• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Revel M106 Bookshelf Speaker Review

Voo

Active Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2019
Messages
108
Likes
67
what really gets me excited about how x vs y speaker is how it images with depth and accuracy of a image...hifi shops usually dont have speakers setup so you can hear the image so many feet behind them...they have all the speakers semi close to a wall I suppose for more walking room. maybe its just a gimmick, but I really enjoy having the entire wall of sound 8 ft behind the speakers. focals or revels dont do this like magnepans do.
 

JustIntonation

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2018
Messages
480
Likes
293
Not surprising. Preference ratings don't show that "everyone prefers the higher rated speaker". They only show that "more people like the higher rated speaker". The reviewer is one of those who doesn't.
It's likely the listeners room.
I know from a lot of experience that waveguided designs often tend to sound dark in many rooms. I personally greatly prefer non waveguide designs with wide off-axis in a good sounding room. Non waveguide wide off-axis designs will also give a much larger soundstage where with a waveguide design the sound will often tend to be much more only inbetween the speakers.
It's one of the reasons I don't hold much value to the prefered off-axis slope coming from Harman / Toole research. It's obtained preference only holds for the rooms the testing was done in. So I think it's much more about the room than about personal preference of the reviewer.
Also in the case of Amir, I have a rough idea of his listening room and it doesn't suprise me at all he prefers the Harman like off-axis slope which you get with waveguides / horns.
 

phoenixdogfan

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 6, 2018
Messages
3,294
Likes
5,071
Location
Nashville
I wonder what the Beryllium version of this one gets you. Twice the price but they appear to be very similar.
Matter of fact I wonder what it gets you in any of the speakers in their respective lines. Hard for me to see, for example, how the F228be could have any measurable justifying its 2x price premium. especially as there seem to be many 208s offered at steep discounts.
 

Blumlein 88

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Messages
20,522
Likes
37,050
Indeed. Yet what I miss is exactly what I am getting in M106. If it is frequency response difference, we better damn try to find it as my impression of these two speakers is worlds apart.
Well in comparison the M106 looks like if you did the shelve down starting at 4500 hz that I've suggested for the Infinity. So maybe it is frequency response.
 
OP
amirm

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
44,368
Likes
234,386
Location
Seattle Area
Does the measurement for 50hz mean "Volume is raised until 96dB 50hz signal is produced" or something else?
No. I do the level calibration at 1 kHz. The level will be higher or lower for other frequencies. You can see the variations in this graph:

index.php
 

Chromatischism

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 5, 2020
Messages
4,765
Likes
3,703
It's likely the listeners room.
I know from a lot of experience that waveguided designs often tend to sound dark in many rooms. I personally greatly prefer non waveguide designs with wide off-axis in a good sounding room. Non waveguide wide off-axis designs will also give a much larger soundstage where with a waveguide design the sound will often tend to be much more only inbetween the speakers.
It's one of the reasons I don't hold much value to the prefered off-axis slope coming from Harman / Toole research. It's obtained preference only holds for the rooms the testing was done in. So I think it's much more about the room than about personal preference of the reviewer.
Also in the case of Amir, I have a rough idea of his listening room and it doesn't suprise me at all he prefers the Harman like off-axis slope which you get with waveguides / horns.
Waveguides are highly variable. There are good and bad ones, so I don't think it makes sense to make a general rule like this.

Examples: the JBL's don't sound dark and they use a waveguide. The Buchardt S400 produces a huge soundstage and it uses a waveguide.

Besides: Olive's research showed that the room doesn't change what speaker we prefer. A bad room makes speakers sound worse, and a good room makes speakers sound better. It's not like it will somehow make someone's favorite speaker sound better and not any of the others under test.
 

Senior NEET Engineer

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Jan 6, 2020
Messages
538
Likes
591
Location
San Diego
Waveguides are highly variable. There are good and bad ones, so I don't think it makes sense to make a general rule like this.

Examples: the JBL's don't sound dark and they use a waveguide. The Buchardt S400 produces a huge soundstage and it uses a waveguide.

Besides: Olive's research showed that the room doesn't change what speaker we prefer. A bad room makes speakers sound worse, and a good room makes speakers sound better. It's not like it will somehow make someone's favorite speaker sound better and not any of the others under test.

Did they test electrostatic speaker in hard floor living room?
 

Andreas007

Active Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2019
Messages
137
Likes
353
Location
Germany, Bavaria
Waveguides are highly variable. There are good and bad ones, so I don't think it makes sense to make a general rule like this.

Examples: the JBL's don't sound dark and they use a waveguide. The Buchardt S400 produces a huge soundstage and it uses a waveguide.

Besides: Olive's research showed that the room doesn't change what speaker we prefer. A bad room makes speakers sound worse, and a good room makes speakers sound better. It's not like it will somehow make someone's favorite speaker sound better and not any of the others under test.

I can remember (but I’m not completely sure) an interview with ME Geithain founder, Mr. Joachim Kiesler, that he is not a fan of waveguide systems because of their unnatural soundstage and short time reflections within the waveguide.
Some historical speakers of them seem to have had small “waveguides“, but their current line up is avoiding them completely.

ME Geithain has very high reputation in the pro business. In many German forums user often state that with ME Geithain their search for the right speaker was over.
I once heard a big system of theirs at High End Munich and I can follow such statements.

Unfortunately, their prices are quite high.
 

azzy_mazzy

Member
Joined
May 31, 2020
Messages
69
Likes
73
I can remember (but I’m not completely sure) an interview with ME Geithain founder, Mr. Joachim Kiesler, that he is not a fan of waveguide systems because of their unnatural soundstage and short time reflections within the waveguide.
Some historical speakers of them seem to have had small “waveguides“, but their current line up is avoiding them completely.

ME Geithain has very high reputation in the pro business. In many German forums user often state that with ME Geithain their search for the right speaker was over.
I once heard a big system of theirs at High End Munich and I can follow such statements.

Unfortunately, their prices are quite high.
what is "natural soundstage"?
 

jhaider

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 5, 2016
Messages
2,822
Likes
4,514
It's one of the reasons I don't hold much value to the prefered off-axis slope coming from Harman / Toole research. It's obtained preference only holds for the rooms the testing was done in..

That is not accurate. Their research shows relative preference rankings are the same in different rooms as well.
 

Andreas007

Active Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2019
Messages
137
Likes
353
Location
Germany, Bavaria
what is "natural soundstage"?

Actually, I don't know. I did not make that statement.

Moreover, we should not take every statement so literally or even make fun of it.
Or shall we now discuss the following statement?

The sound was so incredibly smooth and beautiful that I could not hit "next" on my player.
 
Last edited:

JustIntonation

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2018
Messages
480
Likes
293
Waveguides are highly variable. There are good and bad ones, so I don't think it makes sense to make a general rule like this.

Examples: the JBL's don't sound dark and they use a waveguide. The Buchardt S400 produces a huge soundstage and it uses a waveguide.

Besides: Olive's research showed that the room doesn't change what speaker we prefer. A bad room makes speakers sound worse, and a good room makes speakers sound better. It's not like it will somehow make someone's favorite speaker sound better and not any of the others under test.

Well I can't agree with that research at all. I know for a fact the room and placement changes to a great deal what speaker we prefer.
I will agree that a flat on-axis and smooth off-axis is preferred in just about all rooms. But the preferred directionality and the preferred off-axis slope does change depending on the room for sure.
A more directional speaker will give less room reflections and it's not hard to see why you'd prefer more room reflections in some rooms and less room reflections in other rooms, and how this changes the sound. And a speaker with more of an off-axis dropoff slope will have a different eq effect than a speaker with less off-axis dropoff slope. For instance Amir has commented several times how speakers with less off-axis dropoff slope sound bright to him in his room. I can tell you that the opposite is true too, that speakers with more off-axis dropoff slope will sound too dark in many other rooms.
For instance the JBL LSR305, or the Kali LP-6, or the Klein+hummel O300. I have personal experience with all of those and they all certainly do what I describe.
Of course not every waveguide/horn is equally deep, and it depends too on size and geometry of the tweeter diaphragm, but the whole way a waveguide / horn works is to simply "take SPL from the off-axis and boost the on-axis with it" (or at least that's one way of describing it).
 

JustIntonation

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 20, 2018
Messages
480
Likes
293
That is not accurate. Their research shows relative preference rankings are the same in different rooms as well.
Seriously, this cannot be good research. Think about it.
I can think of so many ways this will not hold true besides the one I allready gave about off-axis slope.

The only logic that holds true is that room - speaker INTERACTION is very important. The sound will always come from the sum of the room and the speaker. Some rooms will for instance sound darker due to furniture carpets cabinets etc and geometry, other rooms will sound brighter due to furniture and geometry and size, etc. Some reflections we can percieve as beneficiary, some (like for instance a nasty flutter echo, or many other types of reflections) we can perceive as bas for the music. Or how a certain placement can work for one speaker and that same placement doesn't work at all for some other speakers. Some speakers are specifically designed to be placed really close to the back wall (or even corner) while some speakers are designed to be placed far away from the front wall. Etc etc.
 
Last edited:

Andreas007

Active Member
Joined
Mar 11, 2019
Messages
137
Likes
353
Location
Germany, Bavaria
The one you hear in a jungle or a forest, I guess.

Yes, yes. Please spare me your sarcasm and nitpicking which aims for your sole amusement.
Please be so kind and elaborate how Revel is extracting emotion...:rolleyes:

Using the award-winning Performa3 F208 and M106 as the starting point, Revel's development team re-engineered virtually every component in order to extract the finest details, the highest levels of performance, and the most emotion possible.
 

Frank Dernie

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 24, 2016
Messages
6,445
Likes
15,780
Location
Oxfordshire
Not sure if I like beryllium yet though.
I am looking for a tweeter that has no or very minimal breakup
Beryllium is an outlier in specific stiffness for metals, along with Boron. Most metals have the same specific stiffness, for example steel, titanium and aluminium are 3:2:1 in both density and modulus so making a titanium dome the same weight as an aluminium dome is necessary to make it as stiff (not strictly true since stiffness is geometrically proportional to thickness cubed so the aluminium will be stiffer than the titanium due to being a bit thicker.
Beryllium OTOH is a special case and its specific stiffness is much higher than other metals.
So if you want a pistonic tweeter Beryllium is the best metal since I am not sure one could make a boron dome (boron is usually built up as fibres on a thin iron wire core.
 
Top Bottom