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I'd not ask this on any other forum....cables....

Sal1950

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Still I'm interested to know who uses what cables here. I am about as frustrated by the many cables and "sounds" available as I am by tweak voodoo products. Does everyone here use good pro audio cables or is there some other common thread or brand respected for honesty?

Nothing to see here of much interest. Not cables from "pro audio" sources. All are inexpensive cables that provide totally transparent signal delivery in their chosen position. Power cables are whatever came in the box.

Interconnects:
Monoprice Premium
Monster THX
SVS Soundpath

Digital Cables:
BlueJean's Toslink
Monoprice Certified Premium HDMI
Monoprice USB

Loudspeaker Cables:
Sky High 12g OFC Zip
 
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watchnerd

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All my cables are of pro audio provenance: Belden, Canare, and Mitsubishi.

I use Neutrik connectors where applicable.
 

DonH56

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Interconnects currently are mostly Pro-Co XLRs from Sweetwater Sound. I have also had a few other brands but didn't notice any sonic difference. RCA cables are a mix of no-name-came-in-the-box, Emotiva X-series (on sale, bought with an amp), some old Fulton, various other brands, and some homebrew cables chosen for excellent shielding and low capacitance. I have a variety of speaker cables around as well but currently using off-the-shelf powerline 10 AWG for my mains and some type of Monster cable ~11 AWG for surrounds and rears (dealer threw in a spool years ago; I used to have the sheet just for laughs but tossed it long ago).

By and large many years of DBTs and such (including secretly swapping cables to see if people noticed) have convinced me there is essentially no difference among cables that are adequate to do the job. Adequate means proper shielding for interconnects, low capacitance where required (phono, tube stages), and for XLRs the ability to lift ground at one end to break a ground loop. Speaker cables need to be large enough to do the job, which for me is a bit narrower than the typical loss charts. In addition to loss, many speaker designs assume a nearly-ideal voltage source driving them and so resistance (and to a lesser extent capacitance and inductance) can tweak the crossover slightly. Unless the wire is really undersized I have not measured significant changes, but switch from say 16 or 14 AWG to 12 or 10 AWG and you can measure the change in frequency response with speakers that have large impedance excursions (not uncommon). Usually a fraction of a dB, so not audible, but measurable.

I think day-to-day changes in my mood and physical state generally swamps such minor changes in the system. Time and again I have convinced myself I heard something different, only to discover that either I could tell no difference in subsequent trials or that the "new" sound I heard in the recording was there all along and I just happened to notice it since I was listening more closely.

There are cable designs, interconnect and speaker, that do filter or otherwise color the sound. I tend to avoid those.

FWIWFM - Don
 

amirm

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Still I'm interested to know who uses what cables here. I am about as frustrated by the many cables and "sounds" available as I am by tweak voodoo products. Does everyone here use good pro audio cables or is there some other common thread or brand respected for honesty?
First, your topic is just fine. We have nothing that is disallowed here other than perhaps what fashion Thomas subscribes to when dressing himself in the morning.

On cables, I ripped out my Transparent Reference balanced cables and replaced them with Mogami Gold as recommended by member Jinjuku. Heard no difference so they are left in there connecting my Reel to Reel to my pre-amp.

For speaker cables I have some fancy cable I got for free.

Rest of the interconnects are whatever I have on hand.

In general, objectivists like Belden and Canare cables. You can make your own or buy them from likes of Bluejean cable who terminate them.
 

amirm

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BTW, I am not a fan of monoprice. See this article and measurements within: http://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/when-12-gauge-wire-is-not-12-gauge.3/

Not in there are measurements of Monster cable and Transparent speaker cables that despite being much thicker than any cable in that article, also came up short. I think both would be 13 gauge or even smaller from memory. All the thickness is in the jacket/insulation rather than where it counts: the thickness of the conductor itself.

As I explain in there, for the length of wiring that is typically used in 2-channel systems, once you go to 12 gauge speaker wire, the effect on speaker impedance drops below threshold of audibility.
 

tomelex

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Thick enough speaker cables and short lengths. Interconnects, best shielded you can get, and shortest length and keep away from other cables of any type and cross at right angles, distance and cross at right angles. Basically goes for all cables and interconnects. As you get older, you lose HF hearing, and that's where differences can start to show up with interconnects. Yes, speaker cables and interconnects can and do sound different, but the nearer they are to each other in electrical specifications...forget about hearing differences.

I am using the same "monster cables" from 1980's and they have not tarnished or shown any signs of decay of the wires or the clear coating.....they were made damn good back then. Crimp terminals still in excellent condition. They were spec'd out to handle the current draw of an 8 ohn load with my 450 watts mono amp power.
 

Sal1950

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BTW, I am not a fan of monoprice. See this article and measurements within:
No doubt the Chinese are hedging the gauge rating and maybe the copper quality to measure such high DCR, not a great choice at any price. It's a case of emptor caveat when dealing with them.
On the other hand they do offer some pieces that are very high value. I'd find it interesting some time to have you measure their Premium RCA interconnects.
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=2864
The cable itself seems visually to be a good RG 59 and the RCA plugs are very nice. The fingers are thick to hold tension and in my gear are neither too weak or so tight you fear damaging the component. Of course the LCR will be the critical point?
Their Certified High Speed HDMI cables have proven themselves over and over on the AVS forum. Its become the SOP reply to anyone having HDMI handshake, etc; problems there, to get those cables and if the issue can be fixed with a cable, it is.
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15427
cent' anni
 

amirm

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Guys on AVS Forum recommend monoprice with no data. The measurements I made for speaker price was for that reason: someone insisting that people buy monoprice cables just because it is cheap.

The problem with them is that they are typical Chinese company. You never know who their supplier is today vs yesterday.
 

DonH56

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One of the reservations I have about Monster Cable is tha tone of the spools I have contain wire that has insulation about twice the thickness of the actual wire. I've seen that on other (cheaper) cables as well. Consumer Reports (I think) reported similar things for car battery jumper cables a few years ago -- some looked very thick but in fact the copper gauge was much smaller than it appeared.
 
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Murrayp

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Thanks all, for the guidance. Your experience parallels mine. Age and mood are certainly bigger factors than cables. Still there are certain things cables can carry or not (mids of course, but clear clean treble, tight / solid bass (assuming your kit will reproduce that)) and if something is missing, I don't experience the music with the same enjoyment. Generally though it's the silly priced esoteric stuff that fails on one or other aspects, while good pro audio cables seem to work fine. I'm quite enjoying the cables Nord Acoustics (UK) sell right now - nothing flash but they sound fine to me. Their Ncore amps are enjoyable too.
M
 

Speedskater

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What matters in cables?

Loudspeaker cables:
Low end-to-end resistance in respect to the loudspeaker frequency impedance curve.
In a few situations, total capacitance or loop inductance may be a factor.

RCA unbalanced interconnects:
A coax cable with a heavy braided shield.

XLR balanced interconnects:
A Shielded Twisted Pair (STP) with very symmetrical construction. Only the major bulk cable manufactures have the big expensive machines needed to make a good STP.
Note that unshielded or shielded Cat5 is now replacing STP is pro audio.
 

Nightlord

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Speaker cables: solid 2.5sq-mm electrical installation wire.

Interconnects... mix of assembled over the years (Isoda, VdH, Tara Labs, Harmonic Tech, bypacked, cheap from the radio store...)... to go to no-nonsens wire being soldered for application length when I have the time to do it. Leftovers a friend at Swedish Radio sent to a bunch of us when destined to be otherwise thrown away.

My general view of it is that you can make cables different, but you really can't make them any better for non-colored transmission.

( Digital cables have a tight spec to follow, not all do... much more careful there )
 

DonH56

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When I need complete (100%) shielding my cables have a foil layer. PITA to deal with when attaching connectors to cable, but better than braid alone. Only used (or useful) in a very high EMI/RFI environment. None of my current (audio) cables have a foil shield.
 

RayDunzl

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I wonder what cables members here have found acceptable?

Gee, I forgot interconnects...

Just out of curiosity, I made a line-level RCA interconnect with just a hot wire, no shield, no ground, no return. It worked between gear with the 3-prong plugs, but not so well with those with two-prong power (as expected).

As for digital - after I found both coax and optical worked when you got the cable close enough to the jack (not plugged in or even touching) I decided not to worry too much about those.

None of my current (audio) cables have a foil shield.

Yeah, you gotta cut corners somewhere to pay for those new speakers...
 

Speedskater

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Gee, I forgot interconnects...
Just out of curiosity, I made a line-level RCA interconnect with just a hot wire, no shield, no ground, no return. It worked between gear with the 3-prong plugs, but not so well with those with two-prong power (as expected).
Yeah, you gotta cut corners somewhere to pay for those new speakers...
The audio on any interconnect is both a Send and Return signal. In good coax interconnects, the Send goes down the center conductor and the Return comes back on the shield.
With your cable the Send goes down the center conductor and the Return starts at the chassis then thru the Safety Ground to the AC receptacles then back the other Safety Ground to the other chassis. Making a huge ground loop.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
So while some audiophiles worry about OFC copper or silver, stranded or solid, this insulation or that, one half of your audio signal is going thru the power cords.
 
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RayDunzl

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Looks to me like I was avoiding a ground loop by removing the redundant connection between the boxes, since both RCA jack "grounds" are connected to Earth.

But, no need to argue about it. I can be as idiotic in my direction as others are in theirs (mine is usually less expensive, though).
 

Blumlein 88

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Well Ray just made half of a good balanced cable. This is all he did.
 

Speedskater

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Parallel grounds are OK, like in a 7.1 system, it's the loop area that's the problem. All the cables from one area to another should follow the same path.
An expert suggested running a heavy wire (maybe 10AWG) from chassis to chassis along the same path as the interconnects.
 

Frank Dernie

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Music is an AC signal so surely there is no such thing as send and return, or directionality other than in respect to sound shielding practice?
 

Speedskater

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Music is an AC signal so surely there is no such thing as send and return, or directionality other than in respect to sound shielding practice?
Of course there is no directionality in AC signals. But we need labels for two signal terminals, Send & Return are common labels, so is Flow & Return. I like them better than Plus & Minus. I try to keep the word 'ground' out of most conversations, because it often causes confusion. The same labels should apply to both unbalanced and balanced circuits, do you have any label suggestions?

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
How about High & Low?
 
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