MBL Pre-amp De-Thrones Benchmark?

[PierreV]

The situation at Stereophile drives me nuts because I know many more qualified people who could write for the magazine and produce something that moves the hobby and the industry in salutary directions.

I am in complete agreement with everything you said except this because I believe "Stereophile" is essentially a dying brand that hasn't been able to evolve with its era. The circulation of similar magazines has collapsed since 2000 and what remains of their past glory rests on people like us who are, statistically, also on our way out. And that is even without addressing the issues of deep changes in listening habits for the vast majority of the people. Active web sites (such as this one, but also quite a few others on the subjective side) and "social influencers" such as darko have more impact.
Even sites such as audiophile style have a better chance to be influential for the next 10 or so years than Stereophile IMHO. What Hi-Fi, for all its fundamental problems and its dwindling circulation, is more in phase with the current market trends and much more alive on the web.

I can almost smell decaying paper every time I visit Stereophile's site, and that isn't helped by their rehash of 30 years old articles they push when they run out of content. It is as if the strategy was to milk their decaying readers until they are gone for good, even in that gloomy context, those are worth milking since disposable income usually increases with age.

That being said, they still have a couple of excellent contributors, yes.

(note: being on the wrong side of the decaying curve myself, it should be clear I am more lucid than derogatory here, I don't mean to offend anyone)

 

[anmpr1]

...and that isn't helped by their rehash of 30 years old articles they push when they run out of content. It is as if the strategy was to milk their decaying readers until they are gone for good...

I'd offer a different take on the older reviews. They establish an historical base that one can use (if one did not live through the times) to judge audiofool progression (or lack thereof).

Second, there was a big difference between gear from the '60s-- a difference that is just not present with today's digital convergence (with the exception of loudspeakers where there still exists a big gulf in sonic quality). Back then sources were all analog; electrical variations in amplification/speaker interfaces were often problematic, having since been mostly resolved.

Third, the old reviews give rise to an obvious question: If the 1977 Schmidlapp XYZ 10000 preamp 'blew away' the previous top rated 1976 ZoneTronic ZYX 9000 preamp, and was close to perfect, a veritable 'straight wire with gain', how is it that audiofoolery has continued to make progress? I mean sonic progress. Or perhaps the 'high-end' audio salon/manufacturer/press game was always pretty much a 'work for marks', to use old-school wrestling promoter language.

As far as demographic tastes, and the general hi-fi market in the context of current economics? I don't understand how a lot of high-end outfits stay in business. But I guess the market is there or they wouldn't be.

Magazines? Slicks have to cater to whomever is buying the ads. Ads support magazines, not subs. My general impression is that subscription based hard copy magazines are a losing economic proposition. However it all is, the stuff you read about in Stereophile has about the same relation to audio as Architectural Digest has to architecture.

 

[cjfrbw]

Finally, has anyone stopped to ask why why a fifteen thousand dollar preamplifier needs the following: Titanium and Bronze Sort Kones, Sort Lifts; Audio Quest Niagra 5000 power conditioner & NRG Edison outlets & JitterBugs; Tweek Geek Dark Matter Stealth power conditioner with High Fidelity and Furutech options; GreenWave AC filter... and so on? Is it so bad out of the box that you need thousands of dollars of add-ons to make it work?

LOL! Nobody ever said religion is cheap. The priestly trappings and tokens add to the mystique! Alms and relics sellers maintain their arrays so that the audio hopeful never lose faith. Isn't the audio equipment rack an altar of sorts?

Say what you will, the audio market demands and requires these things. Any critic who is not on board with the cable flogging will soon be an un-read ex-critic. These things are produced by demand from the faithful, whether the critic is one of the faithful or not.

 

[CDMC]

Did I miss something? Most (that does not mean everybody) people today run a DAC right into their amplifier. There aren't many amps that a balanced DAC with 4v output will not drive to the max.

It becomes an issue with a passive when the source material is at too low of a level. You are correct that most amps will reach rated output (most being the operative word, depends on the specific gain), with between 1-2 volts for single ended and 2-4v for balanced. This of course assumes that your source material is recorded close to -0dbfs peak, which most is, but much is also not. Get a recording that is recorded at -6dbfs peak, or lower, and you can quickly run into a situation where you need the extra gain.

I have this exact situation. My main system uses Magnepans which are very low efficiency. I normally run my amp in passive at close to maximum volume. For some recordings, they are recorded at a low enough level that I have to put it into active mode with an extra 6db of gain to get an adequate level.

 

[CDMC]

LOL! The MBL in white and gold would look good in the $100 million three-story Manhattan penthouse of a famous person whose name cannot be mentioned here at ASR. (I don't think the owner is into audio, however, but he apparently loves gold.)

I hear that person is very into audio quality and uses cable news and playing back his own voice as the reference for good reproduction.

I will stop there, less this devolve into a political discussion.[/QUOTE]

 

[cjfrbw]

Do they use preamplifiers in houses of ill repute?

 

[FrantzM]

I do

Kal is level headed, direct, and reasonable. Worth reading. The fact that John Atkinson is the best thing going at the magazine is true, but is sort of a scary thought. Who would have ever imagined that to be the case twenty years ago? I appreciate and value his work, although you have to 'read between the lines' with him.

I'm not sure how 'gifted' Harry was, but your point about 'entertainment' is definitely the case. For the most part the 'high-end' press (if you can call it 'press') exists for entertainment purposes. That, and as a marketing arm for manufacturers (this latter is the primary reason). There is nothing reality-based in most of the reviews. A mumbo-jumbo of words that make no sense when you try and parse them coherently.

Agreed with your point on Kal. He is a lone exception. As for JA.. I believe Diplomacy might have been his calling...

The idea of the High End press as an innocuous, "for entertainment purposes" entity, is dangerous. The High End Audio Press relation with the High End Audio Industry is symbiotic. They created High End Audio. They maintain it. This press, sustained the High Audio mantra, bolstered its philosophy and shaped its tenets. " More money" thus "more better" came from the High End Audio press, At one point TAS was the Guiding Light but Stereophile, which always seemed to be better managed, is left standing. They have lost some of their patina because of the Internet and wealthy enthusiasts being able to acquire systems that are more expensive than that of the reviewers ... It is now routine for enthusiasts on the net to have millions dollars systems... while reviewers are left to make do with the scrapes of what manufacturers leave them ... But the reviewers master the audio review prose, they honed it for years, saying things that means whatever the reader wants it to be ...

thus the midrange bloom of the Xigoda Tube preamp has the efflorescence of chardonnay while the FET-based Slamobuf has the effervescence of a Good Champagne but not the bluntness of a Single Malt Wiskey

... or similar are normal-fare for High End Audio reviews ... They will end the review by saying that the Slamobuf preamp had to be the lesser since it cost considerably less: $5,000 vs $30,000 for the Xigoda .. then JA will find ways to explain to you that the rising THD of the Xigoda is of no-consequence since MF found the preamp sound ... "luminous" ...
What a pile of ...

 

[cjfrbw]

If you ever read the Audio Exotics web site, where the absurdly well heeled Asian audiophiles hang out, you will quickly learn that quirky and twitchy OC disorders and obsessions are considered virtues, if not required membership protocols, as are animistic projections onto audio components, resistors, capacitors, transformers, materials, tweeks etc.

They need high priests of their disorder to provide faith and healing in ever more expensive product to run through their systems. Maybe it's what holds them together in a disorderly world.

Mystique, brand naming and exclusivity are the frosting on the cake. The more money, the weirder and more diverse the religions and superstitions.

 

[CDMC]

If you ever read the Audio Exotics web site, where the absurdly well heeled Asian audiophiles hang out, you will quickly learn that quirky and twitchy OC disorders and obsessions are considered virtues, if not required membership protocols, as are animistic projections onto audio components, resistors, capacitors, transformers, materials, tweeks etc.

They need high priests of their disorder to provide faith and healing in ever more expensive product to run through their systems. Maybe it's what holds them together in a disorderly world.

Mystique, brand naming and exclusivity are the frosting on the cake. The more money, the weirder and more diverse the religions and superstitions.

Wow:

https://audioexotics.vanillacommuni...ee-a-magnificent-cable-series-by-ulrik-madsen

I have just realized, I don’t have the money to be a good subjectivist.

 

[cjfrbw]

Wow:

https://audioexotics.vanillacommuni...ee-a-magnificent-cable-series-by-ulrik-madsen

I have just realized, I don’t have the money to be a good subjectivist.

LOL! Count your blessings?

 

[Dialectic]

LOL! Count your blessings?

Before I saw the light, I came perilously close to dropping five figures on a vinyl setup.

 

[Purité Audio]

I recently spent £300 on a Technics SL10 it is great fun, and stylish!
Keith

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Kal is level headed, direct, and reasonable. Worth reading. The fact that John Atkinson is the best thing going at the magazine is true, but is sort of a scary thought. Who would have ever imagined that to be the case twenty years ago? I appreciate and value his work, although you have to 'read between the lines' with him.

I'm not sure how 'gifted' Harry was, but your point about 'entertainment' is definitely the case. For the most part the 'high-end' press (if you can call it 'press') exists for entertainment purposes. That, and as a marketing arm for manufacturers (this latter is the primary reason). There is nothing reality-based in most of the reviews. A mumbo-jumbo of words that make no sense when you try and parse them coherently.

I think what TAS and Stereophile try to do is something akin to a cross of a Platonic dialogue and the Phenomenological descriptive methodology of an Edmund Husserl to describe what are obviously subjective, secondary impressions created by the primary event (sound reproduction). And, of course, they do it poorly.

 

[Inner Space]

The idea of the High End press as an innocuous "for entertainment purposes" entity is dangerous. The High End Audio Press relation with the High End Audio Industry is symbiotic. They created High End Audio. They maintain it. This press, sustained the High Audio mantra, bolster its philosophy and shaped its tenets. " More money" thus "more better" came from the High End Audio press ...

I'm not sure about dangerous ... and there's a third element you don't mention - the readers and subscribers. No press, especially a non-vital hobby press, and especially today, can survive without extreme enthusiasm on the part of the readers. Therefore it's a joyous collaborative bubble, in which everyone to some extent suspends disbelief and has fun. My observation is that "More money = more better" comes from the buyers just as much as the sellers. Everyone kind of pre-agrees to believe it.

 

[CDMC]

Before I saw the light, I came perilously close to dropping five figures on a vinyl setup.

Funny, I have a guy coming to buy my three figure vinyl setup. He wants to get into vinyl and after 40 years, I am finally free of vinyl.

 

[MattHooper]

Funny, I have a guy coming to buy my three figure vinyl setup. He wants to get into vinyl and after 40 years, I am finally free of vinyl.

What took ya so long? I dumped vinyl in the late 80's! Went 30 years without it!

 

[CDMC]

What took ya so long? I dumped vinyl in the late 80's! Went 30 years without it!

My dad was a professional musician. It has taken me this long to get around to having someone burn his albums to digital. If not for that, I would have been out 20+ years ago.

 

[JeffS7444]

Are we overlooking the fact that enthusiasts of all kinds seek meaning in the things they surround themselves with; meaning which goes well beyond that which can be quantified?

From the world of luxury goods, I present some "statement" videos:
Cartier (wonder who they were trying to woo back at the time?)
Chanel

From the world of technology, if you've got a couple of hours to spare, there's the Apple's 2020 World Wide Developer's Conference keynote which ostensibly announces new products to the developer community, but it's very much a vision piece too.

And on a much more modest scale, MBL has also produced a video statement about themselves, or at least how they'd like to be perceived.

When emotional attachments are considered, is it any wonder if many audiophiles don't want to be "saved" by science?

 

[CDMC]

Are we overlooking the fact that enthusiasts of all kinds seek meaning in the things they surround themselves with; meaning which goes well beyond that which can be quantified?

From the world of luxury goods, I present some "statement" videos:
Cartier (wonder who they were trying to woo back at the time?)
Chanel

From the world of technology, if you've got a couple of hours to spare, there's the Apple's 2020 World Wide Developer's Conference keynote which ostensibly announces new products to the developer community, but it's very much a vision piece too.

And on a much more modest scale, MBL has also produced a video statement about themselves, or at least how they'd like to be perceived.

When emotional attachments are considered, is it any wonder if many audiophiles don't want to be "saved" by science?

I think the majority of the high end market is driven by perception, not value or data. This is regardless of the product. I’m an attorney and most people judge the quality of an attorney by bill rate and office location. I have my office in a very affluent area and charge an average rate for my services, given my 20 years of experience and quality of work. I have dealt with attorneys that charge twice what I do, that shouldn’t be allowed to practice given their work is so poor. I have also dealt with insurance defense attorneys that charge half my rate that I believe are better attorneys than I am. Ironically insurance defense attorneys are seen as the lowly attorneys in the legal world, but from what I have seen, consistently have among the best work product.

Regardless of the product or service, most expensive is not necessarily the best and the best value is usually somewhere in the midrange.

 

[anmpr1]

I do think that JV Serinus is a gifted subjective listener and communicator...

And his reputation precedes him. With fans back in 1980. From Stereo Review ...