NAD 2200 Vintage Amplifier Review

[PeteL]

Somehow reading some measurements of these hyper expensive amp for pairing with hyper expensive passive speakers I have a feel that way down is super out of budget for some nice sound, seems like active monitors are a much cheaper for good measured performance?

For desktop or for a listening room?

 

[YSC]

For desktop or for a listening room?

Desktop in a 60 sq foot room, here in HK 90% of us live in flats the size of your bedroom in USA you know

 

[PeteL]

Desktop in a 60 sq foot room, here in HK 90% of us live in flats the size of your bedroom in USA you know

I believe there are great value options with both configurations, I see many passive speakers in this forum that measure well for relatively cheap. I was asking because yes for desktop listening There are many great options in the powered monitors that don't cost to much, if you don't need the power, nor the lowest octave. but 60 square foot really yes, don't go buy a 400w power amp. But really? it's 6 feet by 10 feet, so you litteraly can only fit a small desk and one chair. So yes, Nearfield listening to small monitors is your best bet. For larger rooms both config have value proposals depending your needs

 

[Mudjock]

This review makes me wonder how my Rotel RB-991 would fare.

 

[YSC]

I believe there are great value options with both configurations, I see many passive speakers in this forum that measure well for relatively cheap. I was asking because yes for desktop listening There are many great options in the powered monitors that don't cost to much, if you don't need the power, nor the lowest octave. but 60 square foot really yes, don't go buy a 400w power amp. But really? it's 6 feet by 10 feet, so you litteraly can only fit a small desk and one chair. So yes, Nearfield listening to small monitors is your best bet. For larger rooms both config have value proposals depending your needs

Yes, and having a room at all is already premium here costing like half 700k USD for a 2 bedroom apartment with total size of 400 sq ft. So my current listening is just using a kef x300a in very near field situation with my chair just touching the desk, and a headphone amp with a pair of Hifiman he500 headphone for better listening experience

 

[Francis Vaughan]

I doubt the "upgraded" amp has any substantive performance gains over the original. Capacitor upgrades are, well, difficult to quantify. Applying vendor upgrades doesn't count, it just brings the amplifier up to the latest spec. The only apparent real change is an op-amp - upgraded to a "higher slew rate". This may or may not make any difference. There is a lot of woo talked about op-amps that is not rooted in fact. Many people swap out 5532s for some newer chip, mostly without really understanding the issues.

But, critically, the amplifier's base design hasn't changed. The topology, PCB layout, intrinsic limitations of the active components. That is all the same. They dominate the performance beyond anything that a refurbishment will achieve.

Given the age of the amplifier, anyone purchasing one would want to perform the basic refurb anyway. So it makes sense to rank the tested amplifier. Testing an old amplifier with suspect aged components would not be realistic, and not useful to anyone contemplating purchasing one.

 

[restorer-john]

didn't the earlier 2100 have a "power envelope" ??

The 2100 (from their Monitor series) was a later amplifier, made from 1988 onwards. It was also only a 50wpc rated amplifier. This 2200 was their first and from 1984/5. It was a sizable success and ran until 1989.

(from my brochure scan)

They later renamed Power Tracker to Power Envelope on later 2200s.

 

[restorer-john]

This review makes me wonder how my Rotel RB-991 would fare.

The 991 is a great amplifier from Rotel.

Stereophile reviewed it here:

https://www.stereophile.com/content/rotel-rb-991-power-amplifier-measurements

@John Atkinson (Aug 3 1999) measured some pretty serious numbers from a $999 power amplifier...

 

[ENG]

Hello restorer-john, can you answer this:
What‘s the difference between NAD 2200 and NAD M22/M22.2 ?

 

[restorer-john]

What‘s the difference between NAD 2200 and NAD M22/M22.2

35 years.

Topology is completely different. The M22 is Hypex OEM NC400 Class D. The 2200 is a commutating rail through-hole dinosaur from the mid 1980s, but, as you can see, not only is it still working, it's repairable and not too bad looking for a NAD, and it still performs very well.

There's no way on earth the SMPS powered M22 will last 35 years. It's chock full of microcontrollers and SMD lead-free componentry. But, it is new and some people want that. I get it.

Again, it's a tough call. You either find a classic monster power amp from the past and throw some restoration dollars at it (not just some capacitor-jockey with a bag of parts and a plumber's soldering iron) and it will last another 35 years, or you get a shiny new modern amplifier and expect 5-10 years before total replacement. All we can hope is the tougher (!) new European regulations on repair-ability and parts will improve the situation which has been going downhill for decades.

I'd like to see young restorers down the track, still able to get parts and keeping some of these wonderful products from the past alive. I'll gladly donate all my parts and gear to some young whipper snapper when I can no longer read resistor color codes or my hand is too trembling to solder. Hopefully that is decades away...

 

[ENG]

35 years.

Topology is completely different. The M22 is Hypex OEM NC400 Class D. The 2200 is a commutating rail through-hole dinosaur from the mid 1980s, but, as you can see, not only is it still working, it's repairable and not too bad looking for a NAD, and it still performs very well.

There's no way on earth the SMPS powered M22 will last 35 years. It's chock full of microcontrollers and SMD lead-free componentry. But, it is new and some people want that. I get it.

Again, it's a tough call. You either find a classic monster power amp from the past and throw some restoration dollars at it (not just some capacitor-jockey with a bag of parts and a plumber's soldering iron) and it will last another 35 years, or you get a shiny new modern amplifier and expect 5-10 years before total replacement. All we can hope is the tougher (!) new European regulations on repair-ability and parts will improve the situation which has been going downhill for decades.

I'd like to see young restorers down the track, still able to get parts and keeping some of these wonderful products from the past alive. I'll gladly donate all my parts and gear to some young whipper snapper when I can no longer read resistor color codes or my hand is too trembling to solder. Hopefully that is decades away...

Thank you, I was just curious. I own a Hegel H390, H190 and H80. I hope a Hegel amplifier
one day will be measured here at ASR.

 

[Eetu]

I know there's people looking to find this amp after this review. Here's some NAD power amps that should be good alternatives to this model (if found in good condition): 216 THX (125W / 8Ω), C270 (120W / 8Ω), 214 (80W / 8Ω), 218 THX (200W / 8Ω).
These are models made between the 2200 and the C320BEE (both measured very well).

 

[CDMC]

Another example of Schiit Vidar being left behind in the dust by 30 y/o tech.

Hold on and lets make a fair comparison. I believe these were $500 new in 1985, which in 2020 dollars is $1191. For $689 dollars you can purchase a VTV Ncore 502 stereo amp, which measures better, but slightly less power (450 ch 8 ohms/500 4 ohms). $869 gets you a pascal amp (400 ch 8 ohms, 800 4 ohms). $959 gets you a purifi and $1329 a stereo hypex nc1200. These are a fairer comparison and to me are all better choices than the NAD (balanced outputs).

 

[maty]

Hold on and lets make a fair comparison. I believe these were $500 new in 1985, which in 2020 dollars is $1191. For $689 dollars you can purchase a VTV Ncore 502 stereo amp, which measures better, but slightly less power (450 ch 8 ohms/500 4 ohms). $869 gets you a pascal amp (400 ch 8 ohms, 800 4 ohms). $959 gets you a purifi and $1329 a stereo hypex nc1200. These are a fairer comparison and to me are all better choices than the NAD (balanced outputs).

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-of-purifi-1et400a-amplifier.7984/post-194605

Real world? Maybe a very good PA from Germany or Austria. Only € 579 at home, Spain.

PAS 2002PCA, with input CMRR > 90 dB

https://www.thomann.de/intl/pas_2002pca.htm

 

[carlob]

I have the service manual if anybody need it, I think the most common upgrade is to swap NJM2043 with perhaps LM4562

 

[Objectivist01]

Similarly the Rotel and harman power amps from that era used to sound very similar to the bad mentioned here. If measured we can see if they all measure similar too.

 

[Rocky Loudboa]

Could you please measure the NAD C356BEE amp?

 

[amirm]

Could you please measure the NAD C356BEE amp?

Sorry, I don't have one to measure.

There is another NAD here though, the C268 which I will be testing soon.

 

[Willem]

Of course, this makes me all the more curious how a classic design like the Quad 606-2/909 would measure. There are plenty of those still around in Europe, but I suppose not that many in the US. @restorer-john : and it is still completely restorable, of course.

 

[Objectivist01]

With aging, does the frequency response of the amp change too much? Approximately whats the logevity of caps and resistors? Do they last long when we keep them on all the time than switching ? If not used much how many years can we get out of caps before they drift the values? I know it varies with usage. But still..