k Vorbis when a song craps the bed which pretty rare beyond the odd Noise album like Merzbow. Can't stand AAC/MP3 since i get either horrid ringing and pre echo, Vorbis fail sound is puffy wind but using 320k always fixes it.
I thought you were a fan of MP3, based on this recent reply? :)
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...z-vs-spotify-vs-apple-music.12062/post-591566
 

escape2

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Apple AAC is just okay, There too many samples that break it and don't sound transparent even at 320k CVBR. It why I would stick with Spotify in 320kbps mode since it pretty much perceptually lossless to my ears, sounds fantastic.
Based on what is posted on Spotify's website, they don't actually stream at 320kbps. They say it's "Equivalent to approximately 320kbit/s." In reality it could mean 256 kbps AAC or OGG because most consider it equivalent to 320 kbps MP3.
 
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abdo123

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My subs (2 of them) have 1300W peak, whether I'm seriously listening or casually listening.

I can't reduce the amp when I'm being casual.

What i meant by casual listening as in your everyday use. Not in a studio or a club for example.
 

pjug

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Gapless has nothing to do with codecs or formats. And yes Spotify can do gapless perfectly.
I just tried free Spotify and the gapless does seem pretty much perfect. Good to know that in case Qobuz and Deezer are not able to stay in business over the long haul.
 
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abdo123

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Yes.

I'm talking about for my every day use.

In my living room.

I’m genuinely curious why you use such incredibly inefficient gear. Unless you live in Saudi Arabia the power bill must be insane.

Are there even any Class D amps that can reach such capacities?
 

watchnerd

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I’m genuinely curious why you use such incredibly inefficient gear. Unless you live in Saudi Arabia the power bill must be insane.

Are there even any Class D amps that can reach such capacities?

???

The amps in the subs are Class D.
 

andreasmaaan

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I understand that lossy compression is perceptually encoded so as to not be noticeable most of the time to most people. What concerns me is once DSP room correction as well as digital volume control are applied what guaranty is there that the lossy compression doesn't become audible? I'm no advocate of HiRes but CD quality (or FLAC or Apple lossless etc..) seems compact enough for modern networks to handle.

Could you explain how this would be? I'm not sure I follow..
 

watchnerd

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Now i'm even more curious, what amp are you using?

Okay, to make sure we're on the same page:

My mains are powered by a Devialet Expert 400 -- this is a dual mono Class A/D hybrid, 400 watts per channel.

The dual subs are 2 x Martin Logan Dynamo 1100X -- they each have their own 650 watt / 1300 watt peak amp built-in.
 
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