Gustard X16 Balanced MQA DAC Review

[Cortes]

What I mean is that volume control is better done digital (DAC) than analog with potentiometer (most integrated and a lot of pre).

I just checked your signature. Glad to see EU made stuff.

I've had two three DACs designed wherever but made in China: AMR DP-777, Wadia 121, SMSL SU-8. Two of these three; the AMR and Wadia are kaput after of a few years. Of course, clean environment and very well cared of.

I edit the post: in addition to that. Other stuff that I've had, Mastersound valve amplifier (Italy made), Leben CS300XS (Japan made) never had a single problem with much more usage.

 

[Matias]

Main issue with pots is unbalance, which is far more audible than their impact on SINAD. So between DAC alone and DAC + pot, the DAC alone wins.

As far as I know (please correct me if I am wrong), below is SINAD ranked from best to worse on system volume strategies:
1. Variable gain at the source.
2. Stepped gain + small digital attenuation at the source.
3. Maxed source + stepped attenuator on the amp.
4. Maxed source + pot on the amp. *
5. Fixed inline attenuator + small digital attenuation.
6. Full digital attenuation.

* On item 4 a workaround of channel imbalance is to use a little digital volume attenuation in order to use the most balanced range of the pot.

Based on these I built my 2 systems on items 1 and 2.

 

[abdo123]

What I mean is that volume control is better done digital (DAC) than analog with potentiometer (most integrated and a lot of pre).

So for people who are planning to use this DAC with an integrated amp, do you recommend using the volume control on the DAC and maxing the volume controls on the integrated amp?

 

[mocenigo]

As far as I know (please correct me if I am wrong), below is SINAD ranked from best to worse on system volume strategies:
1. Variable gain at the source.
2. Stepped gain + small digital attenuation at the source.
3. Maxed source + stepped attenuator on the amp.
4. Maxed source + pot on the amp. *
5. Fixed inline attenuator + small digital attenuation.
6. Full digital attenuation.

* On item 4 a workaround of channel imbalance is to use a little digital volume attenuation in order to use the most balanced range of the pot.

Based on these I built my 2 systems on items 1 and 2.

How do you implement variable gain?

 

[Matias]

How do you implement variable gain?

Mola Mola Makua uses variable gain. Or the Accuphase preamps have variable gain too.

 

[mocenigo]

Mola Mola Makua uses variable gain. Or the Accuphase preamps have variable gain too.

I thought you were DIYing your stuff, and therefore I asked how you implemented that yourself

 

[Tks]

Trying to get AKM chips is like trying to find Lysol during Covid.

Perfect timing too. I've been pestering JohnYang to make a new DACAMP (either a DX7 Pro V2, or something to wow us like a DX9 Pro). Now he'll have no choice but to use ESS chips for sure >:-D

 

[Matias]

I thought you were DIYing your stuff, and therefore I asked how you implemented that yourself

I wish! No expertise nor time and willing to learn. I researched a lot and bought it from those who know better.

 

[m8o]

just received this:
Hi friend,
X16 has no pre-amplification, and the volume is adjusted to the maximum (0dB) to pass through, that is, no attenuation.
Integrated amplifier, which has the function of pre-amplifier, try to use it as the volume control of the entire system. It is also advisable to adjust the volume of X16 in a small range (within -15dB).
Thanks

Yes. A true preamp it is not; that would imply having the ability to amplify the output of the DAC above its maximum output level by some significant number of dB.

But either a voltage (or current, but probably voltage) controlled attenuator in the analog domain, or digital resampling and attenuation in the digital domain, it does have.

The recommendation of not attenuating past -15dB implies to me that is happening in the digital domain; it also implies 32 bit not 64 bit processing; could be wrong on that. And there are some folks, like the person you originally replied to, who wish that could completely be bypassed. I dont see why, as it measures so supremely well with it in the circuit. But that's how I interpreted the statement. And I don't interpret the reply from Gustard as doing that. But, there is a bit of opacity in how it is done vs. What I know of other manufactures' products that I own who deluged more about their manner of doing it.

 

[boXem]

As far as I know (please correct me if I am wrong), below is SINAD ranked from best to worse on system volume strategies:
1. Variable gain at the source.
2. Stepped gain + small digital attenuation at the source.
3. Maxed source + stepped attenuator on the amp.
4. Maxed source + pot on the amp. *
5. Fixed inline attenuator + small digital attenuation.
6. Full digital attenuation.

* On item 4 a workaround of channel imbalance is to use a little digital volume attenuation in order to use the most balanced range of the pot.

Based on these I built my 2 systems on items 1 and 2.

Because you value SINAD as most important parameter. I value channel balance as a much more important parameter, so pot is last in my personal ranking, especially since I tend to listen at very different volumes pending the situation .

So for people who are planning to use this DAC with an integrated amp, do you recommend using the volume control on the DAC and maxing the volume controls on the integrated amp?

I recommend using what is the most comfortable for you .
@Matias is right when stating that using little digital volume attenuation in order to use the most balanced range of the pot is a good workaround.
Because I value balance more than SINAD, this is what I would do if I was in your situation, and my only music source was the DAC:
1. set integrated volume to minimum
2. set DAC volume to maximum
3. play music
4. increase integrated volume until the "too loud for my ears" mark and don't touch it anymore
5. handle volume on a daily basis with DAC
If for you SINAD is the most important, set DAC to max and handle daily volume with your integrated.

 

[Pdxwayne]

Because you value SINAD as most important parameter. I value channel balance as a much more important parameter, so pot is last in my personal ranking, especially since I tend to listen at very different volumes pending the situation .

I recommend using what is the most comfortable for you .
@Matias is right when stating that using little digital volume attenuation in order to use the most balanced range of the pot is a good workaround.
Because I value balance more than SINAD, this is what I would do if I was in your situation, and my only music source was the DAC:
1. set integrated volume to minimum
2. set DAC volume to maximum
3. play music
4. increase integrated volume until the "too loud for my ears" mark and don't touch it anymore
5. handle volume on a daily basis with DAC
If for you SINAD is the most important, set DAC to max and handle daily volume with your integrated.

Would you please explain more about the "balance" you value more than SINAD? What is the benefit of having more balance over SINAD? Thanks!

 

[abdo123]

Would you please explain more about the "balance" you value more than SINAD? What is the benefit of having more balance over SINAD? Thanks!

@boXem | audio I second this question

Thank you so much for your input.

 

[boXem]

Would you please explain more about the "balance" you value more than SINAD? What is the benefit of having more balance over SINAD? Thanks!

If you look at this curve, you can see that at -45 dB, there is about 1.5 dB difference between the 2 channels. It is not brilliant and shows what a very standard pot will achieve.

In the evening, when kids are sleeping, -45 dB is the attenuation I have on my system for music listening. 1.5 dB difference between left and right is audible. This is the balance.
In opposition, I can't hear the noise floor from my system, even if I live in an house in a very quite area. This is the noise part of the SINAD.

As a user I put first the metrics I can hear, then the ones showing that the work was properly done. So for me balance is more important than SINAD.
As a manufacturer, I put both at the same level, since I want to offer both a great user experience and a properly engineered product. But I have to admit that if a compromise has to be done between user experience and performance, the user experience will have the priority. I spend a lot of time trying to avoid such choice.

 

[renaudrenaud]

@SHENZHENAUDIO Any information about availability? I've ordered last week, do you think it will be in Europe for Xmas?

 

[ABall]

@SHENZHENAUDIO Same here? Please give us an update.

 

[dmac6419]

@SHENZHENAUDIO Same here? Please give us an update.

Apos says around dec 20th

 

[nerone]

Hi everyone, if I use Chromecast Audio connected in optical to Gustard X16 can I listen to Tidal MQA?

 

[abdo123]

Hi everyone, if I use Chromecast Audio connected in optical to Gustard X16 can I listen to Tidal MQA?

I don’t know how Chromcast works but if it doesn’t decode and encode the FLAC again then it shouldn’t be a problem.

As long as the FLAC is sent unchanged to the DAC it should work. Regardless of input.

 

[abdo123]

@amirm

Did you measure the RCA output at max volume/voltage? I’m assuming you lower the volume to achieve a consistent benchmark standard between all your reviews.

Did the SINAD suffer or improve at max volume? What would you recommend to someone who would use this DAC with the RCA outputs?

 

[ArturoKiwi]

Hello, someone has compared Gustard X16 and smsl SU-9?