• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Rythmik L12 Subwoofer Review

CumSum

Active Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2019
Messages
106
Likes
116
Why would people paint rusty metal without sanding and priming first? Plopping a subwoofer down in a convenient spot and pressing the magic room correction button is a lazy band aid that most likely will not yield the best results. Say in the first spot you have a peak in the response right next to a null. The room correction will try to boost the null and cut the peak. Boosting to fill a null (or boosting of any kind) puts strain on the amplifier, reduces its maximum volume before clipping and dynamic range. Cutting the peak is effective but still a compromise compared to a smooth response you get from proper location and tuning.
If you take the time to position and tune properly you set up a firm foundation for the acoustic relationships so that any room correction will have an easy job - and you might not need it after all.

Why are you treating DSP with such disdain? DSP is the perfect tool to flatten out peaks and match your response to a target curve, and anyone with an ounce of knowledge knows that boosting nulls accomplishes nothing. Good automated room corrections will not boost nulls.

Of course DSP should be the last step after you have optimized everything you can control. But in most cases DSP will be necessary, even if you optimize everything else as best you can.

If you have 4 subs in a large room then DSP probably won't be necessary, but a single sub in a small awkwardly shaped room is going to require the use of DSP to get a half decent response.
 

3dbinCanada

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2020
Messages
408
Likes
242
I have to rewrite one line on my post 401...All the bass output at the port tuning frequency is due to the port. No contribution is made from the driver at that point and bass falls off rather steeply below port tuning. The overall output is fairly linear as seen my the reviews at databass.com . You dont like that bass contribution comes from the port instead of the driver?
 

3dbinCanada

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2020
Messages
408
Likes
242
I dont have room enough for multiple subs and Im near retirement now and discretionary spending is down big time. That being said, I would love at least one other sub in my basement to even out the bass response. Where I have my sub located at the moment, it emphasizes the 20 to 30 Hz frequencies but drops the amplitude as the frequency moves up towards 60. After that, the amplitude increases slightly again. The second location I have chosen fills in the gap between 30 and 60 Hz. I would need DSP to properly tune these two subs together with respect to the listener position.
 

yourmando

Active Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2020
Messages
150
Likes
178
Love those Rythmik subs! Like @Ron Texas I have a pair of L12's and LS50's mains, sound great. Like @Olli I have a pair of F18's with my JBL 4722's:

View attachment 55170

I cross the subs at 46 Hz, between room modes. Seamless integration using digital XO and room correction. My measurement mic is calibrated to 5 Hz. Using REW's default window of 500ms with no smoothing:

View attachment 55173

I am also a fan of time aligning drivers to get as best step (transient) response as possible:

View attachment 55172

5Hz to 24 kHz sweep at the LP. The Rythmik subs go very deep, as they should. You know, subs are supposed to "sub" :)

The F18's are 900 watts aside and the JBL cabs with the dual 15" gets 575 watts a side, so just shy of about 3000 watts of power for 630 Hz and below. They sound super tight and deep, with no overhang and huge transient punch. Lots of fun for music and movies.
Do you happen to know how many ms of latency you have with your Audiolense FIR EQ + time alignment DSP down to 5hz?

I'm thinking about dual F18's as well :)
 

DonH56

Master Contributor
Technical Expert
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 15, 2016
Messages
7,835
Likes
16,498
Location
Monument, CO
DSP is always necessary with subwoofers.

Why? I used a simple analog approach for decades, with an all-pass filter for delay and PEQ to handle the primary room mode or three, long before DSP was around. DSP makes it easier and arguably more precise, but I would not say it is always necessary. More recently, the flattest response I have had in my room was using the phase and single-band PEQ on my Rythmik sub, again all analog. I have much more powerful DSP now but the subwoofer region is dominated by one or two room modes so all that horsepower isn't making it significantly better than without DSP. It does make the transition smoother and easier to integrate, but the difference is not large. For that matter you can do a pretty good job with placement and delay even without EQ. I would not give up DSP, but would not say it is always necessary.

IME/IMO - Don
 

Chromatischism

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 5, 2020
Messages
4,767
Likes
3,706
Why? I used a simple analog approach for decades, with an all-pass filter for delay and PEQ to handle the primary room mode or three, long before DSP was around. DSP makes it easier and arguably more precise, but I would not say it is always necessary. More recently, the flattest response I have had in my room was using the phase and single-band PEQ on my Rythmik sub, again all analog. I have much more powerful DSP now but the subwoofer region is dominated by one or two room modes so all that horsepower isn't making it significantly better than without DSP. It does make the transition smoother and easier to integrate, but the difference is not large. For that matter you can do a pretty good job with placement and delay even without EQ. I would not give up DSP, but would not say it is always necessary.
Of course, there's always someone with 4 subs and decades of experience who says analog can do a fine job :)

I don't doubt it, though in the majority of people's setups (irregular rooms/living rooms, one sub) I think DSP is indispensable. Even for a multi-sub system DSP is, as you say, more precise. I have doubts that I could achieve the smoothness that I have recently with only analog controls. I do love the PEQ on Rythmik subs, though, as it adds another level of control that most don't have.
 

DonH56

Master Contributor
Technical Expert
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 15, 2016
Messages
7,835
Likes
16,498
Location
Monument, CO
Of course, there's always someone with 4 subs and decades of experience who says analog can do a fine job :)

I don't doubt it, though in the majority of people's setups (irregular rooms/living rooms, one sub) I think DSP is indispensable. Even for a multi-sub system DSP is, as you say, more precise. I have doubts that I could achieve the smoothness that I have recently with only analog controls. I do love the PEQ on Rythmik subs, though, as it adds another level of control that most don't have.

For the record, I was thinking about my first, single DIY sub (also a servo similar to Brian's/Rythmik's) that I built around 1980~1982. I actually think DSP is more helpful if not vital for multiple subs since you need to align them to work together. A single sub, or mono pair, dealing with one or two room modes doesn't need a lot of horsepower IME. That said, a bigger room with openings and angles, would be much more challenging. Mea culpa.
 
Last edited:

bladerunner6

Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 24, 2020
Messages
73
Likes
46
I have a BIC V1220 sub and I want something more musical and was looking at this one. I still want some “oomph” for home theater though.

I will be using it in a smaller dedicated media room, most likely a second/third bedroom in our next house. If not a bedroom, almost certainly not in a room any bigger than 12 by 15.

Would this be a good match for our needs?

Thanks.
 

MZKM

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 1, 2018
Messages
4,244
Likes
11,487
Location
Land O’ Lakes, FL
I have a BIC V1220 sub and I want something more musical and was looking at this one. I still want some “oomph” for home theater though.

I will be using it in a smaller dedicated media room, most likely a second/third bedroom in our next house. If not a bedroom, almost certainly not in a room any bigger than 12 by 15.

Would this be a good match for our needs?

Thanks.
I would opt for the ported version, still a good subwoofer, but will have more output in the 20Hz-30Hz region, you don’t want to spend that much money and possibly be disappointed it doesn’t have enough oomph (and with Rythmik you have to pay return shipping, which keeps the base price low).
 

bladerunner6

Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 24, 2020
Messages
73
Likes
46
I would opt for the ported version, still a good subwoofer, but will have more output in the 20Hz-30Hz region, you don’t want to spend that much money and possibly be disappointed it doesn’t have enough oomph (and with Rythmik you have to pay return shipping, which keeps the base price low).
You mean the LV12F?

Any other ideas in this price range, please?

Thanks.
 

3dbinCanada

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2020
Messages
408
Likes
242
I have a BIC V1220 sub and I want something more musical and was looking at this one. I still want some “oomph” for home theater though.

I will be using it in a smaller dedicated media room, most likely a second/third bedroom in our next house. If not a bedroom, almost certainly not in a room any bigger than 12 by 15.

Would this be a good match for our needs?

Thanks.

I would also go with a ported sub, especially from Rythmik and their servo technology. I have an entry leveL LV-12R rear ported version and that gave me more than enough bass in a room much larger than yours. I set the controls for extension, not max output and I was always told to turn it down.
I use it for both music and movies.
 

preload

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 19, 2020
Messages
1,554
Likes
1,701
Location
California
Why doesn't Rhythmik have its more mainstream subs (like the L12) sent for CEA-2010 testing? Every manufacturer seems to have its own "technical explanations" for why its subs sound better, and I'm not quite convinced by their marketing stuff.
 

raistlin65

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Messages
2,279
Likes
3,421
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
Why doesn't Rhythmik have its more mainstream subs (like the L12) sent for CEA-2010 testing? Every manufacturer seems to have its own "technical explanations" for why its subs sound better, and I'm not quite convinced by their marketing stuff.

Some of Rythmik's larger subs were independently tested by Josh Ricci, and they performed in support of the manufacturer claims. As a brand, I personally see little reason to doubt the performance of their other models that have not been tested.
 

Chromatischism

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 5, 2020
Messages
4,767
Likes
3,706
Why doesn't Rhythmik have its more mainstream subs (like the L12) sent for CEA-2010 testing? Every manufacturer seems to have its own "technical explanations" for why its subs sound better, and I'm not quite convinced by their marketing stuff.
Some of Rythmik's larger subs were independently tested by Josh Ricci, and they performed in support of the manufacturer claims. As a brand, I personally see little reason to doubt the performance of their other models that have not been tested.
Yeah. The F18 and FV25HP were recently tested there (as was FV15HP long ago using different settings so subtract -1 dB). Since Rythmik has a relative ranking of every sub they sell on their website, it allows us to know how the whole range stacks up. The result is that we actually have more data on Rythmik subs than just about any other commercial offering.
 

3dbinCanada

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2020
Messages
408
Likes
242
Why doesn't Rhythmik have its more mainstream subs (like the L12) sent for CEA-2010 testing? Every manufacturer seems to have its own "technical explanations" for why its subs sound better, and I'm not quite convinced by their marketing stuff.
I have an entry level LV12-R which is a rear port design and I purchased it based on JMan's review over at Hometheatershack.com . Forget what you read about ported subs being to sloppy for music. Even this entry level ported sub excels in music with no sloppy overhang or boom. Rythmik makes some of the best subs out there.
 

preload

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 19, 2020
Messages
1,554
Likes
1,701
Location
California
Yeah. The F18 and FV25HP were recently tested there (as was FV15HP long ago using different settings so subtract -1 dB). Since Rythmik has a relative ranking of every sub they sell on their website, it allows us to know how the whole range stacks up. The result is that we actually have more data on Rythmik subs than just about any other commercial offering.

I'm aware of the test of their 18" and dual 15" designs. But when I'm interested in a 12" or 13" model, which uses a completely different driver and much smaller cabinet, I simply cannot generalize the results. That's like driving a Porsche 911 and assuming a Cayenne is going to handle the same.

In fact, I find it kind of suspicious that there are no CEA-2010 tests available for the 12" and 13" sized Rhythmik subs, particularly since there are a lot well-designed offerings from SVS, JL, etc. I ended up considering, but not purchasing a Rhythmik because the manufacturer didn't have any directly comparable data to send me (another red flag).
 

3dbinCanada

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2020
Messages
408
Likes
242
I'm aware of the test of their 18" and dual 15" designs. But when I'm interested in a 12" or 13" model, which uses a completely different driver and much smaller cabinet, I simply cannot generalize the results. That's like driving a Porsche 911 and assuming a Cayenne is going to handle the same.

In fact, I find it kind of suspicious that there are no CEA-2010 tests available for the 12" and 13" sized Rhythmik subs, particularly since there are a lot well-designed offerings from SVS, JL, etc. I ended up considering, but not purchasing a Rhythmik because the manufacturer didn't have any directly comparable data to send me (another red flag).
The LV12-R was tested but I guess you missed. As far as I know, Rythmik doesnt make any 13" subs
 

preload

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 19, 2020
Messages
1,554
Likes
1,701
Location
California
The LV12-R was tested but I guess you missed. As far as I know, Rythmik doesnt make any 13" subs

Perhaps you can link the CEA-2010 results for the LV12-R.
You're correct, no such thing as a 13" Rhythmik sub.
 
Top Bottom