Budget DAC Review: Schiit Modi 2 ($99)

[watchnerd]

I find it quite ironic that my request for one or more pointers to DACs that are not as "junk" as the Modi is answered by the very definition of unreliable, mass-produced products:

https://www.amazon.com/Behringer-UM...r&reviewerType=all_reviews#reviews-filter-bar
https://www.amazon.com/Behringer-UM...e=all_reviews&pageNumber=1#reviews-filter-bar

And before someone tries to accuse me of being selective or anecdotal: This thread's verdict of the Modi 2 is based on a single (1) Modi 2 tested in a single (1) configuration. I'd say the vast amount of anecdotal evidence on the Behringer's unreliability at Amazon easily beats the single body of evidence against the Modi's performance.

So one is unreliably built but measures well, and the other measures terribly but might be built better?

Seems like crap either way.

 

[oni]

@watchnerd so which DAC would you recommend at this price point that is not as "junk" as the Modi 2 (as someone put it) and does not suffer from USB voltage noise bleeding into the audio path?

 

[watchnerd]

@watchnerd so which DAC would you recommend at this price point that is not as "junk" as the Modi 2 (as someone put it) and does not suffer from USB voltage noise bleeding into the audio path?

At that price point? The free one already built into your phone / computer.

I don't think standalone DACs are consistently worth investing in until you hit about the $200-300 mark when the budget for better power supplies and analog sections is there.

 

[oni]

That's a very broad statement. As it happens, I have a MBP 15" (2016 model) here, which I guess would qualify as a "computer" that you pointed to. I also have a Fiio E10K here, and a Modi 2 Uber. Without doing any measurements, the sound that the free DAC in the MBP produces is vastly inferior to both the Modi and the Fiio. So I guess both modest investments, the Modi and the Fiio, improved over the free one that I already had.

Also, I happen to be not deaf. I do not hear any distortion on either model because the MBP happens to have proper voltage regulation on the USB ports, unlike the computer that was used for testing the Modi 2 here. And yet, the Fiio's and Schiit's DACs output sound very different. I do not know which reproduction is closer to the source material, and I was looking for clarification in this forum. So far, I'm puzzled by the lack of scientific rigor here, to put it mildly.

 

[watchnerd]

That's a very broad statement. As it happens, I have a MBP 15" (2016 model) here, which I guess would qualify as a "computer" that you pointed to. I also have a Fiio E10K here, and a Modi 2 Uber. Without doing any measurements, the sound that the free DAC in the MBP produces is vastly inferior to both the Modi and the Fiio. So I guess both modest investments, the Modi and the Fiio, improved over the free one that I already had.

Also, I happen to be not deaf. I do not hear any distortion on either model because the MBP happens to have proper voltage regulation on the USB ports, unlike the computer that was used for testing the Modi 2 here. And yet, the Fiio's and Schiit's DACs output sound very different. I do not know which reproduction is closer to the source material, and I was looking for clarification in this forum. So far, I'm puzzled by the lack of scientific rigor here, to put it mildly.

You're conflating the amp with the DAC.

You're not hearing the DAC directly.

This is one problem, amongst many, with listening tests.

PS, was the listening test double-blind with level matching? Your anecdote isn't really evidence.

Portable devices typically have lower wattage output than dedicated amps. Of course, this problem can also be solved with higher sensitivity cans...

 

[watchnerd]

So far, I'm puzzled by the lack of scientific rigor here, to put it mildly.

The measurement graphs posted don't meet your standards in what way?

 

[oni]

You're conflating the amp with the DAC.

Same as you did when I asked for a DAC and you pointed to the iPhone 6's integrated DAC/headphone amp. Unless you meant to imply that someone would attach a headphone amp to the iPhone DAC's "line-out" (scare quotes because it doesn't really output reference levels), which would counter your whole argument that a free solution would suffice.

PS, was the listening test double-blind with level matching? Your anecdote isn't really evidence.

Are you seriously trying to call for empiric evidence at the same time you claim that "The free [DAC] already built into your phone / computer" would be superior to a Modi 2? Posting a single graph of a single, legacy phone is not evidence, either.

 

[bennetng]

I find it quite ironic that my request for one or more pointers to DACs that are not as "junk" as the Modi is answered by the very definition of unreliable, mass-produced products:

https://www.amazon.com/Behringer-UM...r&reviewerType=all_reviews#reviews-filter-bar
https://www.amazon.com/Behringer-UM...e=all_reviews&pageNumber=1#reviews-filter-bar

And before someone tries to accuse me of being selective or anecdotal: This thread's verdict of the Modi 2 is based on a single (1) Modi 2 tested in a single (1) configuration. I'd say the vast amount of anecdotal evidence on the Behringer's unreliability at Amazon easily beats the single body of evidence against the Modi's performance.

Looks like what the customers generally dislike about the UMC204HD are bad compatibility and performance with DAWs and low output level (+3dBu).

http://archimago.blogspot.hk/2017/05/measurements-smsl-idea-usb-dac.html

This one is louder: 2Vrms (~+8.24dBu). Archimago measured it with several devices and the measured results are quite consistent. However you should look into the comment section as well. I don't own the product so I can't provide further details. Good luck.

 

[oni]

The measurement graphs posted don't meet your standards in what way?

Which revision of the Modi 2 was tested? (Usually there's a sticker on the back indicating the revision.) Schiit's products sometimes go through 15 or more revisions. If anything, the latest version available at the time the test was conducted should be tested.
In case of feeding the DAC through USB, what are the exact specifications of the USB host? USB chipset? USB driver? Which OS? Which firmware? Which UEFI/BIOS version? Any other draw on the same hub? If yes, which peripherals were attached apart from the DAC? Any real-world or synthetic load on the USB host during testing?

Just writing "I had the Modi connected to a computer, and measured distortion" is hardly a rigorous approach. (And before someone accuse me of beating strawmen: I didn't put the "Science" in "Audio Science Review".)

 

[watchnerd]

Same as you did when I asked for a DAC and you pointed to the iPhone 6's integrated DAC/headphone amp. Unless you meant to imply that someone would attach a headphone amp to the iPhone DAC's "line-out" (scare quotes because it doesn't really output reference levels), which would counter your whole argument that a free solution would suffice.

That's exactly my point -- the free DAC should suffice. I didn't say it was pointless to spend money. If you need more power, pair it with an amp that drives your phones better. Or get different phones that work within the power output of your phone / computer.

Are you seriously trying to call for empiric evidence at the same time you claim that "The free [DAC] already built into your phone / computer" would be superior to a Modi 2? Posting a single graph of a single, legacy phone is not evidence, either.

How is that graph not evidence of the good jitter performance of the iPhone 6?

 

[watchnerd]

Which revision of the Modi 2 was tested? (Usually there's a sticker on the back indicating the revision.) Schiit's products sometimes go through 15 or more revisions. If anything, the latest version available at the time the test was conducted should be tested.
In case of feeding the DAC through USB, what are the exact specifications of the USB host? USB chipset? USB driver? Which OS? Which firmware? Which UEFI/BIOS version? Any other draw on the same hub? If yes, which peripherals were attached apart from the DAC? Any real-world or synthetic load on the USB host during testing?

You can ask @amirm, who conducted the tests, all these questions.

 

[watchnerd]

Are you seriously trying to call for empiric evidence at the same time you claim that "The free [DAC] already built into your phone / computer" would be superior to a Modi 2? Posting a single graph of a single, legacy phone is not evidence, either.

Also, I never said it was superior to Modi 2. It was evidence that the jitter of the iPhone 6 is "not junk".

 

[oni]

How is that graph not evidence of the good jitter performance of the iPhone 6?

Can you point me to a single person on this planet who's using an iPhone 6 as a DAC? Or a single person who's on the quest to buy a DAC, and all they'd ask is, "What's its jitter"? And not, you know, things like, how realiable is it? Can it drive my headphones? What's it sound like?

"Hey, so in November 2017 I found this forum, and these guys were criticizing the Modi 2. So when I asked for a better DAC, only two came up. One guy suggested a Behringer, which had hundreds of 1-/2-star reviews on Amazon because the unit would fail after days or weeks. Then another guy suggested to use an iPhone 6 as a DAC because its jitter performance measured well."

Very bizarre, to be honest.

Anyway, I'm now concluding that there isn't much to be learned here. I'm going to unwatch this thread, have fun.

 

[watchnerd]

Can you point me to a single person on this planet who's using an iPhone 6 as a DAC?

Sure -- me -- when I'm at the gym, in the car, in an airport, or otherwise mobile.

At home I have a Roon server running on a Mac mini connected to a NAS, which then streams to a Devialet 400 with its own built-in DAC / ADC.

 

[Eric Auer]

I had no idea that people from Schiit were watching this forum.

Eric

 

[Thomas savage]

I had no idea that people from Schiit were watching this forum.

Eric

 

[amirm]

Which revision of the Modi 2 was tested? (Usually there's a sticker on the back indicating the revision.) Schiit's products sometimes go through 15 or more revisions. If anything, the latest version available at the time the test was conducted should be tested.

If they have 15 revisions without telling the customers when they sell them, heaven help their customers!

Here is when I bought mine and actual transaction on Amazon:

On the back it says SCH-08-2. I googled for that and the manual for the unit popped up:

Random number F03??? Instead of being cute with us, they should indicate the revision number on the back of the unit.

I took mine apart and it says "v2.10" on the PCB.

There is a date code of 10/16 which I assume means October 2016. So I bought a unit in March of this year and got production revision dating back 6 months. They better not have changed anything during that time and ship me old stuck.

So what does this say to you? Bad revision? What revision is good?

 

[amirm]

I find it quite ironic that my request for one or more pointers to DACs that are not as "junk" as the Modi is answered by the very definition of unreliable, mass-produced products:

The Topping D30 remains my current favorite. It is exactly the same price as Schiit Modi 2 yet it has far better performance, more formats it supports, and has more connectivity. There simply is no reason to by the Schiit Modi 2 in my view.

 

[Thomas savage]

If they have 15 revisions without telling the customers when they sell them, heaven help their customers!

Here is when I bought mine and actual transaction on Amazon:

View attachment 9585

On the back it says SCH-08-2. I googled for that and the manual for the unit popped up:

View attachment 9586


Random number F03??? Instead of being cute with us, they should indicate the revision number on the back of the unit.

I took mine apart and it says "v2.10" on the PCB.

There is a date code of 10/16 which I assume means October 2016. So I bought a unit in March of this year and got production revision dating back 6 months. They better not have changed anything during that time and ship me old stuck.

So what does this say to you? Bad revision? What revision is good?

 

[amirm]

This thread's verdict of the Modi 2 is based on a single (1) Modi 2 tested in a single (1) configuration. I'd say the vast amount of anecdotal evidence on the Behringer's unreliability at Amazon easily beats the single body of evidence against the Modi's performance.

For reliability you need many samples. For measurements, you don't unless the manufacturer tells us that every unit differs from another and it is the luck of the draw what we get. Is that the case with Schiit?

BTW, as you know, I have shared my personal report of horrible way they assembled an RCA cable my son had bought from them that failed in a day or two from poor soldering and lack of strain relief.

To answer your question earlier on revisions, I opened the unit and same horrible hand soldering is going on in my Schiit Modi 2. I will report on that later but if I were you, I would not at all assume that Schiit is a reliable brand given the examples I have seen personally.