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Audyssey Room EQ Review

PierreV

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I bought this to solve my microphone attachment issues. A few EURs

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And yes, the USB cable was previously damaged when the stack of books/boxes/whatever I used before collapsed. I have others, it's just there for illustration purposes :) :)
 

Dj7675

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Conclusions
I came into this review expecting Audyssey to not perform. That was my experience and that of formal blind testing of it years back. The out of box results of this "XT32" version was better than I remembered. Still, using the App is mandatory to properly incorporate a target curve with more bass and removal of "BBC dip." Once there, I had no issues with its performance and I think it comes very close to advanced solutions like Dirac and Anthem ARC.
Thank you for taking the time to review Audyssey XT32 with the app. There are so many devices that are sold with it included, this is a very important review. Many of the devices are also very reasonably priced if you pick up an older model that is compatible with the app. I think it would be helpful to locate and list the oldest models the app is compatible with. On the Denon side I believe it is the X3300 for the 3xxx series.
This conclusion matched my experience. Audyssey XT32 works very well. Prior to the app, you were just stuck with 2 very bad target curves. The app fixes these issues.
The one thing the review doesn’t cover is how good Audyssey’s Subeq ht is with dual subs. This is the one area that Audyssey is better than Dirac (at least until their bass management gets released). To properly eq 2 subs with a Dirac system you really need to use a minidsp.
As others have mentioned, having a great SINAD is meaningless if there is no room eq, or if it is poorly implemented. Having used XT32 with the app, Dirac, and ARC, they all have worked well for me and I think the gap between them is smaller and often overstated.
@amirm is it possible to see what Dirac does to your system once it gets put back together (or if you have a previous measurement you have done from the past)?
 

Xyrium

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My guess is that it doesn't appeal to the beliefs of the 2 channel audiophile community. Just having that feature included would tarnish the purity of the signal. :p Even worse, it would have to include bass management and subwoofer outputs.

Geez, you sure maintain some angst against the "2 ch community". LOL

While my listening space doesn't permit 11.4 or even 5.2, it does allow 2.2, and recordings that were made with 2 channels in mind, are well reproduced. For those listening to movies or music which actually contains more than 2 channels of data to be sent to various channels, then greater than 2 mains and 2 subs makes sense.

The point is, there's an application for everything, and we need to remain objective in such matters.
 

gfx_1

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I've heard of those weak enough to actually accept and put up with WAF.... but not CAF lol.
Speaker size isn't a problem with them. Large enough to sit on. Music and tv doesn't trouble them but loud hissing noises are not appreciated.

List of compatible models with the Audyssey app:
Denon AV-ontvangers: AVR-X6300H, AVR-X4300H, AVR-X3300W, AVR-X2300W, AVR-X1300W, AVR-X1400H, AVR-X2400H, AVR-X3400H, AVR-X4400H, AVR-X6400H, AVC-X8500H, AVR-X1500H, AVR-X2500H, AVR-X3500H, AVR-X4500H, AVC-X6500H, AVR-X1600H, AVR-X2600H, AVR-X2600H DAB, AVR-X3600H, AVR-S750H, AVR-S950H
Marantz AV-ontvangers: AV7703, SR7011, SR6011, SR5011, NR1607, NR1608, SR5012, SR6012, SR7012, SR8012, AV7704, AV8805, NR1609, SR5013, SR6013, SR7013, AV7705, NR1710, SR5014, SR6014
Niet compatibel met Denon of Marantz modellen die niet hierboven worden vermeld.
 
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BsdKurt

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capt.s

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I have overlaid the target curve on top of the before and after measurement. We see that it has generally followed that curve. The big dip at the end is probably due to my measurement mic running without calibration.
Amir, the loss of HF response in REW is likely because you were running the sweep through L+R and the mic wasn't perfectly centered. If it not centered perfectly (1/2" makes a difference) you get some HF cancellation) If you were able to muster up a tripod and try again (holding by hand isn't ideal as you note) run a sweep with just L or R to begin with so you get an idea of when to HF roll off should be in your room and then you can play with mic position running L+R until you get the curve to match. It's interesting to then plot L then R then L+R. It's amazing how the room affects the frequency response of the left and right at the listening position in anything but a perfectly symmetrical room.
 

QMuse

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Amir, the loss of HF response in REW is likely because you were running the sweep through L+R and the mic wasn't perfectly centered. If it not centered perfectly (1/2" makes a difference) you get some HF cancellation) If you were able to muster up a tripod and try again (holding by hand isn't ideal as you note) run a sweep with just L or R to begin with so you get an idea of when to HF roll off should be in your room and then you can play with mic position running L+R until you get the curve to match. It's interesting to then plot L then R then L+R. It's amazing how the room affects the frequency response of the left and right at the listening position in anything but a perfectly symmetrical room.

Why even bother with sweeps when MMM with pink noise does the trick much quicker? ;)

Btw, HF stuff is anyhow not really important in this evaluation as only mild tone balance correction was done there and for sure those Ultima's produced them superbly.
 

capt.s

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Why even bother with sweeps when MMM with pink noise does the trick much quicker? ;)

Btw, HF stuff is anyhow not really important in this evaluation as only mild tone balance correction was done there and for sure those Ultima's produced them superbly.
Agreed, you could use pink noise too:). Also agreed that HF info is not that important when tackling room correction but it's a bit disconcerting to see the dip and it's an indication the mic isn't centered between the mains.
 

SKBubba

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I have an older version (x3300, which is pre-improvement and apparently doesn't measure well) that has xt32. My mains are refurb'd vintage Klipsch Quartets (Forte's little brother), and an old but not cheap Klipsch sub of some sort. I played around a lot with Audyssey (built-in, not using the app). I use roon for playback, all dsp off, topping d10 as a usb->toslink converter into the avr.

For music, I settled on "stereo" mode, Audyssey "flat", dynamic volume off, dynamic eq on, 10db reference offset. Front mains set to "small." This sounded best to me. Love the dynamic eq feature. It's like a smart loudness button! Sounds "rich" at lower volume, "live" at rock out volume.

Bonus: movies sound great (using Audyssey "reference" mode).

I played around with "direct" mode, but as good as the Quartets are for bass I missed the sub, which Audyssey manages nicely. Plus, it helps tame the Klipsch "harsh."

Anyway, just some anecdotal fyi. I'm happy with this setup, but now I wouldn't automatically dismiss an excuse for a future upgrade to the x3600 model.
 

617

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I found this useful webpage which has surprisingly good information on Audyssey:
https://audyssey.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/sections/202387323-Audyssey-101

Regarding the different versions:
MultEQ XT32: Our newest and most accurate room correction solution with more than ten thousand individual control points allowing finer details of the room’s problems to be captured and corrected. The ultra high resolution filters are applied to all channels including the subwoofers, with the most obvious benefit being heard in the low frequency range where correction is needed the most.

MultEQ XT: Our advanced resolution room correction solution with high resolution equalization filters for satellites and subwoofers. Most products with MultEQ XT are installer-ready and can be calibrated by an Audyssey Registered Installer to provide even higher performance for even the most demanding large or odd-shaped rooms.

MultEQ: Our standard resolution room correction solution that uses mid-level resolution filters for satellites and subwoofers.

2EQ: Our basic resolution room correction solution that uses basic resolution filters for the satellites, but does not apply a filter to the subwoofers.

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From what I can see it is very much worthwhile to get the best MultEQ version you can as this has a huge impact on sound quality - I don't think the DACs and Amps in these Denon units are very different. When I was looking for an inexpensive AVR I ended up with the the x1500h precisely due to the MultEQ XT, which was much better than than competing correction systems.

It's worth noting that the AVR Amir reviewed uses MultEQ XT32 which is the best one Denon offers. Below that they offer 2 units with MultEQ XT, and below that they offer a zillion units with MultEQ.
 

peng

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Sure, the more time you put to it the better it gets. :)

But the point here is that you managed to get very good results with your first try. Now, truth is that you have more skills than average user but this still indicates this is a very usefull product with which even an unexperienced user should be able to achieve results by carefully following the instructions. And, as you pointed out, that wil hugely improve SQ of a system.

Can't agree more, for inexperience users I would suggest they use the App to remove the BBC dip after, limit the range to be EQ'ed to 300 Hz, shape to curve as Amir did, that is, a smooth rise and then just sit back and enjoy. For the inexperienced but more curious ones, can always re-run and save a version or two that have EQ range up to 600 Hz or 1 kHz just so one can flip the two or three curves and then decide on settling on the one better to one's ears.

Any attempt to use REW to find tune the target curve to match the sharper dips and bumps especially the dips will likely end up with a mess unless one has good understand of room acoustic effects and REQ principles, or have infinite time on hand for the length, back straining and patience testing exercise.
 

MZKM

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I found this useful webpage which has surprisingly good information on Audyssey:
https://audyssey.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/sections/202387323-Audyssey-101

Regarding the different versions:
MultEQ XT32: Our newest and most accurate room correction solution with more than ten thousand individual control points allowing finer details of the room’s problems to be captured and corrected. The ultra high resolution filters are applied to all channels including the subwoofers, with the most obvious benefit being heard in the low frequency range where correction is needed the most.

MultEQ XT: Our advanced resolution room correction solution with high resolution equalization filters for satellites and subwoofers. Most products with MultEQ XT are installer-ready and can be calibrated by an Audyssey Registered Installer to provide even higher performance for even the most demanding large or odd-shaped rooms.

MultEQ: Our standard resolution room correction solution that uses mid-level resolution filters for satellites and subwoofers.

2EQ: Our basic resolution room correction solution that uses basic resolution filters for the satellites, but does not apply a filter to the subwoofers.

View attachment 59703

From what I can see it is very much worthwhile to get the best MultEQ version you can as this has a huge impact on sound quality - I don't think the DACs and Amps in these Denon units are very different. When I was looking for an inexpensive AVR I ended up with the the x1500h precisely due to the MultEQ XT, which was much better than than competing correction systems.

It's worth noting that the AVR Amir reviewed uses MultEQ XT32 which is the best one Denon offers. Below that they offer 2 units with MultEQ XT, and below that they offer a zillion units with MultEQ.
Also, even if the filter amounts were the same, XT32 is better than all the others because it now allocates more filters into the bass region, allowing for more correction where it’s needed.

I have Audyssey XT and when doing before/after measurements in REW, and this is what I got (yes, my subwoofer has a huge peak at 30Hz which it didn’t tame):
8V3tPRY.png

You can see that from 100Hz-600Hz is mostly just changed the levels, almost no correction of peaks/dips.
 
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peng

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Anyway to decide how the room corrected speakers you have would fair on the Harman scale?Seems to me it would boost the score significantly.

Imo Harman's session wasn't being fair to Audyssey as Dr. Toole and Olive are the psychoacoustics experts who know full well that most people do not prefer flat in room bass curve. Even with that much older XT version (assumed, but not XT32 for sure), most users would have like it better if they simply add a few dB to their subwoofers (not the same, I know, but would still be better to their ears). To me, I actually prefer the target curve to be flat by default, then I can use the app to do what Amir did, but to a sharper, or more gentle rise towards the low end. Dirac Live allows that too obviously. Anthem ARC apparently default to a slope, but likely user adjustable as well.
 

peng

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Is your mic cal loaded properly in REW? The HF roll-off seems excessive. More than 15dB down at 10k relative to 1kHz...

If he set had the EQ range to 300 Hz and select the reference curve, the HF, in actual from above 300 Hz, the actual curve should match/overlaps the curve for with Audyssey. I have REW graphs that shows/prove that it is the case. Since his "on" vs "curves seem to indicate he had the "flat" curve selected. Audyssey (iirc, it's the Ask Audyssey site) confirmed that the range limit is ignored if the "flat" target curve was selected.
 

Balle Clorin

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Yes, one of the unsung features of Room EQ is the matching of levels and delays which improves imaging (as does reduction of room modes).


Thanks. Corrected.
Yes , when a time align my speakers with my DSP preamp the effect is quite obvious on imaging, presence and focus. Of course accurate placement and a steady head position can do the same . The ability to turn on off alignment in 0.2sec makes the comparison easy.
Here is L+R unaligned in red and time aligned by DSP (including first reflection correction)=black
5F1D4A12-F2E6-4643-9602-1B10CE6695FB.jpeg
 
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capt.s

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XT32 vs Dirac - I got a trial PC license for Dirac and compared to XT32. Dirac let's you choose what seating positions you want to measure for and I used the single listening position for music. I immediately noticed improved imaging over XT32 and was about to pull the the trigger on a MiniDSP SHD (still might). However, it occurred to me the Audyssey App encourages you to take measurements around a couch to optimize (more like compromise) for movies. I re-ran XT32 taking 6 measurements pulled into to the main listening position (12" apart from one another) and the difference in center stage imaging was amazing, in line with Dirac. Makes sense really, you can only optimize for one position but the overall room mode improvements makes the movie watching great for everyone. I used to limit XT32 to 300Hz but now I much prefer to run it FLAT for the full range.
 

Balle Clorin

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Agreed, you could use pink noise too:). Also agreed that HF info is not that important when tackling room correction but it's a bit disconcerting to see the dip and it's an indication the mic isn't centered between the mains.
I suggest getting Umik-1 calibrated usb microphone. HF is important so show proper in room response and investigate impulse responses. By the way room correction /convolution is as far as I understand based on a reverse filter obtained by the impulse response. So a calibrated mic all the way to 24k is a good thing a think.
 
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