Time Domain measurements?

[KSTR]

Can you explain a bit more about "energy storage"

I'm pretty sure that was colloquial speak for the pulse spreading effect of higher order allpasses vs lower order. The LR4 XO allpass is 4th order while the Bu3 and LR2 allpasses are 2nd order. Additionally, they show less ringing off-axis when acoustic summation falls apart.

 

[Andreas007]

Start a conversation with me and we will take it from there.

Any progress with that Nano speaker from Mr. Gerhard?

 

[Joachim Gerhard]

It is ready and got a very good test report in Audio Magazine in Germany

 

[Joachim Gerhard]

A picture

 

[amirm]

Any progress with that Nano speaker from Mr. Gerhard?

No, nothing came.

 

[Deleted member 2944]

I'm pretty sure that was colloquial speak for the pulse spreading effect of higher order allpasses vs lower order. The LR4 XO allpass is 4th order while the Bu3 and LR2 allpasses are 2nd order. Additionally, they show less ringing off-axis when acoustic summation falls apart.

An LR4 crossover would be equivalent to a 2nd-order all-pass, and a LR2 crossover equivalent to a 1st-order all-pass.

Dave.

 

[Joachim Gerhard]

Actually we are working on another speaker we would like to send to Amir.

 

[Joachim Gerhard]

We are slow but careful.

 

[KSTR]

An LR4 crossover would be equivalent to a 2nd-order all-pass, and a LR2 crossover equivalent to a 1st-order all-pass.

Thanks for the correction. I tend to get that wrong every single time...

 

[haraldo]

Actually we are working on another speaker we would like to send to Amir.

I just came across your ARA speaker and got pretty interested, so how is this better than your other and previous designs?
I assume this is your top of the line at the moment

Gunner Brekke, Norwegian audio guy was raving about performance of Beo EX, and I assume ARA is clearly better?
What benefits do you get here by going from the ribbon tweeter to beryllium?

Is it easier to hear from where the tiger comes?

 

[Joachim Gerhard]

I just came across your ARA speaker and got pretty interested, so how is this better than your other and previous designs?
I assume this is your top of the line at the moment

Gunner Brekke, Norwegian audio guy was raving about performance of Beo EX, and I assume ARA is clearly better?
What benefits do you get here by going from the ribbon tweeter to beryllium?

Is it easier to hear from where the tiger comes?

The ARA was designed to be a very low distortion speaker. The midranges have a series-parallel Filter so the upper midrange goes a bit higher in frequency. I did this because the lower midrange is some distance from the tweeter and I tried to avoid interference. I use a relatively low crossover frequency to the tweeter because that tweeter made by Blisma for us can handle that. The Beryllium Blisma is the lowest distortion tweeter I ever measured.

 

[haraldo]

The ARA was designed to be a very low distortion speaker. The midranges have a series-parallel Filter so the upper midrange goes a bit higher in frequency. I did this because the lower midrange is some distance from the tweeter and I tried to avoid interference. I use a relatively low crossover frequency to the tweeter because that tweeter made by Blisma for us can handle that. The Beryllium Blisma is the lowest distortion tweeter I ever measured.

Is there any places I can listen to them?
Some special times at the moment, but I am in no rush and I am very keen to have a go at listening

if I go to Brilon, is it possible to audition?
Generally, I dislike about 99.3% of the speakers on the market.... If speakers can give me tears in the eyes listening to Kari Bemnes, then we are getting somewhere....

My end goal though: I'd like to play "An der schönen blauen Donau" and "Radetzky March" at home at realistic level, full symphony orchestra, with no compression, very very few products I think that can manage... all I that I heard that are up to the task is out of my price league, even some €220.000 speakers are not getting this right (I am not mentioning any names here)

There is this guy over here (unfortunately he passed away) that had the Cerubin, which employed just a single midrange driver, but still from what I read in forums, Cerubin was beyond comprehension in .... everything... He also had a Kronos that I think you modified for him...

Is it possible to get close to Cerubin without completely breaking the bank and in a package that is possible to fit into a flat and still be able to see the outside world?

 

[Joachim Gerhard]

When I play the ARA full steam in my 90qm listening room for 20 minutes I have problems to follow a conversation for half an hour. It is big but not a monster like the Cerubin. There has being a lot of progress in driver design the last 20 years not the least because of the KLIPPEL laser scanner I use. I think we have won around 10dB dynamic range in that time. That is a 3 fold improvement. You can visit me in Brilon any time to listen to it. I play a passive version and also a room and time corrected version with Accurate from Dr. Brüggemann. A friend near by has also a very good system with the ARA that is Bi-amped with a Trinov DSP. Another option is a full 3 way active, digital DSP version where we do the crossover, room and time EQ in the digital domain. That is as close to the sound of natural instruments and voices in good acoustics as humanly possible at the moment. The result is stunning and very true to the source at the same time.
compared with that the Cerubin and the Kronos are child’s play, as good as they where at their time in 1997 an 2003.
I do not know if I can mention prices here but the ARA costs from 28.000,-€ a pair. High Gloss lacquering costs a Premium.

 

[thewas]

It is ready and got a very good test report in Audio Magazine in Germany

Here is the review as PDF https://joachim-gerhard-collection.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/JGC-Nano.pdf
Is it 2 or 2,5 way?

 

[Joachim Gerhard]

It is a 2 way. The woofers are in parallel.

 

[Joachim Gerhard]

Unfortunately they did not publish the waterfall that looks very clean. One reason is the very simple crossover that gives a quite linear response nevertheless.

 

[haraldo]

Funny that you should mention the Trinnov because I'd also really like to go that way, FULL-ON .... I discussed with the Trinnov guys, it seems to be a pretty popular use case to use the multi channel altitude to drive a fully active setup... there are some crazy Norwegians here who ripped out the crossovers of their hi-end speakers and now run them fully active served by Trinnov Altitude-16 or Altitude-32, they couldn't be happier.

I had a plan to drive to Breisach, where my brother has a place with the best wineries around there, Brilon is along the way... but this virus killed all the plans!

@Joachim, I really think I'd like to have a go and check out but I assume it must be when all these crazy things are over
Within a year the plan is to throw out my current Guarneri Evolution and replace with statement speakers, after I get the Trinnov inhouse

Which amplifiers are you currently using?

By the way, I never been very happy with loudspeakers featuring complex hi-order x-overs, Is it possibly the time smearing of the higer order x-overs that makes those speakers sound like crap?

I do have some Duntech's and Meadowlark's that feature 1st order xovers, I like them .... These small Duntech PCL-15 don't have bass, they can't play loud but are insanely magical, I'd really like that kind of magic in a statement speaker that does not have any constraints... I never fully found it, yet; there's seemingly ALWAYS a penalty with size...

Your work now is interesting!

 

[thewas]

It is a 2 way. The woofers are in parallel.

Thank you, would be interesting to know why you chose it over 2,5 way configuration (both configurations of course have their advantages and disadvantages).

 

[Joachim Gerhard]

Thank you, would be interesting to know why you chose it over 2,5 way configuration (both configurations of course have their advantages and disadvantages).

I like to make my crossovers as simple as I can and the small size of the drivers allowed a 2 way. Each element in the crossover stores energy. Now you will ask how we measure that. Maybe I can come back to that later.

 

[Joachim Gerhard]

Funny that you should mention the Trinnov because I'd also really like to go that way, FULL-ON .... I discussed with the Trinnov guys, it seems to be a pretty popular use case to use the multi channel altitude to drive a fully active setup... there are some crazy Norwegians here who ripped out the crossovers of their hi-end speakers and now run them fully active served by Trinnov Altitude-16 or Altitude-32, they couldn't be happier.

I had a plan to drive to Breisach, where my brother has a place with the best wineries around there, Brilon is along the way... but this virus killed all the plans!

@Joachim, I really think I'd like to have a go and check out but I assume it must be when all these crazy things are over
Within a year the plan is to throw out my current Guarneri Evolution and replace with statement speakers, after I get the Trinnov inhouse

Which amplifiers are you currently using?

By the way, I never been very happy with loudspeakers featuring complex hi-order x-overs, Is it possibly the time smearing of the higer order x-overs that makes those speakers sound like crap?

I do have some Duntech's and Meadowlark's that feature 1st order xovers, I like them .... These small Duntech PCL-15 don't have bass, they can't play loud but are insanely magical, I'd really like that kind of magic in a statement speaker that does not have any constraints... I never fully found it, yet; there's seemingly ALWAYS a penalty with size...

Your work now is interesting!

We use Dr. Brüggemanns UB Filters. They are a further development of the Horbach-Keele. They are steep but the result is optimal time domain behavior nevertheless.