Topping E30 DAC Review

[voodooless]

Ha, well I am not sure on the exact price.
Surely they are getting a bulk discount.
I'd estimate cheaper in cost than anything we are used to identifying as a "hifi" product.
(Between $0.05 and $0.10 per foot)
The cable that came into my house was very cheap looking, thin, cheap feeling and truly not impressive. Yet it carried all the goods flawlessly, all that data and the net was smoking fast.
Think about it. Incredible technology.
Anyway

Actually you should not compare these technologies to much. They both use light, and both send the light though a thin translucent cable. It about stops there. The stuff that comes into your house is actually glass and a much higher quality fiber compared to the plastics that are used for Toslink. Now surely some of those expensive Toslink cables might also use flas fibers, but that's mainly to try to justify the price.

Besides the materials there are many more differences in modulation and specific properties of the fiber itself, all of them were devised to increase the data capacity and range of the cable.. where you can go upto 400 Gbit/sec vs ~4.5Mbit/sec for Toslink on a single fiber.

 

[voodooless]

I for one think that many of the people selling this stuff have come to believe in it. That would make them genuine

How does being genuine make it any less deceitful, immoral and borderline criminal? How is this an excuse? By that logic let's release all murderers that had genuinely good intensions (in their mind) when they did the deed..

 

[BDWoody]

I for one think that many of the people selling this stuff have come to believe in it. That would make them genuine, though not in fact aligned with the customer's real benefit.

A Charlatan can be sincere and still be a Charlatan.

 

[imnotdrunk]

Dang I really enjoy this forum. Whenever I find discussions of cable upgrades or recommended product links to manufacturers that also sell power purifiers or whatever, I get an allergic reaction and need to destroy all browser tabs.

Why do people use a power bank with the E30? Isn't it a bit impractical to have to recharge, and to have one more battery to replace after some while? I had an issue with not enough power for DAC mode through one of my USB chargers, but another one works similarly to a power bank I tried.

 

[Sukie]

I have been defending this from the beginning, but some people here made fun of saying that your ear is deceiving you, There is a situation that is completely audible and I clearly feel the difference, whether you call it Psychoacoustics or something else, if I feel the difference in the sound I hear and this is what I like. There is a difference to me and the values on paper mean nothing to me

When you experience anything, including music, the final point of the chain is the brain. The brain interprets that which the body receives from elsewhere. Let's take audio as an example.

When the brain receives the information, it is doing lots of things at the same time, some of which can affect the audio experience, i.e. what we hear. If you're feeling happy, music might sound different from if you're feeling sad. If you're in a dark room, music might sound different from if you're in a light room. If you've got an attractive looking audio rig, music might sound different from if you have a cheap looking rig. This is a REAL phenomena. There is no deception involved at all. It is your experience and no one can take that away. The interesting question is "why". If there is no measurable difference, why is there an experiential difference? Here comes the science-y bit.

First of all we need to rule in or out the possibility that "measurements don't tell the whole story", hence the need for double-blind testing. This removes all other stimulations that the brain might be experiencing. Thus far no double blind testing has shown clear differences between equally measuring DACs, cables that aren't badly designed or broken, and also, as in the case of your original question, different power supplies.

So then why do you hear differences? If these differences can't be backed up by measurements and can't be backed up by double blind testing, are they just in your head? Well yes, they are, but so what? We don't need to challenge that. What we are challenging is any attempt to make an objective statement out of your subjective experience.

I must say though that I find your approach to defending your position rather rude and aggressive. You do yourself no favours with your choice of language. It also appears that you have not taken the time to appreciate where members here might be coming from, despite having been a member for almost a year.

Also, I wonder why you have become so disparaging of measurements when you rather discourtesy requested that @amirm review (and therefore measure) the HiFiBerry DAC 2 HAT?

Will Amirm review this card? Waiting Impatiently

 

[Hydra]

When you experience anything, including music, the final point of the chain is the brain. The brain interprets that which the body receives from elsewhere. Let's take audio as an example.

When the brain receives the information, it is doing lots of things at the same time, some of which can affect the audio experience, i.e. what we hear. If you're feeling happy, music might sound different from if you're feeling sad. If you're in a dark room, music might sound different from if you're in a light room. If you've got an attractive looking audio rig, music might sound different from if you have a cheap looking rig. This is a REAL phenomena. There is no deception involved at all. It is your experience and no one can take that away. The interesting question is "why". If there is no measurable difference, why is there an experiential difference? Here comes the science-y bit.

First of all we need to rule in or out the possibility that "measurements don't tell the whole story", hence the need for double-blind testing. This removes all other stimulations that the brain might be experiencing. Thus far no double blind testing has shown clear differences between equally measuring DACs, cables that aren't badly designed or broken, and also, as in the case of your original question, different power supplies.

So then why do you hear differences? If these differences can't be backed up by measurements and can't be backed up by double blind testing, are they just in your head? Well yes, they are, but so what? We don't need to challenge that. What we are challenging is any attempt to make an objective statement out of your subjective experience.

I must say though that I find your approach to defending your position rather rude and aggressive. You do yourself no favours with your choice of language. It also appears that you have not taken the time to appreciate where members here might be coming from, despite having been a member for almost a year.

Also, I wonder why you have become so disparaging of measurements when you rather discourtesy requested that @amirm review (and therefore measure) the HiFiBerry DAC 2 HAT?

The question I asked if I bought ipurifer I was wondering if it would make a change in my system and I asked if anyone who uses it to write their comments, I did not ask if this is reflected in the measurements by pscycoacoustics (or whatever you call it). The difference I felt comfortably was the question of whether it would have an effect on the IFI purifier, but all the members here started responding as if they were mocking.

Okay measurements can show on paper how good the that Dac is, but if the sound we hear in the real world is bad, it will not mean anything to the user no matter how good on paper, when I plug the Ifi ipower into my system, the moment I feel the existing improvement in the sound, I decided not to power it with another standard power adapter or directly from USB

These types of products from other members here do not make any contribution, if you say that they are merely cheating and products that are put on the market to get your money, we cannot agree there. You have to respect everyone's opinion.

I will say in the last sentence, please do not quote any more to what I wrote.

Already some sane members sent me a private message to inform me about whether the IFI Ipurifier product could be useful, which is the core of the question I asked.

 

[voodooless]

These types of products from other members here do not make any contribution, if you say that they are merely cheating and products that are put on the market to get your money, we cannot agree there. You have to respect everyone's opinion.

Opinions you can have, and you are free to divulge them. As am I. And I also don't need your permission to spew them. We are of course all free to agree or disagree.

The whole point of the iPurifier controverse is the fact that the components inside of the thing cannot in any way, shape or form contribute to the claimed benefits. And don't get me wrong here, the device might actually technically do what it claims, namely lower HF noise and reclock the USB data. But that does still not mean that it can impact sound quality.

I will say in the last sentence, please do not quote any more to what I wrote.

Sorry, I quote whatever I want..

 

[wasnotwasnotwas]

Hello Guys, I bought IFI power SMPS for Topping E30, my aim is to increase the sound quality, connect to raspberry pi from Usb and use moodeaudio as a network audio streamer, do you think I should add IFI i Purifier 3 next to these two. ?

So you want to add a $100 ifi device onto another $100 ifi device to plug in a $120 DAC (and $50 Pi?) that has been measured as having incredibly low noise with a standard 5v USB connection?

You can talk all you want about perceived benefits, decrying measurements not being the full picture etc etc but the only thing I will guarantee is that you have spent around 150% more on your set up than is necessary . Good luck

 

[Hydra]

Opinions you can have, and you are free to divulge them. As am I. And I also don't need your permission to spew them. We are of course all free to agree or disagree.

The whole point of the iPurifier controverse is the fact that the components inside of the thing cannot in any way, shape or form contribute to the claimed benefits. And don't get me wrong here, the device might actually technically do what it claims, namely lower HF noise and reclock the USB data. But that does still not mean that it can impact sound quality.



Sorry, I quote whatever I want..

It may not affect the sound quality for you, it affects me a lot, and I think don't comment any further since you can't hear that difference with your deaf ears. Don't give me your advice, I think you do not understand these issues at all and you still stubbornly try to get me to accept the data on paper, I don't care, if you keep quoting, I will continue to quote and we will bring the subject to undesirable place because of your stubbornness.

 

[Lero]

It may not affect the sound quality for you, it affects me a lot, and I think don't comment any further since you can't hear that difference with your deaf ears. Don't give me your advice, I think you do not understand these issues at all and you still stubbornly try to get me to accept the data on paper, I don't care, if you keep quoting, I will continue to quote and we will bring the subject to undesirable place because of your stubbornness.

Audiophilia is like religion, you chose to trade the truth to achieve happiness.

 

[Hydra]

So you want to add a $100 ifi device onto another $100 ifi device to plug in a $120 DAC (and $50 Pi?) that has been measured as having incredibly low noise with a standard 5v USB connection?

You can talk all you want about perceived benefits, decrying measurements not being the full picture etc etc but the only thing I will guarantee is that you have spent around 150% more on your set up than is necessary . Good luck

Maybe those little differences make me happy? Because I think audible differences, not small differences?

 

[wasnotwasnotwas]

Maybe those little differences make me happy? Because I think audible differences, not small differences?

Ever wondered why the first ifi device (the SMPS one) hadn't fully satisfied you?

 

[Lero]

Maybe those little differences make me happy? Because I think audible differences, not small differences?

What you think you can hear become "hearable" if you are convinced of that, your mind does all the job...measure it and it will not be subjective !

 

[Deleted member 18309]

I appreciate everyone is sharing opinions but we've gone far off topic. And it's slightly annoying to receive notifications just to watch this back and forth bickering play out. It's clear Hydra doesn't wish to be engaged and is not willing to discuss rationally, so can we please stop engaging them?

 

[Sukie]

The question I asked if I bought ipurifer I was wondering if it would make a change in my system and I asked if anyone who uses it to write their comments, I did not ask if this is reflected in the measurements by pscycoacoustics (or whatever you call it).

You can't ask a question and then complain when you get an answer. The answer that most people on here give ("no") can be explained by measurements, that's why people answered in the way that they did.

If it makes a difference for you, why do you need external verification from others? Did you seriously think that, on ASR, you were going to get a lot of positive responses to your question?

Agree with @jharismaiden's post that came in as I'm typing and, with others, I did suggest that you take this to another thread. Please let the E30 thread return to E30 matters.

 

[BDWoody]

I can hear the difference very comfortably but if you can't hear with your s.hitty ears, it's okay to claim it's psychoacoustics, I suggest you go to the doctor and get the dirt out of your ear, maybe you can hear a little difference after that, but be sure I can hear the difference very well

I think you need a little time out from this thread.
7 day reply ban.
Please don't take this fight to other threads.

Everyone else... As you were.

 

[voodooless]

Anyway, back on topic then...

I remember this was mentioned by someone else but I couldn't find it again. I have my piCorePlayer set to turn off the USB port connected to the E30 when the piCorePlayer is off. This allows the E30 to enter standby mode. This works perfectly but when the piCorePlayer is turned on again and the E30 comes out of standby the display shows 45.15 DSD for a few seconds before changing to 44.1 PCM. When it changes to 44.1 PCM there is a fairly loud pop from my speakers. Surely this could be fixed with a firmware update.

I'm not sure why it shows DSD first, but changes in sample rate and specially changes from PCM/DSD do come with a slight pop sound. As far as known it is not something that can be fixed with firmware.

You're not the only one with the 45.15 DSD issue though: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...pping-e30-dac-review.12119/reply&quote=449116, also https://forum.headphones.com/t/topping-e30-dac-issues-with-raspberry-pi-4/8990 and https://community.roonlabs.com/t/topping-e30-dac-startup-sync-issue/126471. And there is also a reference to 1024*44100 here: https://www.xcore.com/viewtopic.php?t=3523&start=10 (though otherwise rather offtopic). This might actually be a firmware issue that Topping could have a look into

 

[LordPotato]

 

[raif71]

I feel for you Hydra as I too sometimes give subjective opinions and never provide any substantial evidence except I like what I heard . I too have been mocked by some over here but fret not, words cannot hurt us (agree to disagree lol). However, I too rely on the reviews here to guide me on what gears to buy especially the cheap but have decent to more than decent measurements. Guys, sometimes your rolleyes hurt us but perhaps we brought it upon ourselves so to me all is good. Actually I do have fun poking subjective comments and see some of you coming out of the woodwork to straighten things out. Hilarious I say

 

[BDWoody]

I feel for you Hydra as I too sometimes give subjective opinions and never provide any substantial evidence except I like what I heard . I too have been mocked by some over here but fret not, words cannot hurt us (agree to disagree lol). However, I too rely on the reviews here to guide me on what gears to buy especially the cheap but have decent to more than decent measurements. Guys, sometimes your rolleyes hurt us but perhaps we brought it upon ourselves so to me all is good. Actually I do have fun poking subjective comments and see some of you coming out of the woodwork to straighten things out. Hilarious I say

You also approach it with a rare humor, combined with a fundamental respect too often missing.