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✳ This is it ... the scientific topic we always wanted to discuss ...

raif71

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You do realize that, by it's very nature, any temporal incursion would have MASSIVE side effects that could not be foreseen/simulated yes?

To use such technology for something as much of a non-issue (on a human species level, mind you) as this tiny virus would do more harm than good.
There is a reason why everyone in sci-fi usually regards temporal incursions as a bad idea and time travel is strictly limited to observation and research.
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mansr

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At the end you stuck. Lets imagine there was a reason why you travelled back. Than you changed the timeflow so that there is no more reason. You would not have to travelle back. Sci-fi movies dont like this, its boring. Couse what ever you have done in the past leadet to the situation in the future.
The timeline would have to stabilise in such a way that whatever you do after arriving in the past still leads to you making the time jump. The actions of future-you in the past might even be the direct cause of your time travel. A causal loop can be free of contradictions, although it does call into the question the idea of free will.
 

tomtoo

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The timeline would have to stabilise in such a way that whatever you do after arriving in the past still leads to you making the time jump. The actions of future-you in the past might even be the direct cause of your time travel. A causal loop can be free of contradictions, although it does call into the question the idea of free will.

Free will? You think we have?
 

maverickronin

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The entire debate between free will and fatalism is based on incoherent definitions to begin with. Neither is true.

Somebody else brought up this same point about philosophical debates earlier in this thread...
 

lashto

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Not really. It doesn't explain how the "real" universe hosting the simulation came to be. Perhaps it's simulations all the way down.
It does not. But it's not like the BigBang explains schiit-all about much either. And the "perhaps" part might be true for any other theory/model.
Simulated universe is the same like god. Not a explaination for anything.
Simulated universe is the same like god.. gave you the keys to 'everything' and explained how it works too.
I don't mind that, could even be some lower level 'overlord' for all I care. Accessing the Sim "computer" will explain the whole "real" universe (as in "the one we currently live in") and also give access to the "next level". Sounds like a step-forward to me.

I can see how scientists might dislike the simulation theory, though. A scientist can spend his whole life with careful measurements and computations and discover just two 'bits' (if anything). And then some johnny-internet-dude goes looking for virtual cookies in online jars and finds the whole "42" Simulation. Schiit happens might just be the strongest law of the universe :)
 
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tomtoo

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The entire debate between free will and fatalism is based on incoherent definitions to begin with. Neither is true.

Somebody else brought up this same point about philosophical debates earlier in this thread...

Yep like all philosophie its more a point of exact definition.
 

tomtoo

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It does not. But it's not like the BigBang explains schiit-all about much either. And the "perhaps" part is not specific to the Simulation-theory, any model might be like that.

Simulated universe is the same like god.. gave you the keys to 'everything' and explained how it works too.
I don't mind that, could even be some lower level 'overlord' for all I care. Accessing the Sim "computer" will explain the whole "real" universe (as in "the one we currently live in") and also give access to the "next level". Sounds like a step-forward to me.

I can see how scientists might dislike the simulation theory, though. A scientist can spend his whole life with careful measurements and computations and discover just two 'bits' (if anything). And then some johnny-internet-dude goes looking for virtual cookies in online jars and finds the whole "42" Simulation. Schiit happens might just be the strongest law of the universe :)

Yes maybe, at the end it's hard to discuss the realyti of phanthasies. ;)
 

lashto

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You do realize that, by it's very nature, any temporal incursion would have MASSIVE side effects that could not be foreseen/simulated yes?
TimeTravel is probably the most gigantic PandoraBox. Full of paradoxes too. May be because we know so little (err nothing) about time. Or maybe time is indeed that freaky. We might not know until someone tries.
 
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lashto

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And btw, looks like our beloved OP @North_Sky might have done the time jump already :oops:

Anyone who knows what happened to him?
Hope it's not Covid-related, he mentioned somewhere else that he might belong to a health-risk group..
 
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cathodeb

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The entire debate between free will and fatalism is based on incoherent definitions to begin with. Neither is true.

Somebody else brought up this same point about philosophical debates earlier in this thread...

Exactly. Undefined terms are at the bottom of almost every debate actually and this opens up a very interesting question in my opinion: does debate serve the purpose of learning or is it used for other purposes? I think almost every interaction on the internet these days is really about something other than what the topic is.
 

tomtoo

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TimeTravel is probably the most gigantic PandoraBox. Full of paradoxes too. May be because we know so little (err nothing) about time. Or maybe time is indeed that freaky. We might not know until someone tries.

Thats why i dont like it. ;)
 

tomtoo

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Exactly. Undefined terms are at the bottom of almost every debate actually and this opens up a very interesting question in my opinion: does debate serve the purpose of learning or is it used for other purposes? I think almost every interaction on the internet these days is really about something other than what the topic is.

Thats complicated, at the end we are all human beeings. And we have our faults. So you could try to have a discussion without emotions. But no, it wont work like this. We are no time traveling vulkanians. ;)
 

tomtoo

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I had this discussion with @lashto about fishes in my amp. And no, we maybe have not the same opinions. But hell how boring would be live if we all would have the same phanthasies? And dont forget, phanthasies are a real part of our live. ;)
 

lashto

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I think almost every interaction on the internet these days is really about something other than what the topic is.
The internet is so full of freedom :)
Almost free of charge too which makes things even better...
 
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cathodeb

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The computer has got to be the most misunderstood invention ever. It is so misunderstood that some people are going around suggesting that our existence is a computer simulation. Movies are made about them. AI is regularly discussed as something uncontrolled having a life of its own. All complete rubbish. In reality, computers are very simple devices in function and those who understand how they work are not impressed with what they are capable of. Computers use transistors to indicate on and off positioning as a storage for the "digital" representation (based on agreed upon coding and protocols) of analog sound or visual end products. They are primitive task masters. Powerful yes, but not magical in any sense. They cannot do anything which cannot be done with simple pen and paper, they just do it incredibly fast. And there is no such thing as AI, there are only computer programs which determine what a machine does. The computer is nothing more than a gopher. If you can simulate life using a computer, you can also simulate a life using pen and paper. You could simulate a life using beans and peas (beans for 1s, peas for 0s) too if you had 11 billion of them and loads of time (energy bars would be helpful too). Actually you could do it with only 1 bean and 1 pea if you really have the time. So there it is, life is a pea and a bean.
 

cathodeb

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Almost free of charge too which makes things even better...

It really SHOULD be free of charge actually. It is too critical now for anyone to go without based on income. Heck, you can't even get certain things done now without it and it is getting more critical each day.
 

tomtoo

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The internet is so full of freedom :)
Almost free of charge too which makes things even better...

The reality is that we have in germany some kinde of information oligarschie. Nothing gets cheaper.
 

mansr

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It really SHOULD be free of charge actually. It is too critical now for anyone to go without based on income. Heck, you can't even get certain things done now without it and it is getting more critical each day.
Around here, a basic internet package has roughly the same monthly cost as tap water.
 
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