• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Topping E30 DAC Review

Gaboz

New Member
Joined
May 30, 2020
Messages
4
Likes
1
That certainly sounds like a bad unit.



Why attack a person, in this matter? Some of you all are trying to turn this into a forum against forum battle royale, its cult like. The more opinions, the better the conversation and the more people learn, on both sides.

The E30, as with most Topping gear that use a USB based power solution (D50s and E30) do have a blacker background, using a better power supply. No I do not have a AP system. Maybe my home has a poor grounding system, but every Topping unit I have owned, especially the ones that a USB powered, all exhibit less audible noise when using a better power supply unit versus running only usb powered. Even the review constraints (only USB powered) in the OP, versus what JohnYang commented about the PSU noise, gives "some credence" to at bare minimum a wall charger will remove some of the USB power noise.

Let's grow the forum as much as possible, bring people together, not run them off with antagonistic posts, all the time.
Mi E30 doesn't a have any noise at all, and it's plugged to a Samsung phone charger.
 

SaberCat

Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2020
Messages
20
Likes
22
E30 was designed way prior the existence of L30 project (the name even). Latest revision has up the protection voltage to make sure it doesn't break. Also mind that the L30 and E30 don't share the exact same jack. You can't plug the E30 plug into L30 jack. We did all the protection for L30, DC, over voltage, 110V plug to 220V etc. Protection for E30 is an afterthought.
That makes sense John. I must have got an older unit, it's an annoyance. As the range expands you will find more of these cross-compatibility risks....but the main issue in my case was user stupidity.
 

SaberCat

Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2020
Messages
20
Likes
22
Yeah i thought so, don't know if it's also normal but with USB - if i put my SMSL on high-gain / max volume i hear buzzing/electrical type noise. If i remove the DAC and try just the SMSL amplifier i get zero noise. Looks like this will be the last time i buy a DAC that does not have XLR connection.
For what it's worth I use an E30 on USB to my PC with both an L30 and also sometimes into a Bottlehead Crack tube amp (customised with Alps pot, Mundorf output caps and with the constant current speedball option); driving HD800 and HD650 depending on my mood. I power the E30 with a 5V iFi iPower audio PSU unit, which is not linear, and have absolutely zero noise issues.

The background is totally "black" as our subjective friends like to call it, and if I'm honest I can't really hear a difference between E30 and DX7 Pro in the same chain.

There should not be any inherent reason to insist on balanced interconnect but it can help if there are persistent ground loop issues - however in my experience this is pretty rare unless there's a badly designed component in the chain.
 

Eetu

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 11, 2020
Messages
763
Likes
1,180
Location
Helsinki
buzzing/electrical type noise.
I would check that the E30 RCA cable and power cord are not touching other cables/devices, see if clearing that makes a difference. And if you have a thin, long RCA cable perhaps try a shorter shielded one.
 

shfter

Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2020
Messages
18
Likes
9
For what it's worth I use an E30 on USB to my PC with both an L30 and also sometimes into a Bottlehead Crack tube amp (customised with Alps pot, Mundorf output caps and with the constant current speedball option); driving HD800 and HD650 depending on my mood. I power the E30 with a 5V iFi iPower audio PSU unit, which is not linear, and have absolutely zero noise issues.

The background is totally "black" as our subjective friends like to call it, and if I'm honest I can't really hear a difference between E30 and DX7 Pro in the same chain.

There should not be any inherent reason to insist on balanced interconnect but it can help if there are persistent ground loop issues - however in my experience this is pretty rare unless there's a badly designed component in the chain.
Even on high gain, max volume? Because I've tried a lot so far and still notice it. Either it's the cables, or the DAC it's self.
If i turn off the DAC - I hear the background noises / static
If i remove the DAC and take off the RCA cables but leave the RCA cables in the amplifier i hear the noise
If i remove the RCA cables from the amplifer - i hear nothing and it's perfect
If i leave RCA cables in the amplifier and DAC - but remove USB cable - It's pefect
I would check that the E30 RCA cable and power cord are not touching other cables/devices, see if clearing that makes a difference. And if you have a thin, long RCA cable perhaps try a shorter shielded one.
Just checked power cord and RCA are not touching - I'm also using these RCA cables if it matters.
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0...roduct-image-1507006118_600x.jpg?v=1598945568
I've also just ordered a different pair off Ebay to see if it's the cable.
 

bogi

Active Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2020
Messages
238
Likes
170
Location
Slovakia
Broken ground contact on RCA plug can cause such a hum with RCA cable.
Some RCA cables have shield connected to plugs only on one side. Try to reverse the cable if you will get the same result (when DAC is disconnected).
If you can, try to borrow some RCA cable to test with so you don't need to wait for your ebay order to be delivered.
 

shfter

Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2020
Messages
18
Likes
9
Broken ground contact on RCA plug can cause such a hum with RCA cable.
Some RCA cables have shield connected to plugs only on one side. Try to reverse the cable if you will get the same result (when DAC is disconnected).
If you can, try to borrow some RCA cable to test with so you don't need to wait for your ebay order to be delivered.
I'm not sure what you mean by the "shield" but here is a photo of my RCA plug with the cover unscrewed; https://i.ibb.co/nMKZc8R/20200918-234008.jpg
I cant test now, I'll have to check tomorrow though.
 

bogi

Active Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2020
Messages
238
Likes
170
Location
Slovakia
Your cable does not have any shield. There are shielded and unshielded RCA cables. Shielded ones can contain one or two wires in the shield. After short search I found good description in this post: https://www.audiocircle.com/index.p...lofm42dgo6&topic=148477.msg1588047#msg1588047

This is example of shielded cable with one wire
Mogami-W2330-Interconnect-Wire.jpg

and this with 2 wires
Coolvox-XLR-Balanced-Microphone-Cable-Female-To-Female-M-F-3-Pin-Jack-Audio-Cable-Mic.jpg_q50.jpg
 

bogi

Active Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2020
Messages
238
Likes
170
Location
Slovakia
> If i remove the DAC and take off the RCA cables but leave the RCA cables in the amplifier i hear the noise

I just tried that with L30. I hear some soft noise only on the highest gain and only in the 2nd half of the volume range.
That's normal in such a level, because the cable itself acts as antenna.
If I connect the 2nd end into E30, I hear absolutely nothing even on max. volume and high gain.

> If i leave RCA cables in the amplifier and DAC - but remove USB cable - It's pefect

As I wrote above - when all cables are in, including the USB one I hear nothing.
If you hear noise with USB cable connected, which disappears after disconnecting it, it may indicate ground loop through the USB cable, probably between computer and your SMSL amp.
Thus the questions:
Is your computer connected into the same wall socket as the SMSL amp?
How do you power E30? From computer or from 5V AD/DC adapter?
 

Robin L

Master Contributor
Joined
Sep 2, 2019
Messages
5,208
Likes
7,587
Location
1 mile east of Sleater Kinney Rd
Sorry if I'm about to get subjective, I'll attempt to be rational about it.

I notice the mantra 'round these parts that differences between DACs should be inaudible. And, at the same time, considering the older and cheaper gear I [let's face it---WE] have been using, at some point there would be an audio rubicon that's been crossed. I'd say that for most people, that happened when 24/192 became a de-facto standard both for production and consumption. What's that, 10 years ago? So when someone says that DACs ought to sound the same, they are pointing to gear being made right now. But going from a starting point of "now" and discussing the sound of digital devices and headphone amps as being a non-factor takes it a notch too far. There are electronic devices being manufactured and bought right now that Amirm would describe as "broken", that is to say, badly performing gear from an objective, measured POV, sold at all price points. You might own one of them. I know I do.

My recent experience starts with getting a cheap [very] computer. It has terrible speakers. The headphone jack has [thankfully] more than enough juice but the brightness of the sound suggests high distortion. I've been listening to most of my music lately on a tiny DAP, the Fiio M3K. Nice interface, great form factor, whimpy headphone amp. I got the Topping L30 headphone amp. I have both the Schiit Magni 3 and one of Fiio's portable headphone amps. The Magni 3 and the Fiio amp were made within the last 3 years, both are known quantities, measured well for the standards of their day. If I say the Topping is audibly better than those two amps, is it the newness of the product or the possibility that it's that much better when "All headphone amps sound alike, all DACs sound alike"? My guess is that the Topping is that much better.

This was reinforced when I got the Topping E30, plugged it into my computer [they shook hands and that was that] and started playing files from Amazon Music and YouTube. One thing was clear, it was easier to pick out low-bit rate MP3s. And it was obvious that recent remasterings can sound considerably better than my memory, although it should be noted that a lot of classical music recorded from the mid-fifties through the mid-eighties have better remasters now than they did twenty/thirty years ago and a lot of the original vinyl was objectively horrible. All of it really, if you're sensitive to the sound of inner groove distortion. The climax is at the end of the side, can't do a thing about that.

In any case, while differences between DACs 'n' Amps should be inaudible, they aren't. My cheap DAP, my old Blu-Ray player, they were top performers once, but they really aren't anymore. What these cheap and cheerful gizmos do is better than Blingy and Costly gear from 30 years ago, and there's degrees of difference right up to the present.
 

shfter

Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2020
Messages
18
Likes
9
Your cable does not have any shield. There are shielded and unshielded RCA cables. Shielded ones can contain one or two wires in the shield. After short search I found good description in this post: https://www.audiocircle.com/index.p...lofm42dgo6&topic=148477.msg1588047#msg1588047

This is example of shielded cable with one wire
Mogami-W2330-Interconnect-Wire.jpg

and this with 2 wires
Coolvox-XLR-Balanced-Microphone-Cable-Female-To-Female-M-F-3-Pin-Jack-Audio-Cable-Mic.jpg_q50.jpg
Now i understand, thank you. The cable i bought is shielded. Hopefully it helps.
> If i remove the DAC and take off the RCA cables but leave the RCA cables in the amplifier i hear the noise

I just tried that with L30. I hear some soft noise only on the highest gain and only in the 2nd half of the volume range.
That's normal in such a level, because the cable itself acts as antenna.
If I connect the 2nd end into E30, I hear absolutely nothing even on max. volume and high gain.

> If i leave RCA cables in the amplifier and DAC - but remove USB cable - It's pefect

As I wrote above - when all cables are in, including the USB one I hear nothing.
If you hear noise with USB cable connected, which disappears after disconnecting it, it may indicate ground loop through the USB cable, probably between computer and your SMSL amp.
Thus the questions:
Is your computer connected into the same wall socket as the SMSL amp?
How do you power E30? From computer or from 5V AD/DC adapter?
E30 it's connected into the same power strip as the SMSL, my E30 is also being powered by my old Samsung charger.

I just checked my PC - it's plugged right into the wall socket (direct) and not on the power-strip with the amplifier and E30.
 

Toku

Major Contributor
Joined
Apr 4, 2018
Messages
2,391
Likes
2,776
Location
Japan
Problems that remain in E30.

I'm using two E30s, but this time I bought a third E30 from Amazon.jp. The purpose of purchase is to confirm the quality change depending on the production lot of E30.
For each serial number, the first two E30s are S / N 1911 ***** and the E30 that arrived this time is S / N 2008 *****. The USB firmware of the three E30s is the latest version Ver 1.08.

As a result of comparing three E30s, there was no difference in operation. There was no change in the following symptoms I have confirmed.

1. When playing a PCM 768kHz file, the playback sound is sometimes accompanied by intense noise. The frequency of occurrence is different for each of the three units.
(Expect the next USB firmware update)

2. When switching to a song with a different bit rate, the RCA output has a certain amount of pop noise at a low level, and if it is directly connected to a power amplifier that has no volume at the input, the noise may be a little worrisome.
(A more reliable mute operation is required.)
 
  • Like
Reactions: GDK

bogi

Active Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2020
Messages
238
Likes
170
Location
Slovakia
E30 it's connected into the same power strip as the SMSL, my E30 is also being powered by my old Samsung charger.

I just checked my PC - it's plugged right into the wall socket (direct) and not on the power-strip with the amplifier and E30.
Shielded cable provides better protection against EMI and RFI than twisted one ... but I still think you may have ground loop.
I would try to plug the PC into the power strip too. Try also some other USB charger with E30, or try to power E30 from computer USB port, if something changes. If you can, try to play from a battery powered notebook or tablet.
 

JohnYang1997

Master Contributor
Technical Expert
Audio Company
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
7,175
Likes
18,292
Location
China
Problems that remain in E30.

I'm using two E30s, but this time I bought a third E30 from Amazon.jp. The purpose of purchase is to confirm the quality change depending on the production lot of E30.
For each serial number, the first two E30s are S / N 1911 ***** and the E30 that arrived this time is S / N 2008 *****. The USB firmware of the three E30s is the latest version Ver 1.08.

As a result of comparing three E30s, there was no difference in operation. There was no change in the following symptoms I have confirmed.

1. When playing a PCM 768kHz file, the playback sound is sometimes accompanied by intense noise. The frequency of occurrence is different for each of the three units.
(Expect the next USB firmware update)

2. When switching to a song with a different bit rate, the RCA output has a certain amount of pop noise at a low level, and if it is directly connected to a power amplifier that has no volume at the input, the noise may be a little worrisome.
(A more reliable mute operation is required.)
Pop sound is caused by DC offset. Latest revision has two capacitors to eliminate this and added protection against AC plug.
I have no idea about the first issue tho.
 

GDK

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 8, 2020
Messages
560
Likes
1,525
Location
Toronto
Pop sound is caused by DC offset. Latest revision has two capacitors to eliminate this and added protection against AC plug.
I have no idea about the first issue tho.
I’ve also had the noise issue (the first one) when upsampling to 768kHz via Roon.
 

JohnYang1997

Master Contributor
Technical Expert
Audio Company
Joined
Dec 28, 2018
Messages
7,175
Likes
18,292
Location
China
I’ve also had the noise issue (the first one) when upsampling to 768kHz via Roon.
I'll look into this. In the mean time, upsampling to 768kHz does nothing good. It's probably a way to eliminate pop sound but.
 

SaberCat

Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2020
Messages
20
Likes
22
Now i understand, thank you. The cable i bought is shielded. Hopefully it helps.

E30 it's connected into the same power strip as the SMSL, my E30 is also being powered by my old Samsung charger.

I just checked my PC - it's plugged right into the wall socket (direct) and not on the power-strip with the amplifier and E30.

These noise problems can be very challenging to resolve. The fact that you can remove the RCA connection between the E30 and the SMSL but still hear the noise as long as the cable remains attached to the amp does indicate to me at least that there are two problems most likely....firstly a horrible noisy USB connection radiating RF hash, probably from the USB cable rather than the E30 it's plugged into, and this is then being coupled into the SMSL by your poor quality unshielded RCA cable resulting in a buzz. It could also conceivably be coming from other nearby RF sources, like a fluorescent lamp or phone charger....but USB seems likely.

Having a high quality shielded RCA cable is a very good idea and may itself just fix this issue but the USB port might be extremely noisy, some PC's exhibit this issue and it may remain a problem even with a good RCA cable....but try the shielded RCA cable fix first for sure.

If the new RCA cable won't fix it then I have found that adding a separate USB hub (a powered one so it regenerates the USB signals) can significantly reduce PC noise issues; but also there can be huge differences between USB ports on the same PC ; for example a USB 2 port on the back of the PC which is soldered direct to the motherboard can be less noisier than a USB 2 or 3 one which is on the front panel (and thus internally connected via a flying cable in the case that runs over high speed data lines, RAM sticks and other big noise sources). Ports can also impact ground loop issues (though I don't think this is your problem here as ground loop noise would surely go away when you unplug the E30 from the SMSL, and you say the noise remains as long as the RCA cable remains attached to the amp, and the USB remains connected to the E30).

So in summary try a really good quality shielded cable first, and then if still got issues try different PC USB ports - then finally invest in an externally powered (not passive) USB 2 hub to see if that helps.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom