Don's New Revels in House: Salon2, Voice2, F206

[DonH56]

<Cross posted from AVS. Note Amir and I also exchanged notes and he was very helpful as usual. Switching from panels to conventional is quite a change and had me very nervous but so far I am a happy camper. No, not the one on the cliff...>

Finally got my new Revels set up and listening. I was very nervous that they would not provide the clean, immersive sound of my Maggies but I am very happy so far. Having surrounds and rears that play pretty deep is also a welcome new experience.

Unpacking was a pain. The surrounds and rears are glossy black. Revel does a great job with a fairly heavy plastic film that is a challenge to remove. By the second or third F206 my pleasure at how well they were protected had abated substantially as I tried to figure out the best way to pull yet another big swath of thick plastic wrap off the speakers. By the last one I had it down; a propane torch works nicely (OK, kidding, but it did cross my mind). I discovered peeling from top down worked pretty well. There were a few tiny pinheads of plastic that stuck here and there, blah. I left them; that way, if I ever sell them, I can say they are "still in the original plastic". I had also remembered by then why I never owned glossy black speakers, every fingerprint or bit of sweat (or drool) clearly shows. Again, engineers can always find a solution; I'm keeping the room dark.

I unpacked and set up the Salon2's myself as my son was busy and I wanted to hear them. It was easier than I thought in the sense that moving an elephant might also be easier than I think. The good news is that my sore back is keeping me up and listening long past my usual beddy-bye time.

They sound fantastic though I still have some tweaking to do.

Many thanks to @John Schuermann for staying in touch the past few months and then letting me know when some came up at a good price. And MANY thanks to Joel, who works for John, for loading everything up and helping deliver them to my place!

Did I mention they sound fantastic?

Yup, three big ol' grins!

FWIWFM - Don

p.s. Obligatory equipment list: Salon2 L/R, Voice2 center, F206 surrounds and rears, 4 x Rythmik F12 subwoofers. Emotiva XMC-1, XPA-5, XPA-2. Some $100 Sony BD player (need to buy a new SACD player since my Oppo died a couple of years ago). SONOS:Connect to access my music library (CDs etc. ripped to FLAC and stored on a NAS RAID system). Room is isolated with floating walls and ceiling, concrete (basement) floor, mini-split HVAC so no ducts to the rest of the house. Roughly a bazillion absorbers due to rather poor room dimensions (may add some diffusors; Joel made some nice ones using a design of Dr. Toole's for John and will make them for others so I may get on his list).

p.p.s. All my old Maggies, all seven of them, all boxed up fit in roughly the same volume as one Salon2 box. Forgot just how big conventional speakers can get...

 

[RayDunzl]

https://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/608revel/index.html (page 3)

"The Salon2s had a spatial precision that I normally associate only with my Quad ESL-989 electrostatic speakers."

There it is, the old compare to 'stats...

Looks like you're good.

 

[Ron Party]

Congrats!!!!! The Salon2s are amongst the finest speakers made. I hope, well... know, you will enjoy them for years to come.

 

[amirm]

Didn't know you went all out with the Voic2 and F208s for surround. You came from behind and past me with conviction!

Congratulations. Imagine going to dozens of shows and hearing hundreds of systems, and never feeling like you need to upgrade!

 

[Blumlein 88]

Don, have you given any thought to an Atmos system? What a waste to store those Maggies. Just mount them on the ceiling. Guarantee you'll have the oddest system on the block.

I think your biggest decision will be whether to go box and cone or panel for the God speaker overhead.

My F12s seem unnaturally good. I have given some considerable thought of late to upgrading them to the F206s and using the F12s for surround. So your rig will still be way ahead of mine. I definitely am envious.

 

[DonH56]

Thanks guys. It was nearly ten years ago that we finished the basement and media room and probably ten years before that since I had my main system running. I had a 5.1 Mirage system with OMD-5's and OmniSats, but didn't really like the little fronts, and the Mirage sub was a piece of... well, it was sub-optimal (pardon the pun!) I switched to my Infinity Alpha for L/C/R, with the 12" Infinity sub, then got my old MG-IIIa's out of storage and set them up. Forgot how much I missed them... I had the Alphas doing duty as surrounds for a bit before they went to the upstairs family room and returned the the OmniSats. It became clear that I needed a matching center, and needed better surrounds, so over the next few years I picked up a Magnepan CC3 and later four MC-1's. I also purchased a pair of Rythmik F12's.

The last few years I've worried how much longer my ca. 1988 MG-IIIa's would last. I evolved a short list of speakers to hear and managed to gather funds, but work has been insane (70 - 90 hour workweeks months on end) so no time, and expenses were through the roof (college and ill parents), thus time and again the funds and listening time evaporated. I really wanted to listen to the newer Maggies and some ESLs as well as the latest conventional models. Of course, the kind of high-end gear that used to be within reach, was unobtanium now so I had no plans for getting the top of any line (Magnepan 20's would not fit so would've been 3.7i's; I was also looking hard at Sanders ESLs, and for conventional mainly Revel and Salk).

This time the stars aligned. I had the funds and suddenly a dealer called and said Harman had blemished Salon2's being sold as A-stock, full warranty (I couldn't find the blemish without pictures the dealer provided), and he made me a great offer for a pair with a Voice2 (new). I decided to keep the MC-1's surrounds and rears since I was pretty tapped out and couldn't afford Gem2's (which I was told were a good match). Always wanted floorstanders after hearing how well they worked in a few systems but wasn't sure they'd fit my room or budget so decided to wait. At the last minute he said he also had four F206's (not F208's, the little brothers) at a similar discount. That was the day after an unexpected windfall arrived in the mail that essentially covered them (alas, a death benefit from my dad who recently passed away). I decided it was a sign and, with my wife's blessing, told the dealer to load everything up and drop it off.

I should mention that my wife was completely behind me and in fact a driving force. She remembered how I used to sit and listen to music, and encouraged me to get them before I retired, while we had the funds, and I could still hear (somewhat). It was scary jumping to conventional again especially since I had never heard the Salon2's, and only briefly heard some smaller models. I did discuss my concerns with the dealer who agreed to work with me if they did not pan out. But, my research indicated these were among the very best, so frankly my only real concern was whether they would provide the sort of sound I wanted. Turns out they are doing fine; they are large enough, and distortion is low enough, that the change was actually less than I expected. My room is (too) heavily treated so reflections are not an issue. The tweeter is surprisingly good, or maybe my ears have gotten so bad, but I don't miss the ribbon in my Maggies. The Salon2's fit the stereotype of being a "dynamic" speaker but image very cleanly while playing much deeper than my panels did. Finally tried a movie tonight and the F206's were everything I hoped for, providing good sound with an extra octave or so of bass over the MC-1's.

I have a lot of dialing-in to do yet, and am awaiting the stand for the Voice2, but so far I am happy and certainly have no regrets. I got a wonderful deal on a set of speakers that sound, well, wonderful. I attached a couple of pix so you get an idea what things look like. The Salon2's and Voice2 are mahogany and gorgeous. The F206's are glossy black; not my favorite since I am not the best housekeeper, but fine for surrounds and rears. The TV in front is an older 52" model; you can see (barely) one of the F206's at the rear. The others are out of sight in these shots. What's not out of sight is the mess of wires up front; the Salon2's aren't wide enough to hide it like my Maggies did!

 

[DonH56]

Don, have you given any thought to an Atmos system? What a waste to store those Maggies. Just mount them on the ceiling. Guarantee you'll have the oddest system on the block.

I think your biggest decision will be whether to go box and cone or panel for the God speaker overhead.

My F12s seem unnaturally good. I have given some considerable thought of late to upgrading them to the F206s and using the F12s for surround. So your rig will still be way ahead of mine. I definitely am envious.

Several people have asked about Atmos. I have no plans now, and my processor won't handle it, but who knows for the future. Since walls and ceiling are floating, I am loathe to put in more holes, and the ceiling treatments make it difficult to hang heights (not impossible). I've thought about mounting a pair of MC-1's horizontally (at an angle) on the wall/ceiling boundary above the surrounds but no immediate plans.

The Maggies will only be boxed for a few months. My previous system went to my older son who is sharing an apartment with a small bedroom he is using for games and movies. The Maggie system is slated to go to my younger son when he graduates in December and gets a job and place for them.

I listened to the F206's a bit on their own but meant to do more. Just got too excited, was able to take part of Friday off, and went for broke to get everything set up and running in one long burst. Still paying for it; body ain't twenty any more!

This is a dream system for me, much more than I expected to be able to afford, and as you can probably tell I'm pretty excited.

 

[DonH56]

https://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/608revel/index.html (page 3)

"The Salon2s had a spatial precision that I normally associate only with my Quad ESL-989 electrostatic speakers."

There it is, the old compare to 'stats...

Looks like you're good.

Yah, I'm surprised how well they compare to my Maggies, and a little (pleasantly) shocked.

 

[RayDunzl]

Beer Saturday has come and gone again, and a little cranked up Victor Wooten didn't disappoint.

I guess I can go another week without spending all my my lunch money.

My buddy said something like "And to think, that, at one time, I considered myself to be a professional bass player. Arrrrggghhhh!"

 

[Sal1950]

This is a dream system for me, much more than I expected to be able to afford, and as you can probably tell I'm pretty excited.

Congrat's Don. That is just an incredible system! I'm drooling all over the laptop.

 

[DonH56]

I need to pull the homebrew stand the TV is sitting on; the center used to be under it, but it puts the TV a little above eye level. I'd have to raise it ~5" to fit the Voice2 so instead removed the coffee table and will put the Voice2 on its stand when it arrives. That way I can drop the TV down; have to wait for some help as it's too big and unwieldy to try alone or even with one helper (my son). I plan to upgrade it to a slightly larger model but am waiting for the price on the HDR QLED to come down. My older son is more anxious than I as he gets the old TV. And pick up a new universal player to handle SACDs since my Oppo died a few years ago (I could get it repaired but decided to get a newer 4K model). That should be it for this system, at least for a while.

I may revisit room treatments since with the four subs I can better handle room modes with fewer absorbers but then again I'm too lazy to take them all down again. The Revels, like the Maggies before, provide plenty of ambiance for me without the room diffusing the image. The biggest issue I have is that the best place for the couch that doesn't block the door and is close enough to the TV is close to the center of the room right in a big fat null. I had it a little forward, now moved a bit back, so need to re-time the subs. If bass is lacking I'm not noticing, however, probably because I shifted the crossovers a little lower for the Salon2's and significantly lower for the center/surrounds/rears compared to my Maggies and let Dirac Live do its thing.

I'll try to take a few more pix panning the room when I get a chance.

Aside: I rarely post system pics but Amir encouraged me and I saw the posts in another thread exhorting AVS members to post and thought what the heck. Appreciate all the comments, guys, I'm still a bit shocked by all this. Two weeks ago I had put any plans for new speakers off another year for various reasons and then bam! Anything worth doing, is worth overdoing...

 

[Sal1950]

Aside: I rarely post system pics but Amir encouraged me and I saw the posts in another thread exhorting AVS members to post and thought what the heck.

Thank you for that, much appreciated!

 

[amirm]

Aside: I rarely post system pics but Amir encouraged me and I saw the posts in another thread exhorting AVS members to post and thought what the heck. Appreciate all the comments, guys, I'm still a bit shocked by all this. Two weeks ago I had put any plans for new speakers off another year for various reasons and then bam! Anything worth doing, is worth overdoing...

I thought your transition from flat panel speakers to dome would be of value to larger membership.

BTW, do you mind if I move this thread to Member area? I will put a permanent redirect here.

 

[Ron Party]

Don, I'm spending your money now, but I foresee a Datasat RS20i in your future

 

[DonH56]

I thought your transition from flat panel speakers to dome would be of value to larger membership.

I need to do more listening and testing but so far so good. I have had, and heard, good conventional speakers in the past so knew generally what to expect. I also knew I did not really like the little Mirages, and my memory is still tainted by a run of mid-line"mid-fi "box" speakers I had to demo and set up for friends over the years. Speakers are one of those areas where, at least in my limited experience, you do have to pay a bit to get good ones. Not $100k, but I have been sorely disappointed with a lot of the sub-$1k speakers I have heard (and some well over that, and of course there are some decent ones). I had planned to listen to B&W but have a friend with similar components and 803D's, did not think they outperformed the Revels, and their last round or two of price increases pushed them up there a bit. I do still plan to listen to some M2's; be easier now since I won't be tempted to buy.

In a bigger room with less treatment I think the difference would be more noticeable, mainly due to dome reflections and planar dipole back wave (which is damped in my setup). With all the treatment, I can take advantage of the Revel's off-axis response, something my Maggies do not have, to broaden the sweet spot and provide better sound across the listening area. It wasn't bad with the Maggies because I was close, but still the sweet spot was much narrower than now. Since I usually listen sitting down I am not missing the floor-to-ceiling'ish panels and resulting line-array response from a wide-area source. The Salon2's do not dominate the front aesthetically like the Maggies did, though the Salon2's are not small speakers. I suspect they have lower distortion than my Maggies, especially at higher volume. Should have run distortion plots from my Maggies before taking them down; oh, well.

BTW, do you mind if I move this thread to Member area? I will put a permanent redirect here.

Not at all, that's actually where I planned to put it! Brain fart, was thinking of speakers so put it in the wrong sub-forum, duh!

Don, I'm spending your money now, but I foresee a Datasat RS20i in your future

Thanks Ron but don't think so, and don't need help spending my money right now!

 

[c1ferrari]

Hi Don,

May I inquire which other speaker(s) you may have contemplated/auditioned prior to Revels?
Also, do you anticipate listening to 2-channel, i.e., stereo, audio?

Thanks.

 

[Fitzcaraldo215]

Don, I'm spending your money now, but I foresee a Datasat RS20i in your future

No, no. A Trinnov Altitude 32, if you please.

 

[DonH56]

Hi Don,

May I inquire which other speaker(s) you may have contemplated/auditioned prior to Revels?
Also, do you anticipate listening to 2-channel, i.e., stereo, audio?

Thanks.

I did very little auditioning; hard to do these days in my area (no stock of most I wanted to hear), and as mentioned earlier my life has been pretty rough the past couple of years with work and family health issues. However, I had a pretty good idea of what I wanted, bolstered (perhaps falsely) by my long-ago experience working with several dealers as tech and installer for high-end systems. I also did a lot of research and reading the past few years in anticipation. I don't think you can choose speakers by specs and reviews but it can help reduce the field. I wanted to try conventional again for various reasons. I expected to spend a lot more time auditioning but sometimes things just happen.

The short list:

• JBL M2 (probably not, too big, and too expensive, but I'd like to hear them, and a good horn is an impressive beast);
• Magnepan 3.7 (replacing my MG-IIIa's, pretty much an even swap);
• Magnepan 20.7 (too big but always wanted a pair);
• Salk Soundscape(online reviews and some interaction with James Salk and Dennis Murphy -- not that they'd know me! -- and impressive specs);
• Roger Sanders' 10d ESLs (he is only an hour or two away, and I would prefer them over most of the MLs I have heard; Soundlabs are hard to find and have gotten pricey); and,
• Revel Salon2, Studio, or F208 (mainly to hear; I figured F208's or maybe Studios would be the best I could hope for; looked to be about the best in conventional design)

Pretty eclectic list. This leaves off a lot of very great speakers, natch, but it is what I had determined were worth pursuing for me. I have always admired Martin Logan but have also always felt their fairly high crossover to the woofer hurt the imaging and integration. I met Roger Sanders decades ago (at a CES; he was in GA then) and followed him on and off since. I share a lot of his views on speakers and electronics. Magnepan was a given considering my long relationship with the company from owner and occasional work for dealers since ~1979. Not as quite as "fast" as ESLs but also to my ears blended better and covered their frequency range better (ESLs seem to have trouble in the very high end, not just due to the load, and some have boomy bass as the panels get "loose" and exhibit modes). I also had a long relationship with B&W though never owned a pair; I did have some in my system (on loan) for a while. Impressive but lost to my Maggies. Recent auditions of B&W and Focal left me thinking "nice speakers" but I was not "wowed" by them (except for the price) if that makes sense. I last heard Wilson for any time ages ago: they seemed out of my price range, and I felt other speakers were better values. And, the few I heard in the past few years did not seem to integrate the drivers real well to me -- the image shifted up and down too much with frequency. Not really enough time with them to say, not many around here that I know about. Monitor Audio was in the running at one point but I never heard them.

I like the combination of intense engineering and extensive listening tests that Revel performs. Not that others don't, but the name kept coming up, and everything I read drew me back to them. Their price, while expensive, was not stratospheric like so many these days. The biggest issue for me was whether to stay with panels or try conventional (dome or horn) speakers again. They both have their pros and cons but, at least after first impressions, Revel has created something special. We'll see after the honeymoon wears off, but my biggest concerns about their imaging, driver integration, and general sound compared to my Maggies have been laid to rest. I think the Salon2's size, driver complement, and focus on smooth driver integration is a big factor in that.

As for stereo listening, that's how I audition, it's how I first listened to the Salon2's, and was by far my biggest concern moving from panels to domes. I do not have my TT set up, and only have about 300 of the ~3000 LPs I once owned, but do own about 500 CDs plus a few SACDs. Although most of my listening now runs to TV and HT, stereo is where I was weaned and one of my goals recently is to return to more music listening. I have beefed my CD collection a bit in the past year and ripped them all to a NAS RAID system to make it easier to listen to what I want to hear in the time I have. Suffice to say that, if I only listened to HT, I would not feel the need to have something like the Salon2's in my system. Conversely, any speaker in my system must excel at music with HT a desirable extra. That said, I think this is the best surround system I have ever owned, and I am looking forward to checking out Kal's list of surround recordings.

Think I've written more here than since I joined! I'm an engineer, not a writer, and sometime musician and audiophile, so back to listening!

 

[Nightlord]

If I had a pair of Maggies left over... and a couple of rooms with a decent wall combining them, I've always wanted to know what they would sound like mounted in the wall between them... thus removing their normal bass cancellation...

 

[DonH56]

Well, have the Maggies, but not a wall I want to tear up... You are thinking of mounting them back-to-back, radiating into each room? Or literally flush to the wall with the back dampened by insulation (or not)? Mounting them in a wall, or just on a wall, increases the cancellation frequency due to SBIR, natch.