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AudioQuest Wind High-end Cable Review

TheWalkman

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Amir,

Do you think these cables would improve the sound of my $50 PiZero streamer? Would a pair sound twice as good?

Enquiring minds want to know!

ACC4226C-9920-4718-8475-1F14E27CBE48.jpeg
 
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Beershaun

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1603923648722.png
 

Universal Cereal Bus

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I doubt that there is any licensing involved for I2C, it’s from 1982.. any patents would have long expired by now.
These are good points. In general, the fundamental patents describing a given technology should predate that tech. But you will still see improvements and implementation-specific patents filed years or decades later. It's not out of the question that patents relating to tech from the 80s are still alive in the 2000s. Why are there so many LDPC patents filed now despite LDPC being discovered by Gallagher in the 60s?

All patents nowadays expire a number of years after filing, no matter how long it takes to get the application granted. Pre-1995 US patents, however, could expire up to 17 years after grant. For example, you file an I2C patent in 1982 and you prosecute that application for 10 years, granting in 1992. Your patent will expire in 2009, well past HDMI standardization.

Submarine patents are a fun wiki read.
 
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Sal1950

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Zooming in, I was surprised that it is made in Japan, Hitachi cable!
Looks to be a nice cable, Low capacitance & oxygen free copper I infer from the markings.
 

CDMC

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50/50 divided between speakers and “everything else” is ridiculous.

There are no hard and fast rules. Set a budget for yourself and then pick the best components you can within that budget. There often is not a direct correlation between price and sound quality. More often, the correlation is between price and bling.

If I were to do it all over, I’d buy the best pair of Genelec monitors I could afford and then an Okto DAC and call it a day.

It really is. For passive speakers, a user would be hard pressed to do any better than a MiniDSP SHD for $1200 and a NC502 based amp. For $2,000 you get a streamer, DSP, Dirac, SINAD that exceeds 16 bit audio, 350w/ch 8 ohms, 500w/ch 4 ohms and the ability to drive 2 ohms loads. Throw in $200 for Blue Jeans or Worlds Best Cables (speaker and connections) and the rest of the budget really is for subs, speakers and any room treatment if needed.
 

CDMC

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I used to be an audiophilistine when I first started a decade ago. Had my cables(interconnects) custom made, with silver wires and solid gold connectors... $$$ gone. I had cables made to be 'warm' or 'cold' sounding to sort of EQ my AMP/DAC setup and give me the best possible sound I wanted. Oh what bullshit that is now, a deep part inside of me is still raw and bleeding from all the shit I spent thinking it did made a difference when actually, it was just DSP we never really consider.. You know, your brain.

I fortunately never fell that far down the rabbit hole. I got as far as about $200 for a closeout pair of Wireworld Oasis 3+ speaker cables, ironically the only cables I have ever had fail, as one connection was poorly soldered and corroded. I played with a few $100 Cardas cables, but sold them for what I paid (used). Most of my RCAs are Wireworld, because they were on closeout for less than $30 a pair about 20 years ago. My new cables are all Worlds Best Cables from Amazon and I have been happy with them.
 

hmscott

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Sure. Here is a shot of it:

Zooming in, I was surprised that it is made in Japan, Hitachi cable!

It is even directional for bloody sake! <- Big Tell there. :)

I wonder if it came with one of my high-end Sony DVD or SACD players of the time. It certainly has been a durable cable and I often use for S/PDIF connections.
At first I was going to joke that it was nice of them to throw in a free audiophile-grade cable, but it looks like there's actually a fanbase for Hitachi LC-OFC cables. The LC-OFC (linear crystal oxygen free copper) process was patented by Hitachi:

"So the story goes... 1975, Hitachi developed their own method for reducing grain or crystal boundaries. LC-OFC is Hitachi's patented process and their exclusive product. After extrusion, the copper wire is re-heated, or annealed, which reduces impurities between the crystal boundaries as the copper crystal grows and leads to a longer grain length. A typical crystal (or grain) in a 1mm diameter LC-OFC conductor is 130 mm long."

https://theaudiostandard.net/thread/1117/lc-ofc
https://patents.google.com/patent/US4582545

So you actually have a rare and desirable free cable. :D
Omg, you used an Oyaide cable marked as hitachi when comparing with AQ. Everyone knows Oyaide cables are better than AQ.
But it doesn't have any batteries like AQ Wind has. I can hook that up pretty easy though. What can I get for it then? $3,000???
"generic 1 meter cable I got for free in a DVD player I think some 20 years ago"

Yeah, that's a very desirable "high-end" cable from that era, you might want to use a real "junk" cable for your "generic 1 meter cable" to best comparisons - this 99.99% LC-OFC copper cable is a "ringer".

"Linear Crystal - Oxygen Free Copper"

I recall those being sought after way back when, and found this from 2001:

Hitachi LC-OFC interconnects
https://www.audioasylum.com/audio/cables/messages/3/37441.html

"The SAX-102 interconnect is 99.99% LC-OFC copper in PE insulation...looking at the spec-sheet .... the inner jacket is PE too. with a LC-OFC shield under the PVC outer-jacket. "

The rest of the posts in that thread are interesting reading as well, as well as some "old" leads on where to get more LC-OFC cable...
"Jerry Foreman of Precision Audio Supply was the importer of this well over a decade ago and might have some left...Try 562-862-1313 after business hours west coast time......Thought that Hitachi used a low temperature teflon extruded slowly over the copper, but haven't seen these in a very long time...... "

"Does anyone have an e-mail or web-based contact for Jerry Foreman? "

"WOW,I used to buy things from Jerry years ago...I still have lots of LC-OFC(with teflon)hook-up wire I bought from him as well as various quality capacitors etc.... I didn't know he was in business any more...but it turns out he obviously has moved and must live real close(same area code). I remember Jerry being one of the nicest people too with good prices."
"I'm curious what you think of these. I bought some SAX-102 15 years ago and still think they are very good. They measure very low capacitance, around 16pf/ft ...and when kept short they are extremely neutral with good detail. Soundstage/depth could be better.
But, you need to cut off their terminations, and use something better. I use the Vampire locking RCAs with Teflon....it really helps the bass and resolution/detail.

I sent an email to Hitachi Japan and they actually found some old inventory for me in the USA locally(Hitachi Cable Torrance). They were sitting around for a decade or so! All they had was 1.5 and 2 meter pairs..... They sold each pair to me for $15! This was only a month ago or so. They still have boat loads more because nobody knows about this. Go ahead and email me and we can talk about it more if your interested.

I hunted round the hitchi cable site in japan, and they do have specs for XLR, S-Vidio, and other cables....but alas I cannot find anybody who carries them overseas even. If you find anything else on where to get these, please let me know. Hitachi tells me they are only orderable in lots of 1000!... Oh well... I'd LOVE to get some of these.

If you look closely at the way the SAX-102 IC is constructed, there is no way any small garage type cable company can create a cable like this...with the PE dialectric held tight and fixed distance using a solid sheath of some kind with very high quality shielding on top of that, all under PVC. A real bitch to terminate though.

I wire all my lower-end peripherals with this stuff.

JimT"
From: https://worldradiohistory.com/hd2/I...DX/80s/Studio-Sound-1987-04-OCR-Page-0053.pdf
Audio Technica Both LC -OFC interconnects and LC -OFC loudspeaker cables are available. Three interconnects are available in the Vital Link range -AT628 a 300 -strand LC -OFC cable; AT620, a Litz wire cable with polypropylene double shield and 610a, a high conductivity cable with ground wire. AT635 (LC -OFC) and ÁT631 are both flat twin loudspeaker cables, the former having four 75- strand conductors and the latter two 100- strand high purity copper conductors. UK: Audio Technica (UK) Ltd, Technica House, Lockwood Close, Leeds LS11 5UU. Tel: 0532 771441. USA: Audio -Technica US Inc, 1221 Commerce Drive, Stow, OH 44224. Tel: (216) 686-2600.

On ebay right now:
1603945536564.png

https://www.ebay.com/itm/AT625-LC-O...nica-NEW-GENUINE-Cable-Conductor/133150623004
1603945687934.png

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Audio-Technica-LC-OFC-Japan/352773563942
I recall when new optical standards were released the top contender hardware implementations also often included an equally top end cable. I'm also recalling a conversation with a Hitachi rep way back then asking where I can get more... sigh.

LC-OFC cable is still selling on Ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_nkw=Hitachi+LC-OFC&_sacat=0
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...LH_TitleDesc=0&_osacat=0&_odkw=Hitachi+LC-OFC

Do you recall which make / model Hitachi based optical unit that cable came from?
People will see Amir is up to his old tricks again. Trying to effect the reputation of a AQ by throwing in a ringer. A super special cable from yore while pretending it was some throw away just left hanging around. ;)

He needs to test the cable Ray posted a picture of or maybe some coax RG6 interconnect.
I agree, let's see a real junk cable from 30+ years ago in the test (LC-OFC released in late 1980's(?)). BTW, I'm not a fan of AQ cable "magic" so I've got no interest in making the AQ cable look better, but I think a real junk box audio cable would provide "fairer" comparison material when advertised as such.
 
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Billy Budapest

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Throw in $200 for Blue Jeans or Worlds Best Cables (speaker and connections) and the rest of the budget really is for subs, speakers and any room treatment if needed.

Really, going with any pro audio cable (Belden, Canare, Mogami, Van Damme, Klotz, Van Den Hul, Gotham, etc.) and pro connectors (Neutrik, Switchcraft, Amphenol, etc.) is going to give you good results. Heck, even the well constructed versions of cheap/freebie cable will work well.

Notice I said “good results” rather than “good sound.” I don’t think any of the above cable stocks and connectors will sound any different than the others. However, buying a quality cable will get you a more robust and durable product.
 

Sal1950

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Really, going with any pro audio cable (Belden, Canare, Mogami, Van Damme, Klotz, Van Den Hul, Gotham, etc.) and pro connectors (Neutrik, Switchcraft, Amphenol, etc.) is going to give you good results. Heck, even the well constructed versions of cheap/freebie cable will work well.

Notice I said “good results” rather than “good sound.” I don’t think any of the above cable stocks and connectors will sound any different than the others. However, buying a quality cable will get you a more robust and durable product.
Good post, that about nails it.
 

Vapor9

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I don't believe for a minute that cables don't make an audible difference in a high-quality system. That does not mean that there aren't snake oil prices for products that perform the same or worse as much lower-priced products. However, to think that different geometries, wire thickness, insulation, composition and overall assembly does not affect sound, is just plain wrong. Does using a certain cable mean it will get your system closer to musical reality? No, the illusive reality itself is very subjective, but I do not think this cable review is even close in giving us the full story.

I believe Stereophile's recent experiment is the closest I've read about documenting cable differences...
https://www.stereophile.com/content/what-difference-wire-makes

I'm now prepared for the onslaught of people telling me a coat hanger is just as good or only marginally worse. :)
 

Billy Budapest

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I don't believe for a minute that cables don't make an audible difference in a high-quality system. That does not mean that there aren't snake oil prices for products that perform the same or worse as much lower-priced products. However, to think that different geometries, wire thickness, insulation, composition and overall assembly does not affect sound, is just plain wrong. Does using a certain cable mean it will get your system closer to musical reality? No, the illusive reality itself is very subjective, but I do not think this cable review is even close in giving us the full story.

I believe Stereophile's recent experiment is the closest I've read about documenting cable differences...
https://www.stereophile.com/content/what-difference-wire-makes

I'm now prepared for the onslaught of people telling me a coat hanger is just as good or only marginally worse. :)
A coat hanger would be way worse. It has no dielectric, no insulation, no shield, and is made from an inferior conductor—usually steel.

It has been shown that different cable geometries and materials can measure differently, but unless the cable is broken in some substantial way, it shouldn’t have any audible effect on the sound.

Everything that can be heard can be measured, but not everything that can be measured can be heard.
 
OP
amirm

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Do you recall which make / model Hitachi based optical unit that cable came from?
I don't recall owning anything from Hitachi so the cable must have come with another product.
 

hmscott

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I don't recall owning anything from Hitachi so the cable must have come with another product.
The product probably would have come out around the late 80's / early 90's as I recall. It was so long ago, but I inquired about the LC-OFC cable stock of the vendor that included a Hitachi cable built with LC-OFC as a pack-in for their product. I was at an industrial hardware / software conference and the vendor handed me off to an in-booth Hitachi rep. The vendor may have only used a Hitachi mechanism and threw in the audio cable bundled by Hitachi as part of the mechanism package.

If you recall, please let us know. :)
 
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Vapor9

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A coat hanger would be way worse. It has no dielectric, no insulation, no shield, and is made from an inferior conductor—usually steel.

It has been shown that different cable geometries and materials can measure differently, but unless the cable is broken in some substantial way, it shouldn’t have any audible effect on the sound.

Everything that can be heard can be measured, but not everything that can be measured can be heard.

Shouldn't is the operative word there. I don't think we can reliably measure a person's ability to hear differences and I don't believe double-blind testing solves that.
 
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amirm

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I believe Stereophile's recent experiment is the closest I've read about documenting cable differences...
https://www.stereophile.com/content/what-difference-wire-makes
It is not recent. The article was published in 1995. It is posted on their site now. That aside, it is a faulty test. A person in the letters section explains why:

Cable physics
Editor: I am writing regarding Ben Duncan's "What a Difference a Wire Makes" (December '95, p.95). The time-domain results shown are hardly surprising, especially given that his test signal "representing a music transient" bears little similarity to a musical signal at all.

Musical signals have an unmistakable amplitude envelope, a fact well-known to synthesizer designers. Percussive sounds may start with a rapid onset, but they all end with a controlled decay. The end of the [1kHz] toneburst used in his tests bears more similarity to a squarewave than to a musical source. The maximum slew rate of a sinewave occurs at the zero crossing, and this is where the tone burst suddenly ends. For example, look at his fig.7 (Vol.18 No.12, p.100). Cover up the waveform to the left of the "4.00m" mark. Note that the end of the toneburst not only looks like the rising edge of a squarewave, [this is a visual illusion due to the large vertical amplification used in BD's graphs—Ed.], but also the circuit behaves as if it were (and for good reason), with harmonics similar to those shown in my fig.1.

Cables with greater inductance and amplifiers with lower damping factor will have a higher impedance at higher frequencies, which permits greater ringing with transient signals. The end of a 15kHz toneburst could certainly be considered "transient" since its slew rate is 15 times greater than at 1kHz. Whether or not the >100kHz ringing observed is "common" is unproven without a larger sample of amplifiers. Whether it makes an audible difference is yet another question that perhaps bats could answer.

The amplifier I tested does not exhibit this "imperfection" even at frequencies greater than 15kHz, in spite of the amplifier's relatively large negative feedback. On the other hand, this amplifier's damping factor remains constant and high across the audio spectrum. So which will make the greater difference—the amplifier, cable, or speaker? If Mr. Duncan had used a different amplifier, the cable effects at 15kHz would have been masked less by the amplifier's artifacts.

Even if we were to accept a toneburst with no amplitude envelope control as a possible musical source from an electronic instrument, no evidence is shown that the measured effects are actually audible. If they were in any way audible, then I'm certain that data would have been prominently displayed. Then the phrase "meaningful differences" would be undeniable. If no one can hear it, how important is it?

I can find nothing in Mr. Duncan's results that suggests "logic" concerning special cables for mains. I have never seen current waveforms into power supplies that even remotely resemble an isolated double-sine toneburst. The fundamental frequencies involved are so low (50Hz/60Hz) that even the harmonics will not be profoundly affected by mains-cable inductance (even without considering the tens of thousands of microfarads of filter capacitance that follow in a typical power supply). What degree of real improvement could be expected by changing the last meter or two of cable at the end of several kilometers of mains wiring?

Mr. Duncan's data concur with mine: The effects of a speaker cable, though measurable, are small compared to amplifier artifacts. Once again, we are left with clearly measurable differences between speaker cables, but no proof that these differences are audible.—Fred E. Davis, Connecticut
 

SIY

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It is not recent. The article was published in 1995. It is posted on their site now. That aside, it is a faulty test. A person in the letters section explains why:

Cable physics
Editor: I am writing regarding Ben Duncan's "What a Difference a Wire Makes" (December '95, p.95). The time-domain results shown are hardly surprising, especially given that his test signal "representing a music transient" bears little similarity to a musical signal at all.

Musical signals have an unmistakable amplitude envelope, a fact well-known to synthesizer designers. Percussive sounds may start with a rapid onset, but they all end with a controlled decay. The end of the [1kHz] toneburst used in his tests bears more similarity to a squarewave than to a musical source. The maximum slew rate of a sinewave occurs at the zero crossing, and this is where the tone burst suddenly ends. For example, look at his fig.7 (Vol.18 No.12, p.100). Cover up the waveform to the left of the "4.00m" mark. Note that the end of the toneburst not only looks like the rising edge of a squarewave, [this is a visual illusion due to the large vertical amplification used in BD's graphs—Ed.], but also the circuit behaves as if it were (and for good reason), with harmonics similar to those shown in my fig.1.

Cables with greater inductance and amplifiers with lower damping factor will have a higher impedance at higher frequencies, which permits greater ringing with transient signals. The end of a 15kHz toneburst could certainly be considered "transient" since its slew rate is 15 times greater than at 1kHz. Whether or not the >100kHz ringing observed is "common" is unproven without a larger sample of amplifiers. Whether it makes an audible difference is yet another question that perhaps bats could answer.

The amplifier I tested does not exhibit this "imperfection" even at frequencies greater than 15kHz, in spite of the amplifier's relatively large negative feedback. On the other hand, this amplifier's damping factor remains constant and high across the audio spectrum. So which will make the greater difference—the amplifier, cable, or speaker? If Mr. Duncan had used a different amplifier, the cable effects at 15kHz would have been masked less by the amplifier's artifacts.

Even if we were to accept a toneburst with no amplitude envelope control as a possible musical source from an electronic instrument, no evidence is shown that the measured effects are actually audible. If they were in any way audible, then I'm certain that data would have been prominently displayed. Then the phrase "meaningful differences" would be undeniable. If no one can hear it, how important is it?

I can find nothing in Mr. Duncan's results that suggests "logic" concerning special cables for mains. I have never seen current waveforms into power supplies that even remotely resemble an isolated double-sine toneburst. The fundamental frequencies involved are so low (50Hz/60Hz) that even the harmonics will not be profoundly affected by mains-cable inductance (even without considering the tens of thousands of microfarads of filter capacitance that follow in a typical power supply). What degree of real improvement could be expected by changing the last meter or two of cable at the end of several kilometers of mains wiring?

Mr. Duncan's data concur with mine: The effects of a speaker cable, though measurable, are small compared to amplifier artifacts. Once again, we are left with clearly measurable differences between speaker cables, but no proof that these differences are audible.—Fred E. Davis, Connecticut

Note that Fred Davis was one of the two people who analyzed and demonstrated cable effects and non-effects back when the craze was really taking off (Dick Greiner was the other). Their work was definitive, but didn't really slow down the spread of ignorance.
 

CDMC

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Really, going with any pro audio cable (Belden, Canare, Mogami, Van Damme, Klotz, Van Den Hul, Gotham, etc.) and pro connectors (Neutrik, Switchcraft, Amphenol, etc.) is going to give you good results. Heck, even the well constructed versions of cheap/freebie cable will work well.

Notice I said “good results” rather than “good sound.” I don’t think any of the above cable stocks and connectors will sound any different than the others. However, buying a quality cable will get you a more robust and durable product.

I think you would be hard pressed to do it for less than $200. It runs about $100 for a pair of speaker cables, and a couple of pairs of XLR or RCA will run you $80 of so. Ironically, I have found Mogami pro cables to be significantly more expensive than getting them from Worlds Best with Amphenol or Nuetrik connectors. I agree, they all sound the same, unless you get a really high emf environment where a star quad cable may pixk up less noise. .
 
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