Neumann KH80 DSP Monitor Measurements #3

[BYRTT]

Actually, I found it. If you cross at 150 or so, I imagine it could play pretty loudly. But it is some work to get the cross-over right, and get the phase right, from what I understand. I am go down this path myself.
View attachment 86179

You can study some modeled numbers below, Amir's Klippel analyze for KH 80 roll off 6th order Butterworth @56Hz so animation is set to toggle that slope verse a 4th order Linkwitz Riley @150Hz, a big burden is moved to the sub..

 

[daftcombo]

You mean KH120? If so, it would be good to test it.

Any news about KH120 measurements?

 

[kezman]

Today i was 7 hours in a friend's studio that has a store with audio equipment!
the studio is full with professional room acoustics and the soundcard was the Prism Sound Lyra 2…
I listened to the following speakers: Dynaudio BM5mk3, Dynaudio LYD5 & LYD7, Genelec 8030c, Neumann KH120 & KH80.
of all these the most balanced speaker for detailed precision was the kh80 but it clearly lacks low frequencies! with a sub it will become decent!
I will count them from the best to the worst:

1. Neumann KH80
2. Genelec 8030c
3. Neumann KH120
4. Dynaudio LYD7
5. Dynaudio LYD5
6. Dynaudio BM5mk3

the best in build quality is the Neumann KH120!
genelec 8030c, around twitter has a plastic material which negatively affects the sound!
neumann kh80, the downside of the speaker is that it has Composite polycarbonate cab and plug with 2 pin.
it should cost around 300 euros each, if they update it and put an aluminum cab and an 3 pins plug then it will be worth 450 each!
however, the most beautiful, deep and tight bass it had dynaudio bm5 mk3, otherwise it has too much color at several frequencies!

 

[amirm]

Any news about KH120 measurements?

I have redone the measurement system and need to create a new profile for active speakers again. Not much work but needs to be done. Will get it tested very soon now!

 

[LTig]

I have redone the measurement system and need to create a new profile for active speakers again. Not much work but needs to be done. Will get it tested very soon now!

And KH310?

 

[TimVG]

genelec 8030c, around twitter has a plastic material which negatively affects the sound!

How did you deduce this exactly?

 

[amirm]

And KH310?

Oops. Got myself confused. It is the KH 310 that I have here. Once I finish testing it, then we can request other models.

 

[kezman]

How did you deduce this exactly?

he took it off completely, and the speaker sounded like it was taking a breath as well as brighter around 10khz

and the stereo image changed, it became more central, as a final result sound a little better without this perimetrical material in my ears!

 

[YSC]

Today i was 7 hours in a friend's studio that has a store with audio equipment!
the studio is full with professional room acoustics and the soundcard was the Prism Sound Lyra 2…
I listened to the following speakers: Dynaudio BM5mk3, Dynaudio LYD5 & LYD7, Genelec 8030c, Neumann KH120 & KH80.
of all these the most balanced speaker for detailed precision was the kh80 but it clearly lacks low frequencies! with a sub it will become decent!
I will count them from the best to the worst:

1. Neumann KH80
2. Genelec 8030c
3. Neumann KH120
4. Dynaudio LYD7
5. Dynaudio LYD5
6. Dynaudio BM5mk3

the best in build quality is the Neumann KH120!
genelec 8030c, around twitter has a plastic material which negatively affects the sound!
neumann kh80, the downside of the speaker is that it has Composite polycarbonate cab and plug with 2 pin.
it should cost around 300 euros each, if they update it and put an aluminum cab and an 3 pins plug then it will be worth 450 each!
however, the most beautiful, deep and tight bass it had dynaudio bm5 mk3, otherwise it has too much color at several frequencies!

Sorry but isn’t the 8030’s tweeter is having just a surround? For properly set up locations for all these and their FR I can’t imagine how i could possibly distinguish their sound as all are so accurate to a point I don’t think human hearing can differentiate

 

[kezman]

Sorry but isn’t the 8030’s tweeter is having just a surround? For properly set up locations for all these and their FR I can’t imagine how i could possibly distinguish their sound as all are so accurate to a point I don’t think human hearing can differentiate

the differences are noticeable, if you also remove the triangle diffuse around the tweeter of dynaudios, then changes the entire speaker sound at frequencies from 4khz-15khz. companies make speakers to their own standards, does not mean that they are perfect, each ear is different.

 

[TimVG]

he took it off completely, and the speaker sounded like it was taking a breath as well as brighter around 10khz

and the stereo image changed, it became more central, as a final result sound a little better without this perimetrical material in my ears!

That's not gonna cut it here I'm afraid. ASR, while not dogmatic, is not about posting random statements and experiences without actual proof (measurements).

 

[daftcombo]

I have redone the measurement system and need to create a new profile for active speakers again. Not much work but needs to be done. Will get it tested very soon now!

Oh, great! I will wait a bit before ordering a pair of 8030C for Xmas then.

 

[YSC]

I have redone the measurement system and need to create a new profile for active speakers again. Not much work but needs to be done. Will get it tested very soon now!

So it’s a matter of just re calculate the existing data or need a complete Re measure?

 

[YSC]

he took it off completely, and the speaker sounded like it was taking a breath as well as brighter around 10khz

and the stereo image changed, it became more central, as a final result sound a little better without this perimetrical material in my ears!

That seems like you actually mod and made it worse and then said the kh80 is better! When a stock 8030 measured textbook flat here and you said you heard a difference removing that material which likely translates to messed up frequency balance and likely get overly bright highs and possibly quite some other frequencies in the upper mids. It feels better at first impressions because highs are exaggerated than before which means it’s too bright and more apparent detail pops out at short sections

 

[okok]

Oops. Got myself confused. It is the KH 310 that I have here. Once I finish testing it, then we can request other models.

kh310 will have lower distortion than 4349

 

[BYRTT]

Would not expect everyone to agree but for objective minded diy and studios having the craft and want some of the best cant see other than a good direct sound listening window pattern can be a big key to there and thanks to Amir's shared data we can see which ones perform best, in below normalized listening window comparison KH 80 looks very strong objective performer and imagine was it united within close distance say a 6-8 incher plus a 10-15 incher combo to take care of below 200-300Hz without spoiling KH 80 inherent directivity it could reach killer system performance, for users having the craft inherent tonality is no problem in they could dial in KH 80 to whatever suits directivity pattern and room best and distortion should automatic dive to minimal if KH 80 is not asked to do anything below 200-300Hz area.

In plot list they brand sorted and listed there because normalized listening window show some better qualities than most other competitors Amir had tested and as told for advanced users being obejtive minded out of box tonality can be dialed in down the road, if some will grumble why below list is not including their favourite or the most expensive one tested then its because normalized listening window pattern dont look as smooth to my eyes as the ones listed, comments brandwise is for Genelec 8030C it looks perform close to KH 80 but miss keep up the same +/- 10º verticals, most Revel's shoot for wide horizontals that then looks give a wavy telephone band but it looks M16 and M55XC looks less wavy, for KEF family LS50 was close to be there but miss a bit in pattern above +/- 10º and Q350 is listed because advanced users could block the port so that 500-2000Hz pattern noice would calm down and begin look great plus its relative low cost, JBL 305P MKII looks nice even its very low cost..

Above list of some of the most relative smooth normalized listening window patterns in relation to best tonality for highest preference rating score..

 

[LTig]

Would not expect everyone to agree but for objective minded diy and studios having the craft and want some of the best cant see other than a good direct sound listening window pattern can be a big key to there and thanks to Amir's shared data we can see which ones perform best, in below normalized listening window comparison KH 80 looks very strong objective performer and imagine was it united within close distance say a 6-8 incher plus a 10-15 incher combo to take care of below 200-300Hz without spoiling KH 80 inherent directivity it could reach killer system performance, for users having the craft inherent tonality is no problem in they could dial in KH 80 to whatever suits directivity pattern and room best and distortion should automatic dive to minimal if KH 80 is not asked to do anything below 200-300Hz area.

In plot list they brand sorted and listed there because normalized listening window show some better qualities than most other competitors Amir had tested and as told for advanced users being obejtive minded out of box tonality can be dialed in down the road, if some will grumble why below list is not including their favourite or the most expensive one tested then its because normalized listening window pattern dont look as smooth to my eyes as the ones listed, comments brandwise is for Genelec 8030C it looks perform close to KH 80 but miss keep up the same +/- 10º verticals, most Revel's shoot for wide horizontals that then looks give a wavy telephone band but it looks M16 and M55XC looks less wavy, for KEF family LS50 was close to be there but miss a bit in pattern above +/- 10º and Q350 is listed because advanced users could block the port so that 500-2000Hz pattern noice would calm down and begin look great plus its relative low cost, JBL 305P MKII looks nice even its very low cost..


View attachment 94519


Above list of some of the most relative smooth normalized listening window patterns in relation to best tonality for highest preference rating score..

View attachment 94520

Could you add the Genelec 8341?

 

[BYRTT]

Could you add the Genelec 8341?

In static list first column second row, in animation the one that score high 6,75 ..

 

[LTig]

Wow, that was fast, thanks. It's difficult to understand that the KH80 despite its traditional 2-way design has a better horizontal dispersion than the 8341a with its coax driver.

 

[BYRTT]

Wow, that was fast, thanks. It's difficult to understand that the KH80 despite its traditional 2-way design has a better horizontal dispersion than the 8341a with its coax driver.

Agree probably KH 80 looks a little acoustic wonder, maybe a combination of textbook relative steep 8th order LR crossover combined optimal baffle dimensions and waveguide, into spinorama plot think directivity index (DI) curve is most interesting study and sensitive stuff relative to ideals so have overlaid DI of 8341A to KH 80 and vice versa plus normalized the spinorama in right column to improve a bit on understanding of spinorama in relation to previous posted normalized listening window patterns.