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What headphone(s) do you own ?

Dealux

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As of recently, the HD800. They sound impressively clear but slightly sharp with oratory's EQ. They get eerily close to an ideal sound on headphones, i.e. a sound that is very close to speakers.
 

maverickronin

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I will try it again if I ever get the chance, but I can't imagine too many people loving the 820 and based on quite a bit of reading from those who own or have owned it, it seems to be a bit polarizing. What specifically do you enjoy so much about it and what other similarly appointed flagship closed back headphone do you have experience with? I just ask to get an idea of your frame of reference.

There's no other currently produced closed headphone that sounds as open as the HD820 and none I've heard which have a larger soundstage. Sennheiser also finally fixed the 800(S)'s treble peak with 820 as well. OTOH, the bass isn't as linear any more and could use some EQ.

The Stellia are more linear, and nearly as open sounding, but like the Utopia they sound like you're standing in the middle of a long hallway with excellent speakers set up on each end and I'm not sure if it's fixable with anything short of full convolution. I'd take the Clear or the Elegia over the Utopia or Stellia because of that.

I also like ZMF's and DCA's closed models as well.

IMO the ZMF Eikon is basically a Denon/Fostex DX000/TH-X00 done right. It has actual isolation, keeps all the bio-cellulose driver detail, and has less of it's signature "etch" in the treble. I haven't heard the closed Verite yet, but knowing Zach, it should be very nice as well.

I don't really have the budget for any of the above (Listening impressions above are written down at shows or meets) but I recently got a DCA Aeon 2 Closed myself. Linear in stock form, one of the cheaper closed headphones you can get that doesn't immediately sound closed, has decent sized soundstage, and is super comfortable. It's amazingly light for a closed back, and actually has cups and pads shaped like the human ears they are supposed to enclose. Why don't more headphones do this!?

The absolute best closed headphone is the Stax 4070, but it's complete unobtanium. It's been out of production for more than a decade (maybe almost two IDR...) and doesn't seem to sold well during that time. I think I've only ever seen one pop up on ebay in 6 or 7 years of Stax saved searches.
 

Jimbob54

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Yes, I owned one of the very first HE560s with the SMC connector purchased from Razor Dog Audio. I drove my HE560 from a custom speaker tap cable and used an integrated amp that is stable delivering 300watts into 4ohms and there wasn't a hint of anything out of whack. Absolutely loved the HE560. I have since owned the HE400i and still own the Edition X V2 and I have NEVER had a single issue at all, nada problem.

Is SMC the screw in nightmare connector? I have a pair! They do need a bit of juice, dont they ?
 

A Surfer

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Is SMC the screw in nightmare connector? I have a pair! They do need a bit of juice, dont they ?
Yes that is the connector. As much as they are a pain in the ass, they are robust for sure. Sadly I sold my HE560 something that I regret, and absolutely they needed juice. I actually had a speaker tap cable made by Trevor at Norne Audio so that I could drive the HE560 directly from the speaker terminals of my NAD M3 integrated which provides plenty of rock solid power.
 

Gomjab

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What's your budget?

If you can spring for them the HD820's are probably the best closed 'phones still in production.

I’ve heard mixed reviews on the HD820’s. I would need to do some serious listening and comparison to my HD800s before spending that much.

I’m looking at Neumann NDH20‘s as an option. The closed back would be for use at work or listening in bed when my wife is sleeping so doesn’t necessarily need to be absolute top tier. Now if the HD820 is an upgrade to the HD800s then that’s a different scenario.
 
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solderdude

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The HD820 measures like crap. I listened to it as well and, while not perfect, I too heard it as a better bass extended HD800s with even better treble.
Would I buy it ? Nope.

The Neumann NDH20 (its a Sennheiser actually) is a relatively warm/laid-back headphone with small but not unpleasant bass boost.
It's a headphone that one cannot do/check a final mix on, at least not without EQ and is lacking in the 'presence'/'clarity' area.
Great for listening to run of the mill popmusic. That kind of music sounds 'full' and not 'bright' on it.
 

maverickronin

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I’m looking at Neumann NDH20‘s as an option.

That's one I haven't had a chance to hear yet.

Now if the HD820 is an upgrade to the HD800s then that’s a different scenario.

Closed headphones are pretty much always a downgrade. Getting rid of the 6kHz treble peak is really the only thing that's an improvement as the rest of the frequency response is kinda wonky. There are plenty of other closed headphones with more linear FR, but there's almost nothing else that sounds as open and nothing at all with a larger soundstage.

The closed back would be for use at work or listening in bed when my wife is sleeping so doesn’t necessarily need to be absolute top tier.

An Aeon (2) Closed or Elegia are good places to start. That Neumann is worth looking into too since it's basically the only hifi(ish) oriented Sennheiser between the 569/598CS and the 820. (No, the 630VB it shares parts with does not count.)
 

Beershaun

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@A Surfer Thanks for the suggestion on ditching the Sony app and using the Onkyo player app for the EQ. It's really capable and you were right about the Sony app. I tried your settings with it and like it. If you have a chance to post a screenshot that would be excellent.

@amirm has been posting his eq settings to dial in the various speakers he measures to dial them in as close to the reference line as he can. I think that's a super valuable resource for people. If the same could be applied for headphones to help people get the best out of them. If there are measurements available for headphones then community members could also post up their eq settings.
 

Canuck57

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Chuu

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My stable rotates, but the HD600 has been going strong for 20 years and will never leave the collection. I prefer it over the HD650. I am very tempted to pick up a second pair just in case if the rumors are true the HD600/HD650 are going to be discontinued. Considering the two times I had to warranty it they just sent me a new pair, I'm scared that at some point in the future I'll send in a HD600 and get a HD660s back.

The other current members basically are what I considered essential the last time I got rid of a bunch of gear. They are a Grado SR-125 circa early 2000s, MDR-V6 circa late 90s, an ATH-M50 from circa 2008 (supposedly the drivers have changed since then), and an Ebony Fostex TH-X00. All have a very specific purpose in the collection and are unlikely to ever leave barring a strict upgrade.

I'll have a Sundara on order as soon as I finalize a new amp/dac purchase this week. I am also interested in several "Summet-Fi" headphones but there is zero chance I'm going to be dropping more than $1K on a pair unless I can compare a bunch of them together at a meet.
 
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A Surfer

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@A Surfer Thanks for the suggestion on ditching the Sony app and using the Onkyo player app for the EQ. It's really capable and you were right about the Sony app. I tried your settings with it and like it. If you have a chance to post a screenshot that would be excellent.

@amirm has been posting his eq settings to dial in the various speakers he measures to dial them in as close to the reference line as he can. I think that's a super valuable resource for people. If the same could be applied for headphones to help people get the best out of them. If there are measurements available for headphones then community members could also post up their eq settings.
I will try to, but life is crazy. But essentially Sony cooked the bass from about 50Hz through 100Hz. I start to adjust in the middle so that I can attenuate the lowest frequencies without killing the sub bass. Sub bass is typically not so present that even if emphasized a touch it won't really do much so I tend not to worry about it. However, bass from around 40Hz through 125Hz is very impactful and typically overcooked in consumer tunings.

I want a cut around 80Hz that is equally and smoothly tapered between say 50Hz and 125Hz, so if overall in that region I remove about 4db from the Sony it really liberates the other frequencies. We all hear a little differently so you need to adjust it to your ears, but just play around and you will dial it in. The Onkyo app is nice and the EQ settings hold even over LDAC so not limited like the Sony app.
 

KeithPhantom

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I think the Classics have a 10kHz dip according to Oratory1990. Are you using pre-Fazor? Anyway, if they’re not comfortable that settles it.
Well, I am actually using my LCD-2 Fazor and I have tried the Classics and the pre-Fazor. All of them sound weird, being the Fazor one the closest to my ears you can get to neutrality. Measurement-wise, I think they are an improved HD 600 in terms of distortion mainly, and they seem to be better behaved across the board.
 

Theriverlethe

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Well, I am actually using my LCD-2 Fazor and I have tried the Classics and the pre-Fazor. All of them sound weird, being the Fazor one the closest to my ears you can get to neutrality. Measurement-wise, I think they are an improved HD 600 in terms of distortion mainly, and they seem to be better behaved across the board.

I wouldn’t use them without at least the Reveal plugin EQ preset. The drivers handle quite a bit of EQ without a problem.
 

KeithPhantom

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I wouldn’t use them without at least the Reveal plugin EQ preset. The drivers handle quite a bit of EQ without a problem.
Actually the Fazored version already measures well without EQ (unlike my HD 800 which needs an obligatory EQ to be listenable). I like them without EQ though.
 

Dealux

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Actually the Fazored version already measures well without EQ (unlike my HD 800 which needs an obligatory EQ to be listenable). I like them without EQ though.
It really doesn't. You might start to understand how flawed they are after a while. I've used mine for about 6 months and eventually sold them.

Even with EQ they suffer from a lack of clarity but they do have that warm timbre that persists with EQ that is somewhat pleasant but equally annoying. You can see in oratory's graph that they have a 1K bump and his profile addresses that but on my pair and on my ears, that wasn't just a mere bump. It was a very annoying ringing peak that you essentially more or less start to notice in everything that you listen to. Vocals in particular have a weird warmth to them that other headphones don't have, yes, even with EQ. That peak can't really be EQ-ed out properly for some reason and it makes voices (when female singers sing very loud for instance) or pianos sound resonant (i.e. you can literally hear your ears ring at that frequency).

The HD800 has slightly worse bass perhaps in terms of distortion but the impact is actually quite good, maybe even better in many instances (more dynamic). The LCD-2 seems punchier a lot of the time because it has that thick bass but it lacks clarity compared to the HD800. With the LCD-2 it feels like everything is going through a weird warmth filter (perhaps the thick pads) that muddies the sound from top to bottom. When you actually listen to the HD800 with oratory's EQ (though I recommend a more conservative bass shelf) there is a stark difference in terms of clarity compared to the LCD-2. It feels like instruments and voices are physically there (i.e. clear) as opposed to the muddy sound of the LCD-2.

It's a shame because I think the LCD-2 might actually be the more capable driver overall. It just suffers tremendously from tuning problems.
 

KeithPhantom

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It really doesn't. You might start to understand how flawed they are after a while. I've used mine for about 6 months and eventually sold them.

Even with EQ they suffer from a lack of clarity but they do have that warm timbre that persists with EQ that is somewhat pleasant but equally annoying. You can see in oratory's graph that they have a 1K bump and his profile addresses that but on my pair and on my ears, that wasn't just a mere bump. It was a very annoying ringing peak that you essentially more or less start to notice in everything that you listen to. Vocals in particular have a weird warmth to them that other headphones don't have, yes, even with EQ. That peak can't really be EQ-ed out properly for some reason and it makes voices (when female singers sing very loud for instance) or pianos sound resonant (i.e. you can literally hear your ears ring at that frequency).

The HD800 has slightly worse bass perhaps in terms of distortion but the impact is actually quite good, maybe even better in many instances (more dynamic). The LCD-2 seems punchier a lot of the time because it has that thick bass but it lacks clarity compared to the HD800. With the LCD-2 it feels like everything is going through a weird warmth filter (perhaps the thick pads) that muddies the sound from top to bottom. When you actually listen to the HD800 with oratory's EQ (though I recommend a more conservative bass shelf) there is a stark difference in terms of clarity compared to the LCD-2. It feels like instruments and voices are physically there (i.e. clear) as opposed to the muddy sound of the LCD-2.

It's a shame because I think the LCD-2 might actually be the more capable driver overall. It just suffers tremendously from tuning problems.
Politely, I do not agree with you. Let's address both measurements you brought up with actual graphs (thanks to Solderdude and DIY Audio Heaven for providing the measurements):

FR:

HD 800:
hd800-fr-30k.png

LCD-2 Fazor:
fr-lcd2f.png


There are similarities and differences between both headphones, a dip around 1 to 4 kHz (ear resonance gains and angled drivers will compensate for this). They differ in the amount of bass and how the drivers handle the treble. The LCD-2 are just a few dB down around the treble area after ear resonance compensation and the HD 800 are clearly hyped (almost +10 dB at 6 kHz) in the treble area.

Distortion:

HD 800:
dist-hd800l.png

LCD-2 Fazor:
dist-lcd2f-r.png


Actually, the distortion is not a huge difference between both drivers, but the HD 800 has ever-so-slightly better distortion than the LCD-2. Both drivers are pretty much even in this regard (notice distortion spikes for the HD 800 at 6 and ~11 kHz due to resonances).

CSD/Waterfalls:
HD 800:
csd-hd800.png

LCD-2 Fazor:
csd-lcd2f.png
 

Theriverlethe

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It really doesn't. You might start to understand how flawed they are after a while. I've used mine for about 6 months and eventually sold them.

Even with EQ they suffer from a lack of clarity but they do have that warm timbre that persists with EQ that is somewhat pleasant but equally annoying. You can see in oratory's graph that they have a 1K bump and his profile addresses that but on my pair and on my ears, that wasn't just a mere bump. It was a very annoying ringing peak that you essentially more or less start to notice in everything that you listen to. Vocals in particular have a weird warmth to them that other headphones don't have, yes, even with EQ. That peak can't really be EQ-ed out properly for some reason and it makes voices (when female singers sing very loud for instance) or pianos sound resonant (i.e. you can literally hear your ears ring at that frequency).

The HD800 has slightly worse bass perhaps in terms of distortion but the impact is actually quite good, maybe even better in many instances (more dynamic). The LCD-2 seems punchier a lot of the time because it has that thick bass but it lacks clarity compared to the HD800. With the LCD-2 it feels like everything is going through a weird warmth filter (perhaps the thick pads) that muddies the sound from top to bottom. When you actually listen to the HD800 with oratory's EQ (though I recommend a more conservative bass shelf) there is a stark difference in terms of clarity compared to the LCD-2. It feels like instruments and voices are physically there (i.e. clear) as opposed to the muddy sound of the LCD-2.

It's a shame because I think the LCD-2 might actually be the more capable driver overall. It just suffers tremendously from tuning problems.

Which version and year of LCD-2 were you using?
 
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A Surfer

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I owned the LCD2F and thought it was a very engaging sound signature. Perfect, nope, but for some people it may actually be perfect.
 

KeithPhantom

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I owned the LCD2F and thought it was a very engaging sound signature. Perfect, nope, but for some people it may actually be perfect.
As I said, they are good, but there are not perfect curve the encompasses everyone. They measure really well though.
 

Racheski

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First impressions of HD800s -
Holy balls - I did not understand what "imaging" and "separation" meant until I listened to an orchestra with these; however, some of the trumpets sounded a bit piercing/sharp/harsh?
Basically Solderdude's write up exactly articulates my initial feelings:
"...this one[HD800s] still is ‘overly’ trebly/bright and ‘hyper-detailed’ because of the ‘treble plateau’
Imaging and stereo separation is top notch. With this I mean placement of instruments in the sound field and the ability to perceive them ‘separate’ and ‘realistic’ is excellent.
This is the strong point of this headphone, along with wearing comfort.
For music, other than classical, the HD800(S) needs some EQ in the treble and the lower bass."
I'm assuming I can do this with Equalizer APO, but if someone could suggest exactly what EQ to apply that would be very helpful.
 
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