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Verdant Audio Bambusa AL-1 Review

GXAlan

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verdantaudio

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In the thread where Amir asked which DIY loudspeakers to review, I mentioned Verdant Audio and Scott (the designer and owner -- was either notified or already a member of ASR) decided to follow up. I didn't think he would actually send them. These results come to me as no surprise. All of his loudspeakers are "cookie cutter" designs that (I believe) aim to entice audiophiles through the use of "high end" cabling, binding posts, audiophile grade crossover parts and rather expensive transducers. I do appreciate the Scott's valiance though... I'd imagine that a lot of manufacturers would refuse to and, or be reluctant to send their equipment to Amir for objective evaluation.

EQ + Subwoofer(s) would be absolutely necessary -- All of his loudspeakers are "bass shy."
-- The $10k flagship model -- Blackthorn 1
  • 60 Hz – 18.7 kHz +/- 3 dB
  • 51 Hz – 19.1 kHz +/- 6dB
  • 43 Hz – 20.0 kHz +/- 10dB

LDTKA, I am curious who you are. I assume you aren't someone I know personally, but I from Agon or Facebook. Just curious and no hard feelings. Feel free to PM if you don't want to share here.

I do take exception to your description above. Our intent with using premium parts was not to "entice audiophiles" but to prove I am not cutting corners and using cheap parts. I have purchased a lot of high end gear through the years and have been extremely disappointed in some of the finishing touches. For example, I purchase a $7.2K pair of speakers to get a product that had cheap binding posts that only accepted banana plugs and had cheap plastic feat on the stands. I have had amplifiers that use cheap parts and turn into maintenance issues because of corporate accounting departments. It is a statement that I have the freedom to make choices that are in the best interest of my customers. Of course....a better crossover design in these two products would probably be better than good caps and binding posts but that is a separate issue. I will elaborate on that separately in a different post.

Regarding why would I ship here for measurement. If one only seeks advice from people they know will give them positive responses, how do you get better? It had the "nice price" in that Amir even offered to pay shipping one way. I declined to take him up on that. But I read this site and new what I was getting into prior to shipment.

Bamboo adds costs in terms of raw material and CNC time. For example, just the raw materials in terms of MDF would be about $7.50 (not a typo) for a pair of these while the bamboo is about $225. I don't do the cabinet production myself at this time and have a cabinet maker that does them. Someone in the prior thread criticized the design having the top and bottom edges exposed and that was a choice. My cabinet maker is perfectly capable of mitering the edges to get a flush fit and we opted against this because I preferred this aesthetic.

That being said, bamboo is 30% stronger than red oak, because it is laminated, is homogeneous in terms of density and slats are selected explicitly so there are no voids. It is a great material to make speaker cabinets from. It also is easy to finish in the sense that a rubbed oil or clear coat can be applied. It is difficult to stain so needs to be veneered if you want to transform the look. And CNC time is significantly longer than MDF and it burns through saw blades and router bits much faster.
 

tuga

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It’s hard to know if hifinews’s test setup is accurate since every speaker seems to show wild swings including the

Revel F228Be
https://www.hifinews.com/content/revel-performa-f228be-loudspeaker-lab-report

And

Paradigm Persona 9H
https://www.hifinews.com/content/paradigm-persona-9h-loudspeaker-lab-report

Might be mostly an optical illusion, Hi-Fi News' plot is only 30dB-wide but the proportions are identical.

F228Be
419revel.reso.jpg

https://www.hifinews.com/content/revel-performa-f228be-loudspeaker-lab-report
119Revelfig4.jpg

https://www.stereophile.com/content/revel-performa-f228be-loudspeaker-measurements



Triton One.R
120golden.resp.jpg

https://www.hifinews.com/content/goldenear-triton-oner-loudspeaker-lab-report
1119GET1Rfig3.jpg

https://www.stereophile.com/content/goldenear-technology-triton-oner-loudspeaker-measurements
 

MZKM

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My cabinet maker is perfectly capable of mitering the edges to get a flush fit and we opted against this because I preferred this aesthetic.
Maybe you should poll some audiophiles, as it’s the majority of your potential consumer base whose aesthetic you are trying to appeal to. I for one prefer speaker cabinets to look like one single enclosure (maybe the baffle being attached on).
 

wwenze

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This is what it looks like, no baffle step compensation.

I'm not sure corner placement is a good solution.

Speakers that have a flat anechoic on axis response are preferred. This still has a big blip in that context.

"Designed to be placed next to a PC monitor"
 

verdantaudio

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I have learned quite a bit as a result of this. Irony of ironies is that when I was getting these results in terms of my measurement, I assumed it was some sort of in-room response rather than an issue with the crossover. My crossover designer (who shall remain un-named) did a nice job on my first two products. Frequency response was flatter (see attached measurements from Excelsior below) and the consumer and critical response has been almost universally positive. I have had other speaker designers pull me aside and heap praise on those two speakers.

Regarding measurement: Yes, these flaws showed up and I ignored both the measurements and my ears because I was a fool and believed the relative infallibility of my CO designer. This was driven by how good the first two speakers turned out and by oddities elsewhere in the frequency response curve that I was certain were oddities in my room. I had a big dip in measured response at 120hz for instance that was driven by the room. I have since been given some solid advice how to isolate the room in terms of test measures which I will be implementing on all future designs. I will trust my microphone moving forward.

Secondarily, I made changes in both my bench-marking process and placement which impacted the resulting design. These were benchmarked, not vs my external competitor but my own, higher end speakers which was a mistake. I accepted that since these were less expensive I should hear a degradation in terms of sound profile rather than focusing on my competitive benchmark and ensuring these outperformed it. I also know that my placement was closer to the wall in terms of voicing which accentuated the bass. For the MG 1, I also noticed and intentionally turned the speakers off axis during the voicing process because the frequency response was smoother. This shows up in the data.

These are mistakes that I shouldn't have made and these are clearly rookie design mistakes. They will not be repeated. I will trust my software, always use a competitive benchmark and set a more rigorous set of QC controls during the voicing process. This was sloppy.

All that being said, neither of these speakers sounds bad and in-room, I think the AL 1s sound pretty good. The measurements look don't look great but in terms of the actual listening experience, they can be quite pleasant with proper setup. Setup may be a-typical (near the wall in both cases and not toed or minimally toed in the case of the MG 1) but you wouldn't walk into a room and be horrified. Don't get me wrong, for the prices I need to charge, "not bad" is unacceptable. I need them to sound great and that is and always will be my mission.

One note, the slightly accentuated treble you are seeing in all of my speaker design is driven by the fact that I like a bit of top end sparkle. That is definitely me and my taste and I would not change my Nightshade or Blackthorn models regardless of what measurements say.
 

Attachments

  • Blackthorn 1 Loudspeaker Measurement Report (1).pdf
    1 MB · Views: 185
  • Nightshade 1 Loudspeaker Measurement Report.pdf
    1.6 MB · Views: 154

verdantaudio

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Maybe you should poll some audiophiles, as it’s the majority of your potential consumer base whose aesthetic you are trying to appeal to. I for one prefer speaker cabinets to look like one single enclosure (maybe the baffle being attached on).

This is a fair point. This is a matter of taste and it is decidedly possible my taste is out of line with the majority. Wouldn't be the first time, that is for certain.
 

Doodski

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One note, the slightly accentuated treble you are seeing in all of my speaker design is driven by the fact that I like a bit of top end sparkle.
I like sparkle too and first thing I usually do is up the EQ on the top end because I like that. Probably why I enjoyed the MB Quart home audio speaker line when they where a thing. It took fortitude and guts to come here and face this crowd at ASR. That looks good on you. :D
 
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MZKM

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This is a fair point. This is a matter of taste and it is decidedly possible my taste is out of line with the majority. Wouldn't be the first time, that is for certain.
Yeah, I don’t wanna tell you how to run your business, but for the cabinet‘s looks to be brought up by a few people just on this forum is something to take note of.
 

Selah Audio

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Bamboo ply is quite expensive but not all brands are of the same quality. You can also use bamboo veneer over MDF. Here are some examples.
 

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  • Julietta Rear View.jpg
    Julietta Rear View.jpg
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  • Julietta Front View.jpg
    Julietta Front View.jpg
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Shazb0t

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Bamboo ply is quite expensive but not all brands are of the same quality. You can also use bamboo veneer over MDF. Here are some examples.
I think bamboo veneer would defeat the entire point of using bamboo to make the cabinet in the first place.
 

Selah Audio

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Actually feel bad that the manufacturer took the risk to send the speaker only to see it get beat up here.
Not many will take that risk knowing that only the facts will be presented and not softened by advertising dollars.
We do need to be more charitable in these cases, and that includes myself. ;)

Manufacturers like myself value good measurements that are taken properly and consistent. Interpretation and reviews based on measurements and performance are still fairly subjective. That said, there are companies who would never send anything to Amir because they cannot be guaranteed a 100% glowing review.
 
D

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This is a fair point. This is a matter of taste and it is decidedly possible my taste is out of line with the majority. Wouldn't be the first time, that is for certain.
A lot of critiques and chirping here, but when it comes right down to it, you should build the speakers you want to build. Aesthetics, voicing, price-points, etc, etc, etc, are all factors that don't show up with Klippel NFS testing, but are perfectly valid factors that may or may not appeal to your customers.

Audiophiles are WEIRD people. That must always be understood when producing/marketing a product. :)

Dave.
 

Doodski

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Aesthetics
In my 9 years of specializing in the retailing of home audio I can say that the order of preference in speaker finishes was:
-black wood grain real and fake.
-dark walnut real and fake.
-grand piano black and white.(more expensive.)
-blonde wood grains.(for some reason blonde oak and other blonds where rare purchases.)
-the exotic woods from South America and Africa.(people loved them but they where very expensive.)

We ordered in truckloads of MB Quart home speakers in many finishes. They all sold and sold off each other when the customers saw all the choices they had. The more choices of finishes the more excitement at the point of purchase but the customers needed to see and feel them otherwise they didn't gravitate to them at all overall. It seems to be a tactile visual thing for them to get them to pony up for the exotic finishes.
 

Selah Audio

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Are you going to or have you sent in one or more of your own products for measurement? I only see the old RCR3 and those were lent by an owner.

I would be happy to do that. I've been following the reviews to look for more consistency in the measurements and comments.
 

suttondesign

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The market offers endless numbers of small 2-ways in boxes, from long-established mfrs. of all quality levels to jackie-come-latelys. It appears to me that the innovation is coming from mfrs. large and small employing waveguides and other directivity control. When I see off-the-shelf woofers and tweeters, of any price point, stuck onto a squirrel coffin (TM) with an ordinary flat baffle, my first thought is that time has passed the designer by. Amphion, Dutch, Revel, JBL, Genelec, Buchardt, and others seem to be leading the way. Lots of old faves that we knew and loved in the 1990's don't seem to tolerating what the young whipper-snappers are doing. No matter how much resonance you wring out of the cabinet, or how luxe the drivers, you still just get a box speaker with response irregularities that represent another flavor at the Baskin-Robbins.
 

QMuse

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Actually seems really good. Assuming you use EQ(which you should always), you can easily EQ down that midrange bump. I mean even with the midrange bump, it seems to be one of the highest rated "small ID manufacturer" speakers we've seen, and it's quite EQable.

Yep, a bunch of mild filters applied on PIR and there we are.. :D

Capture.JPG
 

infinitesymphony

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Yep, a bunch of mild filters applied on PIR and there we are.. :D
I know you've discussed this elsewhere, but, what application are you using to shape these filters, and what's the easiest way to apply them to playback either in hardware or software (Roon, foobar2000, Dirac Live / miniDSP SHD, etc.)? I'm looking into the Dirac Live for Studio plugin for my DAW workflow but wouldn't mind having a few different options for applying corrective EQ on other setups. Not so long ago this task would've been handled with a stereo graphic EQ on a budget. :cool:
 
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