Well not really. I've got a relationship with Alex, he wasn't trying to BS me. You weren't part of the conversation, so you don't have any way of knowing. He has a return policy if you don't like his products. I don't think snake oil salesmen return your money if you don't like the product. And btw, I've informed him that my first impression is that his device didn't make any posititve difference in my setup."Well maybe" , Is the actual statement. That's one of the best snake-oil marketing spins I hear used over and over by these guys. (crooks IMHO).
A bunch of BS is what it is, Firedog.
But that is exactly what is repeated concerning these "magic boxes" over and over at CA, WBF, etc. Not only by unscrupulous marketers, but over and over by the Santa Claus believers. Honesty and integrity demand some voices of reason be raised, which is what most of the folks here are doing, not only on this site but cross-forums as you know. I'm Sal1950 here, there and everywhere. I've been banned at WBF for a couple of simple reasonable posts in support of Amirs measurements, threatened with banning at Head-Fi for the same. and censored-browbeatened at CA. They don't want to hear the truth so do their best to quiet anything in opposition to their illusionist, delusional beliefs
It's all fine and good to call it a "hobby" and infer the truth then doesn't matter, but it does. Outsiders, newbies, and the rest of the world deserve to know that all "audiophiles" aren't a bunch of lunatics.
I do then question that without any solid demonstrable evidence to oppose Amir's statements, why you come here in support of the subjective opinions being thrown out at CA?
Alex is more than welcome to come here personally and show us the error of our ways, but he can't because the evidence doesn't exist. He just does things like "ban" Amir from buying one in some vane and silly attempt to discredit the outcome of any real and honest measurements before they could even be done.
Will it make my system sound better? "Well maybe" is his answer.
How lame.
I don't have to be an audio engineer to know that real scientific testing can be very complex. Even experienced scientists get it wrong sometimes.How would you know this unless you are an audio scientist/engineer?
But yes, there are "books" and importantly, a number of published papers on how to test DACs. I have read them all and importantly since this is an interest of mine, both professionally and personally, I have the equipment and experience to put them to practice.
Importantly, I understand the architecture of the devices under test and their electronic design. This enables me to test the hypothesis they put forward, without any verification or data I might add, and use industry standard test and professional equipment to verify the same.
At the risk if being immodest, what I write is not some hobby work. I bought one of the first Audio Precision Analyzer while I was at Sony in early 1990s. At the time HP (now Agilent/Keysight) owned the measurement/instrument market for such devices. I was examining their measurement gear when I ran into the then new start up Audio Precision that had built and instrument that went miles farther than HP had. I was managing the design of a new "workstation" and we had a major audio subsystem and I wanted to make sure it performed. In that regard, I bought the first Audio Precision analyzer at Sony.
Fast forward to when I was working at Microsoft. To incentivize PC makers to build better quality audio subsystem, Microsoft created the WHQL program where minimum measured performance was required to get credit towards their Windows OEM license. My team managed WHQL and we worked hard to raise the bar in what was atrocious standards to something half defensible. So I purchased another Audio Precision Analyzer for the team. Indeed every PC OEM would purchase an Audio Precision analyzer to show conformance with WHQL standards.
I am also an electrical engineer, both as a hobbyist dating back to 1960s and professionally (Electrical Engineering degree in 1982). And I own this $25,000 instrument personally now.
So this is not some random data you are objecting to. My measurements have been published in magazines and reviewed by countless people in the industry and research. Not once has someone reached out to me/my editor saying the measurements are wrong.
Now, mistakes happen and I love to hear about them. But please don't just create doubt about my work with nary a reason to do so other than "there are books on scientific measurements." What are those books and how do they dispute my work?
For a decade also, my signal processing team at Microsoft produced technology that was verified in controlled listening and viewing tests prior to approval. Every time you buy a Blu-ray product or practically any product that plays audio sans apple that doesn't use/implement that technology. Those companies didn't come along because they liked Microsoft. They came along because we showed we knew what we were doing against competing solutions.
So whether it is objective measurements, technology solution or subjective testing, this is what I have done professionally and personally for decades.
I hesitated to write this but then yesterday in the process of researching another product I have under test, I land on this post of yours on CA forum:
View attachment 8072
Why do you say stuff like that? What knowledge do you personally have as expressed above that I don't know how to measure correctly?
I know you don't like the data but that should not rise to creating such doubt with no data of your own.
Let the information sink in please. The world is not as you have been led to believe. I can bring an army of researchers and audio scientists that would laugh at my attempt to even measure this device let alone believe its claims as you do. We are not all idiots as compared to a bunch of users who believe the techno-marketing statements of this company which they themselves have not bothered to verify.
Good grief
Instead of cribbing here, why don't you ask Uptone to post some meaningful data ?
Here comes Mr Firedog to save Uptone another day. Take a note at how he now spins around the 30 day return policy trying to convince others as soon as someone refuses to buy the ISO-R. Gotta say, Uptone has fed you very well
Well if firedog is working for Uptone he should get the sack
He's basically saying he has no clue whether it works or not but it's not expensive so you can try it..
WE know the fallibility of subjective listening conclusions of this kind so I'd recommend steering clear based on the evidence being presented here.
Give the $300 to a veterans charity instead.
Thanks, it's my only ambition here and tbh it's my job lol
)
You can call me 'Mr Thomas savage' though, Iv not felt important for some time and that would really helpThe expectation bias on anything over a CA is so strong that any sponsors at CA need not worry about returns. Its not happening. A handful of folks like here who would objectively return it the manufacturer don't loose their sleep over it. There are folks that believe (including myself) the end result is what matters the most and their are folks who believe subjective listening. Nobody is wrong but I did see a desperation of your repeated attempt to sell uptone products though it may not be your intention.
I don't need to. If a manufacturer doesn't by himself, there is no need to ask. Beside Amir has the results
Anyway these discussions are not what this forum is all about. If Amir's data is wrong then somebody will need to prove it with counter data. It is as simple as that, I think
Fair enough!
Amir,
