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Buchardt S400 Speaker Review

wwenze

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Crossover, cheap resistors and caps

index.php

I see Solen capacitors... good enough to be used in some boutique speakers...

What would be considered not-cheap then? Mundorf I suppose? In before we see a review of capacitors being tested.
 

SpaceMonkey

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Hi, would anyone know which OEM is making the WISA/amp for Buchardt and System Audio Silverback speakers? And which OEM module it is?
 

tecnogadget

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But does it sound too bright based on estimated in-room response?

index.php

Naahh...I would call it “detailed” instead of “bright” (just my opinion).
Anyways if that was the case it’s easily fixed with mild EQ/PEQ or even the dumbest tone control could make the day.
My informal in-room response has a huge bass boost just because they are a little bit close to a wall, bass is many times bigger magnitude and better extension that the Predicted, therefore I perceive it detailed but not bright (in my room/setup).
 

617

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I am really disappointed in how much attention the ASR community pays to Amir's listening impressions. I don't know what a high quality subjective review would even look like, but they pale in comparison to the quality of the technical report.

When I read a stereophile review, which at least lists the music sampled and uses both speakers, I still think "so what?".

I suspect many people want a foolproof buying guide, and imagine that ASR is identifying the best speakers beyond a shadow of the doubt, but in reality it's mostly just identifying which ones are worth auditioning.

Thanks to @hardisj and @amirm for the excellent data as usual, and to Buchardt for providing the DUT.
 

Midwest Blade

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It is just some sticker or screen to print that was placed there to claim the territory. These are SB acoustics drivers that are white labeled and relabeled for Burchardt. They likely just wanted it to look good in the product shots for promo material.
SB acoustics drivers are great and elsewhere on this site the Burchardt folks are talking about using them and how they are right next to the SB Acoustics folks in Denmark.
That conversation also brought up these pair of DIY kit speakers. I am really curious about them and how they measure. Not sure I want to pull the trigger though... https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/speaker-kits/satori-ara-2-way-speaker-kit-pair/
Uses the Satori line and a nice looking pre build enclosure, very easy DIY set.

I listened to these very speakers at Axpona a few years ago, SB had a room of their own. I came away very impressed and was surprised they were DIY kits. If in the market, I would put them on the list for sure.
 

MZKM

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Here is the company's measurement:
fig1.png


3 main differences standout:

1) They show a hump in the response at 2kHz for the on-axis/LW (however, the Sound Power is near identical).
2) They show no treble roll-off >10kHz for the Sound Power.
3) They show a bass bump before roll-off, whereas Amir has a flat line.
 
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ROOSKIE

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ROOSKIE

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Mads Buchardt said on another post that Buchardt has competencies and equipment in sophisticated scanning-based analysis. I wonder if these were deployed in trying to rationalise the enclosure design, and get it to be as cost-effective as possible below hearing thresholds, especially since much has been said about the cost of designing the waveguide.
It would seem to me that there is no reason, especially on a site that claims frequency response is what you hear, not driver materials that a resonate cabinet can't be a part of the system if well designed. It is really just a potential source of some output.
Obviously I can't say for sure on my own as I am not a expert.
I'm looking at products like stealth acoustics invisible speakers https://www.stealthacoustics.com/
They essential vibrate the enclosure wall. Read an interview where they plan to make boxes speakers with no visible drivers. Just a square that makes sound.
There are speakers that vibrate glass panels and some new car audio OEM systems that will vibrate the plastic interior panels.
https://www.digitalengineering247.com/article/speakerless-sound/

Now don't get me wrong. I like a hearty build on my speak but how much of that is just in my head as far as reality???
 

Ilkless

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It would seem to me that there is no reason, especially on a site that claims frequency response is what you hear, not driver materials that a resonate cabinet can't be a part of the system if well designed. It is really just a potential source of some output.
Obviously I can't say for sure on my own as I am not a expert.
I'm looking at products like stealth acoustics invisible speakers https://www.stealthacoustics.com/
They essential vibrate the enclosure wall. Read an interview where they plan to make boxes speakers with no visible drivers. Just a square that makes sound.
There are speakers that vibrate glass panels and some new car audio OEM systems that will vibrate the plastic interior panels.
https://www.digitalengineering247.com/article/speakerless-sound/

Now don't get me wrong. I like a hearty build on my speak but how much of that is just in my head as far as reality???

There is definitely enclosure contribution. The question is how much, and is it sufficiently masked by driver output? Since the early 90s, we have been able to measure enclosure vibration in isolation from the drivers' output. One can only hope such techniques were used by Buchardt to rationalise the enclosure design, not to cut costs indiscriminately.
 

wwenze

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Sometimes I wonder if the bass hump is a proximity effect (like those from close-miking of woofer which Stereophile plots have a lot of). In this particular case choosing tweeter center vs speaker geometric center can cause a difference

But I guess the Klippel should not be that dumb to not account for that...
 

ROOSKIE

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The company gives you a 30 day money back trial. If the speakers take 100 hours to 'break in' before they sound best then you'd have to listen over three hours a day, each day, before you will be able to tell. But then, your trial is over. How ridiculous is that?
huh? Not being snide here. If you want to break them in put them in the garage or other suitable location. Play four days straight. Listen for 4 more hours. Done.
You now have 25 days and 20 hours to judge them now.
Really this process is why some folks receive in break in. They are not getting used to the sound. They listen for 30 minutes, then do this and then listen again. Possibly different sound. Who knows, bias, confirmation of expectation, actual change???
In any case not a getting used to the sound.
 

Ron Texas

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While it's always a risk to idolize a product, it doesn't surprise me:
  • They were a speaker from a relative newcomer
  • They come from a small company
  • The speakers have a sleek design
  • They got good impressions/reviews
  • The company posted more measurements than almost any hifi-oriented company,
  • These were mostly very good measurements, capturing the objective crowd too.
  • They're relatively small.
  • And at launch in the US, their sticker price was a bit cheaper than some alternatives too.

One could probably reach a similar conclusion with the Ascend Sierra II.
 

Ilkless

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One could probably reach a similar conclusion with the Ascend Sierra II.

The Ascend, in addition, is US-assembled with a more exotic enclosure material (bamboo ply) than pretty much anything in its price range.
 

ROOSKIE

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There is definitely enclosure contribution. The question is how much, and is it sufficiently masked by driver output? Since the early 90s, we have been able to measure enclosure vibration in isolation from the drivers' output. One can only hope such techniques were used by Buchardt to rationalise the enclosure design, not to cut costs indiscriminately.
You missed my point friend. My point is that perhaps is does not need to be masked. Perhaps you could even make a cabinet that vibrates and sounds good, one where the cabinet itself is the driver. You see what I am wondering?
 

Ilkless

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You missed my point friend. My point is that perhaps is does not need to be masked. Perhaps you could even make a cabinet that vibrates and sounds good, one where the cabinet itself is the driver. You see what I am wondering?

That was the Harbeth schtick. But think about it, why use such an uncontrolled, imprecise and inconsistent method when you can simply engineer away cabinet contribution and focus on using more precise transducers to yield whatever the desired sound is?
 

maty

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I see Solen capacitors... good enough to be used in some boutique speakers...

What would be considered not-cheap then? Mundorf I suppose? In before we see a review of capacitors being tested.

About € 1,400 with electrolytics and sand resistors.

I guess you will not give importance, in cars, the brakes (disc or ABS) or the seat cover, no matter what the vehicle cost you.
 
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MZKM

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That was the Harbeth schtick. But think about it, why use such an uncontrolled, imprecise and inconsistent method when you can simply engineer away cabinet contribution and focus on using more precise transducers to yield whatever the desired sound is?
Because real musical instruments have cabinet vibrations, duh.
/s

Similar argument for people saying their high distortion amplifiers are good, as distorted electric guitars sound good.

Sure, those cabinet vibrations and distortions do exist, but they are already part of the recording, so anything more is not what the artists intended.
 

wwenze

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No I don't. I buy parts that are rated up to spec, are known to perform reliably at that spec. I pump the octance number that my car manufacturer says it needs and nothing more. Also cloth is way more comfortable than leather.

About € 1,400 with electrolytics and sand resistors.

I guess you will not give importance, in cars, the brakes (disc or ABS) or the seat cover, no matter what the vehicle cost you.

See bottom left for speaker brand and model. Solen seems good enough for this speaker. And electrolytics. Any recommendation for a 100V 47uF not-electrolytic?

83673890-67BE-4136-93AD-FB7768D472AE.thumb.jpeg.b992f07fb8e539a097a5b6a79ee92e43.jpeg


Actually... let me see the price of that model... *Googles* Oh holy sh-
 
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Rick Sykora

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Some overlays of technical curves for Buchardt S400:

View attachment 60265
View attachment 60268

Spin plus system impedance:

View attachment 60269

So, given Amir's impedance curve lacks any of the usual fluctuations from a driver or cabinet resonance, your model suggests that the 500 Hz spike is due to diffraction.

As the data suggests some indirect acoustic event AND the S400 cabinet has sharp edges, diffraction seems most likely bet at this point.

Nice work!
 
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