• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Elections and voting (in general) ...

Status
Not open for further replies.

L5730

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Oct 6, 2018
Messages
669
Likes
436
Location
East of England
Watching the newcasters paint a picture of fiasco over the US elections, I started thinking about something I've pondered before.

Should elections be compulsory?
I'm thinking that all eligible voters should be obliged to submit a ballot paper. But they should have the option on said ballot to abstain.
In the current situation we find ourselves in globally, I'm not so sure that turning up to a polling station in person is such a great idea, but in normal socially acceptable time, I think that would be fare, providing stations are sensibly placed and accessible to all.

It'd remove the argument from politicians about voter apathy and laziness to not bother to vote. Poor weather and odd-ball timing (like the last UK one) wouldn't be factors. That said, it's still a 60%+ turnout historically in my country(s).

Should there be some kind of demonstration of understanding cover sheet questionnaire?
Something I see as a problem with politics is that it's largely a popularity contest. The charismatic or funny poster boy (or girl) draws a lot of votes in, regardless of actual policies of the party. A voter doesn't have to spend any time listening or understanding policies to be able to cast a vote for a particular party/person.
Having some kind of multiple choice cover sheet which would demonstrate that the anonymous voter who has marked the attached ballot has a basic understanding of the policies.
It'd be hard to make such a cover sheet of questions, as it can't segregate against people on an academic or language level. Voters shouldn't have to be fluent in Latin, understand world economic theories, or be a mathematician to be able to answer the questions.

Combing these two things, a compulsory turnout to vote (but the option to abstain) as well as a 'capacity to vote' validation test would clear up a lot of excuses that politicians make after the results are in. It'd also more likely focus them on actually providing something decent for the people. Votes cast because other family members/friends/community leaders said to vote for this person would likely be reduced. Joke votes, random votes and 'I like this guys hair'/'she has nice shoes' votes would be reduced to a bare minimum.

This topic won't change anything, but what do you guys think?
 

pozz

Слава Україні
Forum Donor
Editor
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
4,036
Likes
6,827
That said, it's still a 60%+ turnout historically in my country(s).
For federal elections in Canada, voter turnout is 50% to 60%. In the local municipal elections, it's more like 20%.

A thought I've often had is that, if a majority don't vote, it's a vote of no-confidence in the candidates and professional politics, not a demonstration of apathy.
 

Blumlein 88

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Messages
20,524
Likes
37,057
I just went by to vote, and there is no place to park. And they have a huge parking area. I've never had to wait behind more than 3 people in any election the past several years. Looks like a line that will take 2 or 3 hours to get thru. I'll go back later and give it another try.

I do think ownership of real property should be a requirement to vote. Having some skin in the game to my way of thinking.
 

tmtomh

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 14, 2018
Messages
2,636
Likes
7,495
I do think ownership of real property should be a requirement to vote. Having some skin in the game to my way of thinking.

Um, no. The U.S. got rid of that - it was declared unconstitutional, and for good reason. Material wealth is IMHO a terrible measure of skin in the game for a democracy.
 

Archaea

Active Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2020
Messages
158
Likes
391
Location
Kansas City Metro
We are very nearly at this tipping point in US politics.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Fraser_Tytler,_Lord_Woodhouselee#Debatable_attribution


“A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.”


——

We’ll try another failed round of the socialism experiment first, before we go full dictatorship. Ultimately, the writing is on the wall.

I do think if there was some minimum level of requirement to vote, a clearance bar of some kind required to vote could slow the advance of the inevitable. People who pay at least X amount in taxes, people who pass a current events or issue awareness quiz, etc. But this admittedly gets tricky or impossible to fairly implement. If you’ve ever watched Mark Dice Man on the street videos you can understand why people should not be voting in utter ignorance as puppets.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLa8S4GilqogQRwblg-wi17_-z5jhPuxVV

Example: Who is Joe Biden (when he was Vice President of the United States)

People who agree with Obama repealing the Bill of Rights (of course false - but proving American's don't even know what the Bill of Rights is. Our Country is chock full of Idiots who take their privilege and prosperity wholly for granted.)
 
Last edited:

deprogrammed

Active Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2020
Messages
183
Likes
252
Location
Dayton Ohio
I just went by to vote, and there is no place to park. And they have a huge parking area. I've never had to wait behind more than 3 people in any election the past several years. Looks like a line that will take 2 or 3 hours to get thru. I'll go back later and give it another try.

I do think ownership of real property should be a requirement to vote. Having some skin in the game to my way of thinking.

I think the lines will be long all day. Stay home....
 

RayDunzl

Grand Contributor
Central Scrutinizer
Joined
Mar 9, 2016
Messages
13,204
Likes
16,984
Location
Riverview FL

Doodski

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
Messages
20,752
Likes
20,766
Location
Canada
In Canada the schools close for the day and then the schools can be used as a voting station for that local. Special voting stations are also opened in certain areas. I've never waited more than 3 people in line. It's all very hands on and if one does not have proper identification with the address on it they can produce documents to prove this. Yet many never vote.
 

pozz

Слава Україні
Forum Donor
Editor
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
4,036
Likes
6,827
I just went by to vote, and there is no place to park. And they have a huge parking area. I've never had to wait behind more than 3 people in any election the past several years. Looks like a line that will take 2 or 3 hours to get thru. I'll go back later and give it another try.
Are you in a state where you're assigned a polling location?
 

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
44,374
Likes
234,462
Location
Seattle Area
We have mail in ballots here and drop boxes everywhere. It was a 10 second affair to drop the envelop last night at one of the boxes. Prior to that though, it took me hours to research all the local issues and candidates. Had not heard of any of them. I would have wanted to be more informed about these local votes but there just isn't the coverage that we have on national ones.
 

617

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 18, 2019
Messages
2,404
Likes
5,296
Location
Somerville, MA
Please vote everyone.

I wish it was as easy everywhere as here. They sent me a ballot, I mailed it in. Voted for president, a few offices, for ranked choice voting and for right to repair. Ballot accepted two weeks ago.
 

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
44,374
Likes
234,462
Location
Seattle Area
I wish it was as easy everywhere as here. They sent me a ballot, I mailed it in. Voted for president, a few offices, for ranked choice voting and for right to repair.
Right to repair got on a ballot? Amazing. No politician wants to take it forward from what I hear.
 
OP
L5730

L5730

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Oct 6, 2018
Messages
669
Likes
436
Location
East of England
@Blumlein 88 I have to disagree with property ownership being a prerequisite to voting eligibility. We have a large number of people such as junior doctors, nurses, police, firefighters, food processing employees who cannot afford to get on the housing ladder, yet are worth more to society than the fellow who is bodging up houses he buys cheap at auction and flipping them to pay off the last mortgage.
If the right government got into power, perhaps it would be easier for regular people to get on the property ladder, that's a separate discussion though.

My local polling station was moved from one side of our district to the other. What used to be a 10 minute walk, is now 25 minutes. As there are a number of 70+ yr olds around my local streets, it seems daft and inconsiderate. It's not like the building that was used for years isn't vacant and council owned property! We do have the option for registering for postal ballot and there isn't a big hoo-ha about postal ballots in the UK.

@pozz Sure, a low turn out would mostly suggest that all options weren't worth the bother to turn up to put an 'x' for. However, politicians will argue that it's raining, too warm, people are hungover from partying the day before, literally anything than accept that they suck, have crud policies or can't/won't actually define their policies and have no ability to get the message of what they stand for out to the voter. Politicians are generally regarded as a particular type of human being...

If there is an option for mail ballots, then I suppose having a national holiday on one day to vote in person isn't really required, so long as the stations stay open long enough to be available to all kinds of work patterns.
 

BDWoody

Chief Cat Herder
Moderator
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 9, 2019
Messages
6,948
Likes
22,625
Location
Mid-Atlantic, USA. (Maryland)
Hope all who can vote do so. Requested a mail-in ballot, got it a few days later, mailed it back, and I can track that it has been accepted.

My son will be voting in person on his way home from work. I will be interested in what the lines are like up here in a fairly rural county.
 

DonH56

Master Contributor
Technical Expert
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 15, 2016
Messages
7,835
Likes
16,497
Location
Monument, CO
Forcing voters to vote will likely result in a lot of random ballots or empty ones that we (the taxpayers) would still have to pay for counting. My vote (oof) would be for better education in schools on the reasons and importance of voting as well as reinforcement of our constitution and republic since so many do not seem to understand them.
 
Last edited:

pozz

Слава Україні
Forum Donor
Editor
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
4,036
Likes
6,827
Online voting and full transparency into government budgets and cashflows should be the norm. You should be able to visit the city website and view all of the allocations and monthlies. That would move the unglamorous accounting job from the back of the back office to full glory.
 

pozz

Слава Україні
Forum Donor
Editor
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
4,036
Likes
6,827
In the US, are "spoiled" ballots counted? These are ballots that are either deliberately or erroneously filled-in. It's an established act of civil disobedience/protest in Canada.
 

Frank Dernie

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 24, 2016
Messages
6,445
Likes
15,781
Location
Oxfordshire
“A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.”
Study of the systems of government all around the world shows this to be a mistaken opinion.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom