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KEF R3 Speaker Review

Trouble Maker

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I will get them in case I can find a good deal.

A4L has the R3s refubished for $1600/pair. Though I wonder if you can deal with any dealers and get them close enough for new to make more sense. Though I have no idea if any KEF dealers can/do deal.

Walnut, black and white.

As far as I've been able to find there are no deals on the Elac DBR62s. The Elac Debut Reference line is relatively new right? Couple that with scarcity due to COVID19 and it could make sense there are no deals to be found (easily). Still, the DBR62s new are still less than half the price of refurbished R3s. I'm not knocking the idea despite them being in different price brackets. I've had a similar thought in my head in building my next imaginary at this point system; KEF R series or Elac Debut Reference series. I think it comes down less to which one is better, or especially a better value, as to how much money you want to spend. Of course the Elac is a better value. Assuming 2 good performing speakers for the price the more expensive speaker is almost always going to be a worse value re: 'laws' of diminishing return.
 
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stren

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Somebody needs to send in the r300 to compare and see if the changes were so significant as they say.

Or the reference one's and see how much more you get or don't get for 4x the price ;) There are b stock Ref 1's on sale for 5k a pair at kefdirect if anyone wants to volunteer to buy them. I'm only somewhat serious though, I think ASR has been great at finding relative bargains and exposing snake oil and errors, so personally I'd still focus on current affordable speakers (not old products like the r300). There are still current products like the Q150, Q350, LS50W from Kef to test, and that's just forgetting about all non bookshelves as well as the other brands. Ideally it'd be good to prioritize one speaker from each brand to get more of a flavor of what each manufacturer's style is for example, I don't think we've had anything from dynaudio, B&W, focal, monitor audio, dali, q acoustics etc. I'm not complaining btw, whatever we get is great data ;)
 

Pepperjack

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Haha looking at the b stock example photo it looks like somebody just touched it with a chalky fingerprint. I wonder if they just wanted to put them on sale, but not make it look like the speaker was actually worth less, so made up the b stock situation. Honestly, if it was really worth dropping 3,000 dollars, seems like they would just be better off dumping the bad batch of baffles...

but, on point you are correct, there are way better speakers to test than the old rx00 series! That was mostly a joke unless somebody just had them in the neighborhood.
 
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Trouble Maker

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Haha looking at the b stock example photo it looks like somebody just touched it with a chalky fingerprint.

Meeting notes 2020/03/04 RE Overstock on Ref line
Problem: Too much stock of Ref1, Ref2c, Ref5
C/M: Discount to move volume
Problem: Degrades flagship brand image
C/M: Sell as B-Stock
Problem: They are still new, so still could degrade flagship brand image
C/M: Put some schmutz on it.

Honestly, if it was really worth dropping 3,000 dollars, seems like they would just be better off dumping the bad batch of baffles...

Maybe not if they were already assembled, or even shipped to the US (I assume they are assembled in China, UK or elsewhere) when the defect was noticed. It could have been a systemic issue in the assembly process or even shipping affecting a whole lot/shift/batch of them. Probably just easier with similar end result for profits to sell at a smaller profit or cost than worry about trying to put a new baffle on the front.

I do wonder the strategy on what to discount and when. It seems unlikely to have a batch of b-stock for legitimate reasons for everything in a line you would need for a 5.0 setup. EDIT: The Ref1, 2c and 5 are all at similar discounts but only the 1 is b-stock. I've also wondered about KEFs lineup/pricing strategy in general. Let's talk about the 'big' standmounts. Q350 is $650, R3 is $2k and Ref1 is $8k. That seems like a pretty big jump from the Q350 to R3, but it's not the same layout (2way vs 3 way), but a massive jump from the R3 to Ref1. I imagine that leaves a lineup gap, though I honestly don't know typical price points are. It's also confusing that the nomenclature for the R series and Reference series has a mismatch.
 
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Ron Texas

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The price jump from the R series KEF's to the Reference series seems insane, especially considering the speakers are so similar in concept and size. It looks like a lot of money for an aluminum baffle. I wonder how an R/Reference blind shootout would go. I bet the difference would not be statistically significant.
 

QMuse

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The price jump from the R series KEF's to the Reference series seems insane, especially considering the speakers are so similar in concept and size. It looks like a lot of money for an aluminum baffle. I wonder how an R/Reference blind shootout would go. I bet the difference would not be statistically significant.

I fully agree. Even if there would be an audible difference I'm pretty sure most of us would find it too small to justify difference in price.
 

tuga

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The price jump from the R series KEF's to the Reference series seems insane, especially considering the speakers are so similar in concept and size. It looks like a lot of money for an aluminum baffle. I wonder how an R/Reference blind shootout would go. I bet the difference would not be statistically significant.

There are difference in cabinet construction and damping, not just the baffle, the reflex tubes are heavily damped and the (bass) drivers look different too:

20180905194540_KEF-R-SeriesInsideWeb.jpg
Reference_5_11.jpg
 
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andreasmaaan

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The Reference series in incrementally better in virtually every way. It seems to me though that in terms of the most important metrics, it's 90%+ there already with the R series, at a quarter of the price (which TBH is more a compliment to the R series than a criticism of the Reference series).
 

QMuse

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The Reference series in incrementally better in virtually every way. It seems to me though that in terms of the most important metrics, it's 90%+ there already with the R series, at a quarter of the price (which TBH is more a compliment to the R series than a criticism of the Reference series).

Here is what i think: pretty much every market leader tends to have a product that is more intended for image making than earning. They simply must have a product to demonstrate their technical excellence and that product is more a marketin than sales affair. To make a car analogy, BMW is for sure not earning much money with their M series but they are earning image with M cars while they make money on their standard cars and engines (think M3 vs 340 as an example).
 

andreasmaaan

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Here is what i think: pretty much every market leader tends to have a product that is more intended for image making than earning. They simply must have a product to demonstrate their technical excellence and that product is more a marketin than sales affair. To make a car analogy, BMW is for sure not earning much money with their M series but they are earning image with M cars while they make money on their standard cars and engines (think M3 vs 340 as an example).

I would 100% agree with you.... if it weren't for the Muon :p
 

Zvu

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It would be interesting to see its measurements done properly.
 

tuga

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It would be interesting to see its measurements done properly.

It would be interesting to see its measurements being done. The thing is massive.
 

Ron Texas

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Here is what i think: pretty much every market leader tends to have a product that is more intended for image making than earning. They simply must have a product to demonstrate their technical excellence and that product is more a marketin than sales affair. To make a car analogy, BMW is for sure not earning much money with their M series but they are earning image with M cars while they make money on their standard cars and engines (think M3 vs 340 as an example).

Can you back that statement up?
 

QMuse

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Can you back that statement up?

How exactly? I don't have revenue figures of R series vs reference series, if that is what you're asking. I do know first hand about the BMW revenue split between M series and other high power cars from 3 and 4 series with x30 and x40 petrol engines. :)
 

Ron Texas

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How exactly? I don't have revenue figures of R series vs reference series, if that is what you're asking. I do know first hand about the BMW revenue split between M series and other high power cars from 3 and 4 series with x30 and x40 petrol engines. :)

Tell me about BMW's. I just want the numbers, not a debate. Remember, revenue is not the same thing as profit. M cars are not built from scratch so they benefit from development of the non M versions.
 
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thewas

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It would be interesting to see its measurements being done. The thing is massive.
Its engineering though is older than the Blade 2 and current Reference and I am quite positive that both measure better.
The Muon is as said more a design and price/image/status statement.
 

QMuse

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