Interesting.. They haves changed the Preamp Output specs as well. It used to be 1V nominal 5V max. Now it just says 1V nominal. Also, the AVR10 spec has been changed to 0.8V
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Arcam AV40 AV Processor Review
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
Interesting.. They haves changed the Preamp Output specs as well. It used to be 1V nominal 5V max. Now it just says 1V nominal. Also, the AVR10 spec has been changed to 0.8V
danielpugh
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Hi Amir,
I emailed arcam about your review to see if they had any comments, and they sent a rebuttal document. I emailed back to suggest that they should work with you like the Dell engineers did.
Do you have this document which goes through your measurements in detail?
I emailed arcam about your review to see if they had any comments, and they sent a rebuttal document. I emailed back to suggest that they should work with you like the Dell engineers did.
Do you have this document which goes through your measurements in detail?
markus
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Can you please post that "rebuttal" document? Kinda odd for Arcam to respond to Amir's measurements (which are public) in such a way.
danielpugh
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Here you go - I agree - they should get in touch (was wondering if maybe they have).
tecnogadget
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Well at least Arcam did work their asses off with this “rebuttal” doc.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #228
Yes. I wrote a complete rebuttal including new measurements but they completely ignored me. I repeatedly offered to speak to them on the phone but they refused that as well. Quite unprofessional all around.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #229
Odds of getting an AV40 is very low. Fortunately I have its sister product, JBL SDP-55 in for review so we will take a second look.
OP
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- #230
Interesting that after they claimed to meet all of their own specs, they would go and modify said specs.
Since Arcam's rebuttal is now in the public you should think about publishing your answer as well.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #232
I will think about it. I have to edit the doc as it is written with intent of it being private communication to them.
Hmmmm, bit of a mixed bag. A lot of testing at somewhat lower voltages which makes them not directly comparable, alot of testing with TOSLink rather than HDMI too which isn't so useful.
Seems their given specs are at 2V output which is not insensible to optimise for IMHO but is NOT a standard measurement point for XLR. Claim is 95dB at 4V and 100dB at 2V.
"The residual noise floors of the outputs gave an A-weighted dynamic range of about 106dB for the balanced outputs (ref 2V out) and 112dB for the unbalanced outputs (ref 1V)."
Arcam's document mentions ground isolation/ground loops causing chattering noises and how that is not a problem in normal usage. But if you have, for example, a HTPC and a power amp which both have grounded AC connections, won't you also have this problem? Or your source is a cable box that grounds thru the antenna cable.
danielpugh
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Having raised many support tickets for avr10 - they have a small support team that is struggling to cope with the issues of the new range. I think all sides acknowledge the hardware was clearly released way too early, (from my perspective) only recently becoming stable. This is only now becoming evident as their ticket response times return to normal. Combined with covid they have some sympathy from me, especially given that the features they are providing do represent an ambitious improvement over the last generation.
My hope is that if their workload/stress reduces they may be more approachable , and can potentially work in a more collegiate manner as did Denon. Certainly in day-to-day support tickets/emails they do come across as trying hard to help in difficult circumstances. If they started working with you then the focus could move to making the products and the review process better. To me it looks like room for both - arcam power amps have adjustable gain so you can use them with 4v (it looks like to me), but the same is not true for their processor. To me that says they need to adjust their design and testing scope. At the same time there seems to be a disparity re. Test equipment results which would be good to understand from both sides. All progress in understanding is good IMHO and I have benefitted and enjoyed reading these reviews!
My hope is that if their workload/stress reduces they may be more approachable , and can potentially work in a more collegiate manner as did Denon. Certainly in day-to-day support tickets/emails they do come across as trying hard to help in difficult circumstances. If they started working with you then the focus could move to making the products and the review process better. To me it looks like room for both - arcam power amps have adjustable gain so you can use them with 4v (it looks like to me), but the same is not true for their processor. To me that says they need to adjust their design and testing scope. At the same time there seems to be a disparity re. Test equipment results which would be good to understand from both sides. All progress in understanding is good IMHO and I have benefitted and enjoyed reading these reviews!
I still think there is a good chance this is the same HDMI config issue seen in the original X4700h review. The issues with the DAC performance look similar to the original Denon problems (Although not as extreme) and the better performance of the Centre/Surround channels is another big indicator. The analog difference though is a little different, this is the only area where I agree with Arcam on the measurement parameters as 2V is normal when using RCA analogue.
@amirm Would it be possible to do some basics tests on the SDP-55 with the unbalanced outputs and also on the XLR outputs with the HDMI config stereo downmix issue deliberately introuduced?
SpaceMonkey
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It seems that hdmi measurements should be tried with fiberoptic hdmi cables as well so that ground loops could be avoided. No wonder that most consumer devices favor toslink, simplest way to avoid ground noise, while the issue of jitter is largely a solved case these days.
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