Affordable Accuracy Monitor Review

[GelbeMusik]

You could break those drivers in until the dawn of time and it’s not going to address the out of phase wiring. I love that you are giving Dennis Murphy crossover advice. Why don’t you offer some of your crossover designs or better yet, provide a set of speakers you have designed for Amir to measure? If you are such an expert, I believe people would really benefit from your knowledge and design prowess. I could use a laugh.

May I offer the laugh to U? The 'break in' was ironic, as emphasized by the color of the magic words. The mechanical damping was not. I wasn't as sure about the phase switch as You seem to be, though.

I'm actually not offering crossovers to You, because You wouldn't pay for it for good reason. I think of me as an expert in xo-design, because I'm humble. Everybody can do it, don't You?

Again, I doubt the payback with an attempt to enhance the performance of the BIC ( as I did some times back in this thread ). The horn ... . As stated, maybe digital is an option. For those who already own it, but never published measurements for some reasons. Now, the myth is busted?

 

[GelbeMusik]

However, to say that the BMR is widely distributed is the reason why widely distributed did not fit!
... but Dennis is "not the guy you are thinking of"!
If you truly know of drivers he could substitute, please suggest them.

Two problems, I think. I hope I'm o/k with Dennis still. I stopped to question his design. As I stated, the weighting of all possibilities comes down to a matter of taste in the end. That was not ironic. One sacred word here seems to be "preference rating". I couldn't agree more. There is no truth in high fidelity. It's about pleasure with something one likes for undebatable reasons, taste if You will. And Dennis was self-assured enough to explicate on that, the pro he is. I acknowledge his decisions, because, times, I wouldn't differ in the methodology. Too much choice, only very little ( quailified ) feedback, no standards, we know that all.

Of course Your customers buy speakers to listen to music. Who are You to spoil the experience with questioning--the speakers You just sold to them?!

First, You didn't get me right on the distribution thing. I wanted to convey, why obviously it isn't widely distributed. But 'nough of it.

Thank You for asking back.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

That is unfortunate. It does seem likely to me that there's something wrong, because I get tons of output in that region. As I said before, I'm using these things to run a 5.0 home theater and I think only people who live on AVS and worship huge subwoofers would ever notice that my system doesn't use them. I do apply a +3dB using my Yamaha AVR's crude EQ (and this tonal balance correction is part of why I think they could benefit from a mod) but I don't think that could account for what you're seeing.

To be honest I've never actually pointed my measurement mic at them because I didn't have a PC laptop to allow me to use REW away from my desktop PC-based two channel system. But I recently got one so maybe I'll take some sweeps today. They will necessarily be in-room rather than quasi-anechoic if we want to see the bass response of course.

Beyond that, I'm in Silver Spring and probably not far from you if you wanted to compare units...

Well, depending on the traffic backup on the 495 Twisties between Georgia Ave and Wisconsin Ave, we're probably 18 minutes apart. I did some more investigation today, and the drivers are definitely hooked up as intended--everything is connected with positive polarity. I reversed the mid and tweeter, and that produced a much bigger dip higher up. I measured the woofer alone by disconnecting the tabs between the two sets of input posts, and the woofer itself is spawning that big dip in the 200 - 500 Hz range. The low pass filter consists of a single inductor, so it's possible that a proper filter could deal with that better. There's no bracing in the cabinet, so all of that weight is coming from the woofer magnet and the tweeter horn assembly. What I think this monster needs is a little less sensitivity and a better woofer. Hopefully not red. I may monkey around a little, but I'm not sure there's a lot to be done without a transplant. I'll check to see whether that's covered by my government Blue Cross policy.

 

[JohnBooty]

@Dennis Murphy @Severian

I'll try my best to get some outdoor measurements in the couple of days to see if I can duplicate your findings. I'm curious if there have been production changes, if something was damaged in shipping, or if I've just been fooling myself into thinking this thing sounds decent. Maybe it's the latter after all.

I don't have OmniMic; only a UMIK-1 (with calibration file) and Room EQ Wizard. I do have a strong back so at least lifting it is not (too much of) a problem.

Here's my usual measurement setup. I've gotten decent results that seem to match others' measurements for the JBL 305, Micca RB42, and Pioneer BS22. But I've never measured a large speaker like the BIC; only 2-way bookshelves.

Any advice on how best to measure this beast? I figured I'll get it as far off the ground as feasible to reduce reflections. But I'm not sure where to even point the mic. Between the tweeter and the midrange? Should I do separate measurements for the woofer?

 

[Dennis Murphy]

@Dennis Murphy @Severian

I'll try my best to get some outdoor measurements in the couple of days to see if I can duplicate your findings. I'm curious if there have been production changes, if something was damaged in shipping, or if I've just been fooling myself into thinking this thing sounds decent. Maybe it's the latter after all.

I don't have OmniMic; only a UMIK-1 (with calibration file) and Room EQ Wizard. I do have a strong back so at least lifting it is not (too much of) a problem.

Here's my usual measurement setup. I've gotten decent results that seem to match others' measurements for the JBL 305, Micca RB42, and Pioneer BS22. But I've never measured a large speaker like the BIC; only 2-way bookshelves.

Any advice on how best to measure this beast? I figured I'll get it as far off the ground as feasible to reduce reflections. But I'm not sure where to even point the mic. Between the tweeter and the midrange? Should I do separate measurements for the woofer?

Looks like you should be able to get some high resolution plots with that rig. I made all of my measurements on the tweeter axis. I think that's where most people would end up listening, and the tweeter doesn't have very wide vertical dispersion. I just finished dicing and splicing wires so I could measure each driver individually to import into my design software. I've done that and set everything up, and even did some trial crossover runs. The tweeter measures very well, which is a relief. The midrange--not so much. in fact, it's truly awful. It has it's own integrated metal enclosure, and it measures and sounds like there's no damping inside. I've never heard or measured anything quite like it. I''m pretty sure I'll end up tossing it and replacing it with a similar, but better engineered unit that costs less than $10. So far I haven't found a way to keep the woofer's output up in the lower midrange. But I haven't spent much time on it. I'll be very interested to see your measurements.

 

[JohnBooty]

Thanks Dennis, I'll do that. I'll measure both the left and right speakers directly on tweeter axis.

I'll take some horizontal off-axis measurements as well, just for giggles. If my on-axis measurements are as dire as yours, perhaps off-axis measurements might shed some light on why suckers like me find these fun anyway.

One possible issue is that my speakers live in a garage that is not climate-controlled. Hopefully that hasn't degraded them too much.

I made all of my measurements on the tweeter axis. I think that's where most people would end up listening, and the tweeter doesn't have very wide vertical dispersion.

I'm just guessing, but I'd really suppose otherwise!

Given their size and "casual" audience I imagine most people would just leave them square to the wall.... FWIW I do not toe them in.

 

[Promit]

The BS22 are currently on sale for pocket change, $79 for the pair: https://www.newegg.com/pioneer-sp-bs22-lr/p/N82E16882117424
This would be a good time to buy in if anyone wants to mod em.

 

[stren]

The BS22 are currently on sale for pocket change, $79 for the pair: https://www.newegg.com/pioneer-sp-bs22-lr/p/N82E16882117424
This would be a good time to buy in if anyone wants to mod em.

Is there a parts list link or kit for the mods to buy anywhere? Is there a mod for the center channel also? Presumably the same tweeter but would it need a different xo?

Ah found the link to audiocircle earlier in the thread

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Is there a parts list link or kit for the mods to buy anywhere? Is there a mod for the center channel also? Presumably the same tweeter but would it need a different xo?

Ah found the link to audiocircle earlier in the thread

There's a mod for the center channel as well, but to the best of my knowledge it's not documented anywhere and it's kind of a pain because there's so little space inside to work. It does use the same Vifa tweeter, but the crossover is completely different.

 

[stren]

There's a mod for the center channel as well, but to the best of my knowledge it's not documented anywhere and it's kind of a pain because there's so little space inside to work. It does use the same Vifa tweeter, but the crossover is completely different.

Thanks Dennis

 

[JohnBooty]

@stren Are you having any luck viewing the BS22 mod instructions over at AudioCircle? https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=128301.0

I can see the text, but no images.

I wonder if perhaps I don't have sufficient account permissions... or if the image links are simply broken for everybody. I'm a registered user, but I don't have three approved posts yet.

 

[stren]

@stren Are you having any luck viewing the BS22 mod instructions over at AudioCircle? https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=128301.0

I can see the text, but no images.

I wonder if perhaps I don't have sufficient account permissions... or if the image links are simply broken for everybody. I'm a registered user, but I don't have three approved posts yet.

No I hadn't but assumed they would show up when I made an account.

 

[R Swerdlow]

Does this link help?

https://www.audiokarma.org/forums/i...-pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-diy-modifications.610820/

 

[stren]

Does this link help?

https://www.audiokarma.org/forums/i...-pioneer-sp-bs22-lr-diy-modifications.610820/

Yes it does thanks. Anyone have any recommended small dac/amps to use with these that are similar small budget wonders? The SMSL ad18 is tempting, particularly because it still has a sub output so you could combine these with the infinity sub on sale for a full 2.1 setup for 450.

 

[JohnBooty]

@R Swerdlow Thanks!

Yes it does thanks. Anyone have any recommended small dac/amps to use with these that are similar small budget wonders? The SMSL ad18 is tempting, particularly because it still has a sub output

The AD18 didn't measure that well here at ASR. That said, I've used a lot of similar-measuring chip amps. I think many would say that the "problems" in those measurements are not particularly audible. One thing I would say about the subwoofer outputs on these chip amps is that the main speakers will continue to run full-range. There is no crossover. Not a deal breaker but not ideal. I don't think there are many budget wonders in the amp world.

combine these with the infinity sub on sale for a full 2.1 setup for 450.

If you want a darn near impeccable setup for $450, consider waiting until the JBL 305's go on sale for $150/pair and team them up with the matching JBL 310S subwoofer. Has a built in 80hz high pass for the mains, which will allow those 305's to play a bit louder and cleaner. Will need to handle DAC, vol control, etc. upstream. If that sounds like too much hassle, the combo you initially proposed should be fine too, but I think nothing (assuming you are buying new and not going DIY) will beat the JBL combo.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

I hope you enjoy them. I wouldn't bother with the damping sheet. The stock cabinet is quite solid and I don't think you would get anything audible out of your investment. Let us know how they turn out.

 

[thebabyparrot]

So for those of who aren't technically inclined. Is there any alternative to the Affordable Accuracy (at it's price point) that is available to purchase?


@Dennis Murphy should seriously look into partnering with a website like DROP to get these made - and I'm sure it'll be a hit among the PC / Audiophile gamer community.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

So for those of who aren't technically inclined. Is there any alternative to the Affordable Accuracy (at it's price point) that is available to purchase?


@Dennis Murphy should seriously look into partnering with a website like DROP to get these made - and I'm sure it'll be a hit among the PC / Audiophile gamer community.

Uh--what's a DROP? LYFT I know. DROP, not so much.

 

[bigredrobotninja]

Uh--what's a DROP? LYFT I know. DROP, not so much.

www.drop.com

They negotiate with manufacturers for large group buys. When they announce a drop, members can commit to buy, and once the threshold number of commitments is reached Drop makes the purchase and distributes the product. They do collaborations and limited runs too -- I have a pair of Sennheiser HD6XX headphones that are basically less expensive HD650s made exclusively for Drop.

 

[thebabyparrot]

Uh--what's a DROP? LYFT I know. DROP, not so much.

Formerly MassDrop. The Website essentially thrives on taking ideas from creators, collaborating, and leveraging their relationships to get them down to as cheap as possible. Sennheiser, Focal, Fostext - etc. have all worked with them.

The other thing they have is a large Youtube / Influencer network. Pretty much - they can make a product an instant classic.


Anyway- sorry if the suggestion is out of line, I apologize Dennis.