Tidal vs. Deezer vs. Qobuz vs. Spotify vs. Apple Music

[Alexanderc]

Qobuz has a family plan now. Just in case that’s still of interest.

 

[trl]

Qobuz has a family plan now. Just in case that’s still of interest.

Not in all countries, unfortunatelly.

 

[Alexanderc]

Not in all countries, unfortunatelly.

I can’t even find in what countries the Qobuz family plan is available. Looks like only the UK and US right now.

 

[bithead007]

Thanks for the great discussion in this thread. As it isn't too old now, I hope you don't mind that I give it a slight bump. I agree that freq. response and spectral analysis is a perfectly valid thing to look at. Listening preferences can vary with the equipment, the grey matter between the ears, and the Rx's that the subject is under the influence of but is nevertheless important as well.

But what I am really wondering is why group delay/phase studies are not undertaken in this thread. As group delay is a measurement of the way different frequencies are passed through the system (different lags) this seems important. Phase effects set in a full octave before the inaudible frequency range (if memory serves) and so I'd expect that to have a measureable effect on the different services. In other words, amplitude is important, but there is a reason we always measured phase back in the days when I was using HP 3577 and 8510 network analyzers on a daily basis.

Thanks! CJ

 

[Metronoam]

I had Tidal, Spotify Premium, and a Rega Planet CD Player for years. I compared tracks on streaming services and could not hear a difference, I felt I was kidding myself. When I switched to a cd it was night and day. The CD player produced tracks with a depth of field that was totally amiss on Spotify AND Tidal. It WAS track and albumin dependent but was there for sure. I’d like to know how these streaming services acquire and manage files(?) Are they buying a huge data dump direct from major labels(?). I doubt there’s a guy named Dave ripping cds onto their servers. How do these streaming services assure 16 bit or even 320k bit integrity with there massive (10 million tracks ) databases?
QUOTE="Fluffy, post: 351603, member: 9668"]I'm sorry, but you did not prove that. you are assuming that what you measured for this track is what you will measure for all tracks, and this is not the case. Without measuring more tracks, you are extrapolating conclusions based on too little evidence.

I'll show you what I mean. I currently only have a Deezer account, so I can only demonstrate with it, but I found similar cases when I had Tidal.
Here is the first 30 seconds of the track Dc10 from the album TRYPNOTYX, on "High Fidelity":
View attachment 54515

The same 30 seconds on "better" quality:
View attachment 54514

And on "standard":
View attachment 54513

And another example, the first 30 seconds of A moment of Insight by The Fading, from the album Till Life Do Us Part (high fidelity quality):
View attachment 54512

I know for a fact that the Tidal version of The Fading song is the same.

This comes to show that these services don't necessarily assure that files in their database are actually derived from lossless 44.1khz/16 bit masters. Those couple of examples might be rare outliers, but that is enough to prove that that thing can happen.
That is why, if you want to compare the incoming stream from these services, you need to do it across several different tracks, to make sure the differences you find are consistent.[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry, but you did not prove that. you are assuming that what you measured for this track is what you will measure for all tracks, and this is not the case. Without measuring more tracks, you are extrapolating conclusions based on too little evidence.

I'll show you what I mean. I currently only have a Deezer account, so I can only demonstrate with it, but I found similar cases when I had Tidal.
Here is the first 30 seconds of the track Dc10 from the album TRYPNOTYX, on "High Fidelity":
View attachment 54515

The same 30 seconds on "better" quality:
View attachment 54514

And on "standard":
View attachment 54513

And another example, the first 30 seconds of A moment of Insight by The Fading, from the album Till Life Do Us Part (high fidelity quality):
View attachment 54512

I know for a fact that the Tidal version of The Fading song is the same.

This comes to show that these services don't necessarily assure that files in their database are actually derived from lossless 44.1khz/16 bit masters. Those couple of examples might be rare outliers, but that is enough to prove that that thing can happen.
That is why, if you want to compare the incoming stream from these services, you need to do it across several different tracks, to make sure the differences you find are consistent.

 

[zepplock]

Thanks for the great discussion in this thread. As it isn't too old now, I hope you don't mind that I give it a slight bump. I agree that freq. response and spectral analysis is a perfectly valid thing to look at. Listening preferences can vary with the equipment, the grey matter between the ears, and the Rx's that the subject is under the influence of but is nevertheless important as well.

But what I am really wondering is why group delay/phase studies are not undertaken in this thread. As group delay is a measurement of the way different frequencies are passed through the system (different lags) this seems important. Phase effects set in a full octave before the inaudible frequency range (if memory serves) and so I'd expect that to have a measureable effect on the different services. In other words, amplitude is important, but there is a reason we always measured phase back in the days when I was using HP 3577 and 8510 network analyzers on a daily basis.

Thanks! CJ

this has nothing to do with how digital data is stored, retransmitted, and converted to analog.

 

[abdo123]

I really doubt the people who say i cannot tell the difference between Spotify and Tidal.

I mean even when playing the track on my phone, i can hear a difference.

I’m in my early 20s though, idk if i will experience these things the same in 15 or 20 years

 

[valerianf]

The roll of in the high frequencies is very important because nobody want to pay a HD music service that delivered a truncated bandwidth.
Another issue with streaming services may be a reduced dynamic compared with the original file.

From now I am fully satisfied with Amazon Music HD. But I needed to switch to the last Fire TV 4k stick to get the additional quality. Audio output is DD+ (48khz measured and I am guessing 16 bits of quantification).

 

[ririt]

I can’t even find in what countries the Qobuz family plan is available. Looks like only the UK and US right now.

No it is also available in France now but I don‘t know for the rest of Europe and Asia

 

[Katji]

Qobuz is based in France, so it should be. It seems odd to me that something online/streaming would not be available to all EU. ...The only difference I can think of is language support, for UI.

Interesting story I read yesterday; it seems Youtube Music is planning to increase market share. Although last time I looked at the pricing, it seemed more expensive.
Inside YouTube’s plan to win the music-streaming wars.
YouTube has always been important to the music business. Now, with YouTube Music, it's trying to build a music universe Spotify and Apple can't touch.

 

[trl]

When I switched to a cd it was night and day. The CD player produced tracks with a depth of field that was totally amiss on Spotify AND Tidal.

I’m in my early 20s though, idk if i will experience these things the same in 15 or 20 years

It's all about the follow:
- 1) Compare the same track, coming from the same master/studio. Many songs seems identical, but in real life there are complete different copies.
- 2) Forget about the age and concentrate more on volume matching. So, get a digital multimeter and fed your DAC/CD with a source playing a sinewave or a pink noise and measure the exact same output voltage (don't use headphones, they might break during this measurement).

Without perfect volume match and without comparing the same identical tracks we can't succeed in an A/B test.

 

[abdo123]

It's all about the follow:
- 1) Compare the same track, coming from the same master/studio. Many songs seems identical, but in real life there are complete different copies.
- 2) Forget about the age and concentrate more on volume matching. So, get a digital multimeter and fed your DAC/CD with a source playing a sinewave or a pink noise and measure the exact same output voltage (don't use headphones, they might break during this measurement).

Without perfect volume match and without comparing the same identical tracks we can't succeed in an A/B test.

Why can't i just enjoy the thing that is objectively better? and sounds better to my ears?

I have nothing to proof to anyone and science is clearly on the side of Tidal with its CD quality tracks. I don't care whether Tidal has 'better masters and that's why it sounds better'. the thing is it just sounds better, and there is a scientifically plausible reason to why it sounds better. there is no point in testing or debating about this.

 

[Vincent Kars]

It seems odd to me that something online/streaming would not be available to all EU.

Probably copyrights.
Years ago you couldn't even buy from Qobuz if not living in France.
The trick was to open an account and supply a valid postal address in France e.g. rue du Faubourg Saint-Honoré, nummer 55 Paris

Even today copyrights are tied to a country, not the EU as a whole.

 

[trl]

Why can't i just enjoy the thing that is objectively better? and sounds better to my ears?

I have nothing to proof to anyone and science is clearly on the side of Tidal with its CD quality tracks. I don't care whether Tidal has 'better masters and that's why it sounds better'. the thing is it just sounds better, and there is a scientifically plausible reason to why it sounds better. there is no point in testing or debating about this.

Not going to debate this here, but the scientifically reason might be in my last post from above.
Enjoy the music, no matter the source playing it!

 

[bYOndo]

No it is also available in France now but I don‘t know for the rest of Europe and Asia

it is available in Italy too. But that "under the same roof" *-note...hm... Tidal doesn't have this limitation. Anyone tried it?

edit: talking about Qobuz family plans

 

[Taddpole]

Qobuz is based in France, so it should be. It seems odd to me that something online/streaming would not be available to all EU. ...The only difference I can think of is language support, for UI.

Interesting story I read yesterday; it seems Youtube Music is planning to increase market share. Although last time I looked at the pricing, it seemed more expensive.
Inside YouTube’s plan to win the music-streaming wars.
YouTube has always been important to the music business. Now, with YouTube Music, it's trying to build a music universe Spotify and Apple can't touch.

Pity youtube music is a huge step backwards in many ways from google play music.

 

[Chromatischism]

Pity youtube music is a huge step backwards in many ways from google play music.

Typical of Google to kill superior services in favor or newer, lesser capable ones.

My combo subscription of GPM + YouTube Premium just ended because of this, so now I'm back to YouTube with ads.

I signed up for a Black Friday deal with Deezer which was founded in France at around the same time as Qobuz and seems to be really good. Glad it's available to the U.S.A..

 

[Chromatischism]

As for the EQ, Deezer has it, but it has not much use given it's fewer EQ bands and non-adjustable Q interval.

Deezer does not technically have EQ - it is just using your phone's system EQ. So it will vary by device.

 

[Blujackaal]

I'm I the only one here that trusts the MP3 codec more?, Even at 192kbps it still holds with the LAME encoder.

 

[escape2]

I'm I the only one here that trusts the MP3 codec more?

More than what?

Does any lossy streaming service still rely on MP3? I thought most of them use either Opus/Ogg or AAC.

Anyway, my 46-year-old ears can't really tell any difference between them at around 192 kbps VBR and higher.

At 128 kbps, I prefer AAC or Opus over MP3.