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Old Formula 1 video. Nearly an hour long so only watch if you are interested in fairly historic F1. May be spoiled for some by me being in it

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Frank Dernie

Frank Dernie

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So are you in favour of big budget cuts Frank? It sounds like a very persuasive argument to go back to the days. (well you persuaded me anyway!).
I believe in the free market so not really.
The only equaliser I would favour would be an equal share of the revenue for all teams, rather than the graduated one which favours the already ahead. After that it is up to the team to get the money, as it always has been.
Colin Chapman was a clever engineer but his biggest skill was getting more money than anybody else, in the early cigarette sponsor days Lotus probably had a bigger budget than all the other teams together.
Having a good budget does not guarantee success but a small one guarantees failure.
 
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Frank Dernie

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One of the things that struck me watching the old doc was the bloke making bits of bodywork with a wooden mallet, I'm sure the modern races would be much better if all the bodywork had to be made by one bloke using just a wooden mallet.
Those were suspension parts!
The sheet metal workers were absolutely brilliant but carbon fibre finished them off. They ended up with just exhaust systems.
A lot of them went to the USA to work on NASCAR which was still using hand made steel parts.
 

Thomas savage

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Those were suspension parts!
The sheet metal workers were absolutely brilliant but carbon fibre finished them off. They ended up with just exhaust systems.
A lot of them went to the USA to work on NASCAR which was still using hand made steel parts.
That's one of the things I loved about that film A guy working metal, Hi-Tech but forged by hand.

It's just not the same now.. I'm 40 I'm probably too young to be this grumpy.
 

balletboy

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The two first order things are the shape and magnitude of the aero/rideheight map - the aero is spectacularly sensitive to small changes in the height of the car above the ground (down 1mm front ~0.1 seconds per lap if you can achieve it, or it was)
Plus the tyre temperature. Friction is super sensitive to temperature but the best grip is just before it starts to be destroyed so getting the tyre in the best temperature range for as much of the grip-limited time as possible without damaging them by overheating makes a B-I-G difference.

Downforce is over-rated.View attachment 64812
Piedmonte 15360.JPG
Piedmonte 15362.JPG
 
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Frank Dernie

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That's one of the things I loved about that film A guy working metal, Hi-Tech but forged by hand.

It's just not the same now.. I'm 40 I'm probably too young to be this grumpy.
I think it is very different now.
I was the first person to bring CAD into F1 but only used it for the engine cover initially. Now everything is drawn in CAD.
When I did the cooling system I could go down to the workshop, tell the bloke I knew was going to make it what I had in mind and discuss how he thought it would be best to make it so by the time my hand drawing was issued he knew what to expect, and had probably started making his jigs.
Nowadays it is all on the computer and the first time the guy who has to make it sees anything is the drawing or CAM file.
I preferred it when we were a bunch of skilled people trusting each other to know their craft.
 

balletboy

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I worked closely with Jonsey and we are still in touch.
I helped Michael Schumacher up to his first championship and he was incredibly fit. Most prior to him drivers are panting and knackered after a qualifying run, he could run the whole Grand Prix at qualifying level if necessary, he completely changed the game.
Yes they have to be outstanding athletes these days to keep up the performance under high loads and temperatures.
Some always were. I remember Jody Schekter, 1979 World Champion winning the world superstar championship where athletes from lots of sports competed in mainly athletic type competion.
http://www.thesuperstars.org/comp/81world.html

I seem to remember Alan Jones looking panting and knackered before he got in the car. He did win a world championship. Nothing like a good Aussie.
 

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Lovely cars with very little grip.
Jim Clark won two Grands Prix on the same set of tyres, nowadays 100km is about as far as one will go but with 3x the grip.

Didn't they trim them between races with a Stanley knife?

Over Christmas I watched an extraordinary film about Fangio, on Netflix I think, and the incredibly long endurance races he drove (in a Chevrolet) in South America for many years before going to Italy, some races were 10,000km at altitude, swamps, mostly dirt roads, no help from anyone and all the spare parts in the back of the car. Modern drivers are spoilt rotten.
 
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Frank Dernie

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Didn't they trim them between races with a Stanley knife?

Over Christmas I watched an extraordinary film about Fangio, on Netflix I think, and the incredibly long endurance races he drove (in a Chevrolet) in South America for many years before going to Italy, some races were 10,000km at altitude, swamps, mostly dirt roads, no help from anyone and all the spare parts in the back of the car. Modern drivers are spoilt rotten.
Indeed and Fangio didn't start racing until he was 29 either and was 40 when he won his first championship and 47 when he won his fifth!
 
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Frank Dernie

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Didn't they trim them between races with a Stanley knife?
Goodyear used to trim rubber off the outer edges at some races where the tyres were marginal on temperature. The edges on bias belted tyres are thicker so run hotter due to hysteresis and the shoulder would blister.
Blistering occurs when the oil in the rubber compound boils.
 

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Indeed and Fangio didn't start racing until he was 29 either and was 40 when he won his first championship and 47 when he won his fifth!
Maybe by the time he got to 40 + he focussed more on chasing the apex then he did on chasing tail
 

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Indeed and Fangio didn't start racing until he was 29 either and was 40 when he won his first championship and 47 when he won his fifth!

What came over as extraordinary was his ability to win in any car. I think he won the world championship for 4 different manufacturers?

I think there was one he lost because he agreed to do a race in the UK, missed his flight from London and had to drive to Monza non-stop, get in his car and drive a championship race with no sleep. (Or something like that.)
 

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Ferrari were too close that year to judge, probably flipped from one to the other depending on the development bits and how-close-to-legal tweaks.

I put the 2018 debacle entirely on Vettel. Too many errors.
 

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By the way I am a huge motorsort fan since my childhood, in particular F1. I don't like where F1 is going, we don't need another formula Indy.
Also I don't like the hybrid engines, I would go back to the V12 but sadly it's not possible.
 

balletboy

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By the way I am a huge motorsort fan since my childhood, in particular F1. I don't like where F1 is going, we don't need another formula Indy.
Also I don't like the hybrid engines, I would go back to the V12 but sadly it's not possible.

I seem to remember Mansell's Renault was about the most powerful F1 car. Probably wrong. Frank ... help!!!

So you won't be watching Formula E? (says an owner of a Nissan Leaf zero emission)
 
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Frank Dernie

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By the way I am a huge motorsort fan since my childhood, in particular F1. I don't like where F1 is going, we don't need another formula Indy.
Also I don't like the hybrid engines, I would go back to the V12 but sadly it's not possible.
I agree.
CART was a good series in the USA IMO making it one make killed all interest in it for me and the hardcore fans.
If the big car companies pull out, and they may, the hybrid will become a poor choice and I would go for a 2.5 litre V8 NA engine. A good sound, size, weight and power and with the inevitably reduced budget if they do pull out a more sensible choice.
If they stay we will have hybrids which are stupendous bits of engineering but heavy.
I seem to remember Mansell's Renault was about the most powerful F1 car. Probably wrong. Frank ... help!!!


The most powerful was probably the BMW turbo 4 in qualifying trim.
It was good for one lap with the wastegate blocked off, so whatever boost it could get, around 1500 bhp from 1.5 litres.
We were racing close to 1000bhp in the mid 80s turbos.
The Renault turbo would have had that, maybe more.
The NA V10 used later at Williams would have been less.
 
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