Topping L30 Headphone Amplifier Review

[JohnYang1997]

Well, the other poster was pointing out how providing the amplifier output at 2V would be helpful to consumers. And your justification was that most people don't use high gain. And now I pointed out that they in fact do use high gain output to make purchasing decisions.

But that's okay. Just realize that in recommendation threads across the internet, when people who don't understand the specs say, "Why won't I get 2300 mw into 32 ohms?" or "What do you mean the Atom has more output at 300 ohms?" The answer will invariably be "Because Toppings numbers are misleading. You won't ever achieve that with a standard 2V DAC."

If you feel like "misleading" is a term that's good for your brand image, that's up to you. But don't pretend like many consumers would not find the output numbers for a 2V DAC useful in making their purchasing decisions.

Oh here comes again with brand image. Like I stated, it's not my company. I don't like people come to me and saying I'll lose customers or my brand gets bad name. I don't care.
In terms of the 2V input thing. So what? I won't give a bread if people buy less products I designed. I give the option which is the best in my mind as I design it. Why would I not use higher gain which is 2 resistor change in total? Like I said in the very beginning I thought higher gain makes the high gain setting less usable. As requested I will use higher gain in future products. But as the state of the designing of L30 it's the preferred design. And in the prototyping stage of A90 we were still using +-6dB. I don't like high gain on my amps. If I were not designing for the public I would have only 0dB and -15dB.
Let them find out. I don't want to stop them. The amp is capable of delivering the stated power output that's the only thing I would care writing the specs. Input sensitivity is also clearly stated. It's even at 25V with low gain. Any one cared to read? Also Amir still have the 2V input power measurements on there. Feel free to take that as your criteria. I don't care, like at all. Amir's recommendation was based on measured performance, not with the power achievable with 3V input. But don't call me misleading, which is not true.

 

[raistlin65]

Oh here comes again with brand image. Like I stated, it's not my company. I don't like people come to me and saying I'll lose customers or my brand gets bad name. I don't care.
In terms of the 2V input thing. So what? I won't give a bread if people buy less products I designed. I give the option which is the best in my mind as I design it. Why would I not use higher gain which is 2 resistor change in total? Like I said in the very beginning I thought higher gain makes the high gain setting less usable. As requested I will use higher gain in future products. But as the state of the designing of L30 it's the preferred design. And in the prototyping stage of A90 we were still using +-6dB. I don't like high gain on my amps. If I were not designing for the public I would have only 0dB and -15dB.
Let them find out. I don't want to stop them. The amp is capable of delivering the stated power output that's the only thing I would care writing the specs. Input sensitivity is also clearly stated. It's even at 25V with low gain. Any one cared to read? Also Amir still have the 2V input power measurements on there. Feel free to take that as your criteria. I don't care, like at all. Amir's recommendation was based on measured performance, not with the power achievable with 3V input. But don't call me misleading, which is not true.

I did not call you misleading. I said the specs Topping provides can be misleading to people.

But good to know. You don't care about consumer perception. Enough said.

 

[solderdude]

John, I think the point they are trying to make is why design an amp that will be connected to 2V sources with max gain settings of +9dB.
In the most common use case (the E30) as well as most other RCA out DACs there would not be more than 6V needed.
That would be: 2.2W in 16 Ohm, 1.13W in 32 Ohm, 0.7W in 50 Ohm, and 0.12W in 300 Ohm.
Of course there is no misleading, the specs are clear. That doesn't mean it cannot be 'misleading' to folks expecting to reach higher levels (and even buying on these specs) only to find out they won't reach it.
This has nothing to do with the opinion that people don't need it.

With 9V out +13dB wouldn't have raised these (kind of valid) questions and on the front it could have said H-M-L gain
The extra 4dB in high gain probably wouldn't have lowered the SINAD much.
I understand that the design was lowest distortion, lowest noise and capable of driving almost anything.

 

[JohnYang1997]

I did not call you misleading. I said the specs Topping provides can be misleading to people.

But good to know. You don't care about consumer perception. Enough said.

I wrote those specs. So it's towards me. I care about people's response and feedback. But I don't care about if more or less people buy products I designed. I don't care about people's opinion towards topping as a brand but I care people's opinions towards my design as specifics.
I hate generalization. If you want to talk about the issue, we talk about it. Don't abstract to other levels which to me is bullying.

 

[JohnYang1997]

John, I think the point they are trying to make is why design an amp that will be connected to 2V sources with max gain settings of +9dB.
In the most common use case (the E30) as well as most other RCA out DACs there would not be more than 6V needed.
That would be: 2.2W in 16 Ohm, 1.13W in 32 Ohm, 0.7W in 50 Ohm, and 0.12W in 300 Ohm.
Of course there is no misleading, the specs are clear. That doesn't mean it cannot be 'misleading' to folks expecting to reach higher levels (and even buying on these specs) only to find out they won't reach it.
This has nothing to do with the opinion that people don't need it.

With 9V out +13dB wouldn't have raised these (kind of valid) questions and on the front it could have said H-M-L gain
The extra 4dB in high gain probably wouldn't have lowered the SINAD much.
I understand that the design was lowest distortion, lowest noise and capable of driving almost anything.

Yes. I get that. And that's why it will be implemented in the future design as that's clearly what people care more. The +9dB setting was because I like the high gain setting to be usable. It's not that +12dB to +14dB makes it completely not usable but I set the gain structures based off usability not power output. It's a completely different view point and design approach.
D30pro will have 5.2V output and A30pro will have +12dB gain at high gain. 820mW to 300Ohm power SE will be achieved.

 

[solderdude]

You made me grab my calculator... Balanced in/out for the A30Pro.

 

[JohnYang1997]

You made me grab my calculator... Balanced in/out for the A30Pro.

SE out that is. I designed the amp with Zeo's voice in my head: the 600ohm DT880s.....

 

[raif71]

My L30 just arrived today at a local shop and I bought it straight away after testing it (with d10s) over there. Here are some pictures of L30 with E30 on top of a coffee table (temporary place till I get a desk)

Using usb input, source is a Hiby R5

Side view to show how the power supply is connected. Using the Hexagon socket with usb ports. imho is adequate for the bulky and heavy power supply to remain stable

Overall, I'm quite happy with the performance. I especially like the -9db gain switch for iem usage.

 

[solderdude]

16V rms out single ended with XLR in.

Hoping people won't start using RCA to XLR conversion cables then... you may get the same remarks why it won't reach the specified output powers

 

[JohnYang1997]

My L30 just arrived today a local shop and I bought it straight away after testing it (with d10s) over there. Here are some pictures of L30 with E30 on top of a coffee table (temporary place till I get a desk)

View attachment 79130
Using usb input, source is a Hiby R5

View attachment 79131

Side view to show how the power supply is connected. Using the Hexagon socket with usb ports. imho is adequate for the bulky and heavy power supply to remain stable

Overall, I'm quite happy with the performance. I especially like the -9db gain switch for iem usage.

Thanks for sharing.

 

[zenki]

People said OS master vol. max, DAC volume max for best sound quality.
But is this true? or is it only for windows?

 

[JohnYang1997]

16V rms out single ended with XLR in.

Hoping people won't start using RCA to XLR conversion cables then... you may get the same remarks why it won't reach the specified output powers

For 2V in it will need stupid +18dB gain(higher than the low gain setting on the upcoming power amp). I'll do the same as A90 basically can reach it with XLR input. Should be the same with A30pro. 16V is 850mW right? It should get there. Goal is to have higher power than 789's BAL out with SE out.

 

[JohnYang1997]

People said OS master vol. max, DAC volume max for best sound quality.
But is this true? or is it only for windows?

You should get best system SNR that way. But if that's worth it is depending on your convenience and how much you hear. Usually you choose convenience.

 

[Veri]

D30pro will have 5.2V output and A30pro will have +12dB gain at high gain. 820mW to 300Ohm power SE will be achieved.

That's silly levels of power lol

 

[JohnYang1997]

That's silly levels of power lol

Yeah of course.

 

[raistlin65]

I wrote those specs. So it's towards me. I care about people's response and feedback. But I don't care about if more or less people buy products I designed. I don't care about people's opinion towards topping as a brand but I care people's opinions towards my design as specifics.
I hate generalization. If you want to talk about the issue, we talk about it. Don't abstract to other levels which to me is bullying.

Excuse me?

The marketing materials will be misleading to many consumers. That is a fact. It's not an abstraction. This I'm telling you as a retired technical communication specialist, both based on my own analysis, and as someone who has already seen it happen several times across various websites. And it will keep happening.

How manufacturer specifications may be misleading to consumers has long been a topic of conversation in audio circles. If you're taking this personally and can't talk about this objectively, then perhaps it would be best not to reply when this subject comes up.

 

[vhild§]

If I were a big boss at any of the electronic giants, I’d hijack these guys who design for Topping. They are so good.

 

[odyo]

I'm strongly considering buying this with the Topping E30 DAC. Quick question for those who own the combination. What is the best way to control the volume? With the E30 volume control or the knob on the L30? Which do you prefer and why? Thanks. Sorry if this is a newbie question. I'm buying my first pair of external DAC/headphone amp combo for my computer.

Everything will be maxed, E30 will be on dac mode, you will use only L30 knob.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Excuse me?

The marketing materials will be misleading to many consumers. That is a fact. It's not an abstraction. This I'm telling you as a retired technical communication specialist, both based on my own analysis, and as someone who has already seen it happen several times across various websites. And it will keep happening.

How manufacturer specifications may be misleading to consumers has long been a topic of conversation in audio circles. If you're taking this personally and can't talk about this objectively, then perhaps it would be best not to reply when this subject comes up.

Talking about company relation is taking towards my personal place. It is getting personal. I only want to discuss on technical issues. I have said quite a few times. Do not talk to me like I own the company. I am the designer. I also write specifications yes. I'll change higher gain in the future yes. But I do not accept this being misleading. This is extremely clear as input sensitivity clearly states so. Putting power output with 2V is optional suggestion. It's certainly not what I had to do. It's not like I put 10% THD power in there to wow the customers. It's real world tested with AP. And is repeated by Wolf. This is only about how you test an amplifier. This is definitely not something about misleading people. I even asked if the gain settings were good. This was merely a 2 resistors' choice. Why would I want to mislead customers for 2 resistors?

 

[odyo]

Excuse me?

The marketing materials will be misleading to many consumers. That is a fact. It's not an abstraction. This I'm telling you as a retired technical communication specialist, both based on my own analysis, and as someone who has already seen it happen several times across various websites. And it will keep happening.

How manufacturer specifications may be misleading to consumers has long been a topic of conversation in audio circles. If you're taking this personally and can't talk about this objectively, then perhaps it would be best not to reply when this subject comes up.

It's definitely misleading and i think it's intentional.