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What speaker/ monitor gave you the most "I never heard that before" moments?

dwkdnvr

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For me, I still go back to the Spica TC-50 giving me my first "holy crap!!" high-end experience with holographic imaging. at the time it was just mind-blowing

After that, it was probably having Yorkville U15 pa cabinets (they're a Danley-licensed Unity design) as home speakers in a fairly small room which resulted in staggering dynamic range. I'll definitely never have another system that can play as loudly and cleanly as that one.
 

anmpr1

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For me, I still go back to the Spica TC-50.
Spica was an odd thing. Sort of a flash in the pan. Every review I read was positive. They were not expensive. They looked a bit strange (angled like they were), however the form factor was smallish, and not imposing in a domestic setting. But for some reason the company couldn't make a go of it.
 

BenB

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It may be helpful to identify how audio content can get hidden by your playback system. I think there are 5 major ways this happens:

1) Limited frequency extension: the content was too low or too high for your system to reproduce it.
2) Dips in the frequency response of your system: The content occurred at frequencies that are diminished in your playback system, causing them to be masked by other simultaneous content.
3) Peaks in the frequency response of your system: The missed content was masked by other simultaneous content that was exaggerated by your system.
4) Distortion: The content was missed because it was masked by distortion products created by your system.
5) Reflections / Reverberation: The content was masked by reflections of prior content that arrived simultaneously.

This may not be an exhaustive list, but if it's close, then it becomes clear that a good pair of headphones with smooth and extended frequency response and low distortion is hard to beat as far as hearing everything in the mix. However, that's not the most enjoyable way to experience music for many people (myself included: I'd much rather listen to my speakers than my studio quality headphones). The next best system for hearing everything would be a loudspeaker system with smooth, extended frequency response, low distortion, and high directivity (to limit reflections). In my experience, such a system isn't engaging, and is perceived as inauthentic. In the real world, sonic experiences aren't limited to a small fraction of space with a 53% span. Even if all the sound sources are within that span, we inevitably hear reflections from outside that span, which gives us a sense of the space we are in. For the most enjoyable experience, sidewall reflections that are substantially wider than 53%, and are delayed in time are helpful. In contrast, I don't think that floor and ceiling reflections add anything meaningful, besides possibly reinforcing low frequencies more than high frequencies and thus tilting the power spectrum. For me, the best combination of engagement, clarity, and perceived authenticity comes from my own DIY multi-way line array speakers (paired with multiple subwoofers). I have the extension, the smooth frequency response, the freedom from distortion even at high playback levels, and the reduction of reflections from the floor, ceiling, and front-wall (due to on-wall placement).
I've hosted numerous listening sessions with other enthusiasts, and I often get comments that I must not appreciate any other speakers. I don't really see myself as an audio snob. I appreciate the improvement a budget speaker system provides over the speakers in a TV or a soundbar. My threshold for "good" is not super high. I think the Sony SS-CS5s sound good. I recently spent some time listening to a prior DIY design of mine that was more conventional (MTM with 6.5" woofers and 1" tweeter in a ported tower). They are great speakers (and won me a prize at a DIY speaker competition.. placing 2nd in the open category). But I wouldn't listen to them for hours on end like I do with my line arrays. They probably have 97% of the performance that the arrays have, but that last 3 percent makes the difference between something that's a great speaker, and something that's more of an acoustic recreation device (or acoustic simulator).
I remember when I first heard my speakers properly positioned. I was struck with the thought that if these sounded so amazing, and they were designed and built by a novice (who works in an industry that's only somewhat related), then there must be speakers out there that capture all the excitement of a live performance. A knowledgeable fellow gave me a subtle warning that I was in for disappointment in the high end speaker industry. I tried every room at the next Capital Audio Fest. I failed to find audio Nirvana. In fact, I failed to find anything better than what I made at home. I've been to a few more shows and auditioned some high end systems... I still haven't heard a match for what I made at home.

IMG_8075_Crop.png
 
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dfuller

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Barefoot MM27s. Listening to tracks I knew really well through them was sort of a revelation for the amount of stuff I heard. Almost like wearing headphones.
 

Senior NEET Engineer

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Haven't experienced this other than when I upgraded from LSR305. The noise floor was so loud that it hid detail.
 

HedgeHog

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Way back in 1991, my brother had a set of Sequerra Met 7/8/10/whatever combo. Like a stack of 4 separate modules and powered by some Sonic Frontier tube amp. It was the most 3D sounding and smooth setup I've ever heard. I've not heard something that gave me that first impression since. They look like a HeathKit project but it sure left a big impression on me.
sequerra_met_7__met8_speaker__1601649114_ca6ad84d_progressive.jpg
 

Vintage57

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The 1st were AR LST2’s. Which I still have but were retired 40 years ago. I couldn’t afford the larger LST’s at the time.

The current are the best to date. Neumann KH420.
 
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Duke

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For me it was the SoundLab Millenium 1. I bought the first pair from the factory when there was no dealer anywhere near me, without ever having heard any SoundLab speakers.

I had read about the design and analyzed what it would do to the best of my ability at the time, which was 1999: Faceted-curved panel radiating over a 90 degree arc forward and backwards. I did the math to investigate whether the angle between the facets combined with the width of the facets would cause a "picket fence" effect at high frequencies (no). I estimated that the radiation pattern would be exceptionally uniform up and down the spectrum, as it transitioned from 90 degrees front-and-back across most of the spectrum to a dipole figure-8 at the bottom end of the spectrum. The company made no mention of the reverberant field in their literature, but I figured it would have the same spectral balance as the direct sound, modified by the room's acoustics, which seems to be the case.

I won't bore you guys with descriptions of hearing textures and inner detail and individual voices that I had never heard before on familiar music, but it was almost like my old music collection was new again.

I tried to talk several of my local hifi dealers into carrying SoundLab but they were uninterested. So on a whim I did something really strange: I asked SoundLab if I could become a dealer for them. I had no idea if home showrooms were even a thing at the time. SoundLab said yes... and even said that with my enthusiasm for the product, I just might become their biggest dealer. So I changed careers and became a high-end audio dealer, and subsequently became a manufacturer. [Darth Vader voice] And now my journey to the Dark Side is.... com-pleet. [/voice]

So my warning to anyone who buys a pair of speakers which let you hear things you've never heard before: Watch out. You're playing with fire. It's a slippery slope. And those sweet new speakers just might become your gateway drug. You may have to choose between joining a twelve-step program and becoming a dealer. Anyway it took a few years, but I did become SoundLab's biggest-selling dealer ever, at least for a while.
 
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phoenixdogfan

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Way back in 1991, my brother had a set of Sequerra Met 7/8/10/whatever combo. Like a stack of 4 separate modules and powered by some Sonic Frontier tube amp. It was the most 3D sounding and smooth setup I've ever heard. I've not heard something that gave me that first impression since. They look like a HeathKit project but it sure left a big impression on me.
sequerra_met_7__met8_speaker__1601649114_ca6ad84d_progressive.jpg
Did have that ribbon tweeter, and you could start by buying the minimonitor and then adding the sub and the ribbon tweeter. Peter Akzel raved about the transformative effect of that tweeter as an add on for any system. Don't know what the box of ten drivers on top is. Must be a later addition to add more midrange volume.
 

anmpr1

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It may be helpful to identify how audio content can get hidden by your playback system...
Is any decent loudspeaker so bad that any of your speculations about 'hidden' content is actually the case? Has anyone really heard something with a new speaker that they couldn't hear with their previous one? I mean, short of a three inch transistor radio driver?

When people say that a new loudspeaker lets them hear things they haven't heard before, I think they just haven't listened very well hitherto. What they are hearing could certainly sound 'different'. But the idea that any decent loudspeaker is 'hiding' an instrument on the mix is risible.
 

andreasmaaan

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For me it was the SoundLab Millenium 1. I bought the first pair from the factory when there was no dealer anywhere near me, without ever having heard any SoundLab speakers.

I had read about the design and analyzed what it would do to the best of my ability at the time, which was 1999: Faceted-curved panel radiating over a 90 degree arc forward and backwards. I did the math to investigate whether the angle between the facets combined with the width of the facets would cause a "picket fence" effect at high frequencies (no). I estimated that the radiation pattern would be exceptionally uniform up and down the spectrum, as it transitioned from 90 degrees front-and-back across most of the spectrum to a dipole figure-8 at the bottom end of the spectrum. The company made no mention of the reverberant field in their literature, but I figured it would have the same spectral balance as the direct sound, modified by the room's acoustics, which seems to be the case.

I won't bore you guys with descriptions of hearing textures and inner detail and individual voices that I had never heard before on familiar music, but it was almost like my old music collection was new again.

I tried to talk several of my local hifi dealers into carrying SoundLab but they were uninterested. So on a whim I did something really strange: I asked SoundLab if I could become a dealer for them. I had no idea if home showrooms were even a thing at the time. SoundLab said yes... and even said that with my enthusiasm for the product, I just might become their biggest dealer. So I changed careers and became a high-end audio dealer, and subsequently became a manufacturer. [Darth Vader voice] And now my journey to the Dark Side is.... com-pleet. [/voice]

So my warning to anyone who buys a pair of speakers which let you hear things you've never heard before: Watch out. You're playing with fire. It's a slippery slope. And those sweet new speakers just might become your gateway drug. You may have to choose between joining a twelve-step program and becoming a dealer. Anyway it took a few years, but I did become SoundLab's biggest-selling dealer ever, at least for a while.

@Duke you don’t happen to have or know of any measurements of these or other Millennium speakers do you? :)
 
OP
Pearljam5000

Pearljam5000

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Is any decent loudspeaker so bad that any of your speculations about 'hidden' content is actually the case? Has anyone really heard something with a new speaker that they couldn't hear with their previous one? I mean, short of a three inch transistor radio driver?

When people say that a new loudspeaker lets them hear things they haven't heard before, I think they just haven't listened very well hitherto. What they are hearing could certainly sound 'different'. But the idea that any decent loudspeaker is 'hiding' an instrument on the mix is risible.
Even in this video a very experienced guy who tried a lot of high end gear said he heard new things in a track he knows very well when played on the D&D 8C, so it's completely possible.
Happened to me too on Genelecs and Sennheiser HD800
 

Sprint

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Here is mine in the order:

1. Kii 3 => Heard at Hifi Munich
2. Genelec 8351A (IMO, the mids were better than Kii with so much details coming out in not so well treated room). => at a dealer and Hifi Munich
3. ADAM S3V and S5V => at Hifi Munich
4. Canton 9K with Yamaha Integrated amp AS 3100 => at a dealer
5. Neumann KH 310 (great details after 8351A). => at a dealer
6. Gradient 1.4 => at Hifi Munich
7. Cabasse Baltic => at Hifi Munich
8. Bohne Audio Classic Serie 12 => at Hifi Munich
9. Genuin Audio AVA => at Hifi Munich
10. KS Digital C8 and C5 => at dealer and at my home for testing


I have heard so many high ends as well like Amphion, B&W, Focal, ELAC, Martin Logan ESL. B&W CM10 S2 caught my attention but was fatiguing after 10 minutes.

At the end decides for 8340 for movie surround set up. May have a separate set up with 8351 for music.
 
OP
Pearljam5000

Pearljam5000

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Here is mine in the order:

1. Kii 3 => Heard at Hifi Munich
2. Genelec 8351A (IMO, the mids were better than Kii with so much details coming out in not so well treated room). => at a dealer and Hifi Munich
3. ADAM S3V and S5V => at Hifi Munich
4. Canton 9K with Yamaha Integrated amp AS 3100 => at a dealer
5. Neumann KH 310 (great details after 8351A). => at a dealer
6. Gradient 1.4 => at Hifi Munich
7. Cabasse Baltic => at Hifi Munich
8. Bohne Audio Classic Serie 12 => at Hifi Munich
9. Genuin Audio AVA => at Hifi Munich
10. KS Digital C8 and C5 => at dealer and at my home for testing


I have heard so many high ends as well like Amphion, B&W, Focal, ELAC, Martin Logan ESL. B&W CM10 S2 caught my attention but was fatiguing after 10 minutes.

At the end decides for 8340 for movie surround set up. May have a separate set up with 8351 for music.
The new 8351B is a big improvement over the A version with a new mid driver , so should be even better now.
 

BenB

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Is any decent loudspeaker so bad that any of your speculations about 'hidden' content is actually the case? Has anyone really heard something with a new speaker that they couldn't hear with their previous one? I mean, short of a three inch transistor radio driver?

When people say that a new loudspeaker lets them hear things they haven't heard before, I think they just haven't listened very well hitherto. What they are hearing could certainly sound 'different'. But the idea that any decent loudspeaker is 'hiding' an instrument on the mix is risible.

The short answer is "Yes" some speakers are more revealing of the content played on them than other speakers; even other speakers that are considered good.

For example, I hosted a listening session with an audio enthusiast (and amateur musician). His home speakers consisted of a well respected kit with a Raal tweeter. He played his own music for the demo. In one of the tracks, he noticed a mistake that one of the musicians made on the recording that he had never heard before. If I recall correctly, it was a guitarist who came in late on a particular note. Additionally, as an amateur drummer, he noted that he had never heard a pair of speakers capture drums so authentically before. Apparently he was listening for the subtle sounds of how the sticks strike and slide on the heads of the drum. He was able to discern what techniques the drummers were using.
 

TomJ

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The B&W Nautilus 805 I bought new 20 yrs ago and still use today. Here's the FR in my living room with Dirac v3. The LF dip is a ceiling beam reflection and the HF roll-off is from the apodizing filter on my DAC (no pre-ringing).

FR SPL with DRC.png
 
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andreasmaaan

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The thing is, more detail is not always a good thing. You can add "detail" to any system with EQ. All you need to do is boost the presence region (c. 2kHz-5kHz).

More detail can also be revealed by increasing the ratio of direct-to-reflected energy, e.g. by increasing the amount of absorption in the listening room, or using more directional speakers. One reason the Kii 3 and D&D 8C speakers tends to sound more detailed in the lower midrange is that they are more directional in this range than most speakers, so the ratio of direct-to-reflected energy tends to be higher.

For maximum detail, listen to highly directional speakers in an acoustically dead room with an upper-midrange/lower-treble boost (Yamaha NS-10 in a highly damped control room gives something of this kind of effect). This will sound awful, but you'll hear maximum detail vs any sane/desirable speaker/room setup.
 
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