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Meridian G68ADV: were AV Processor Ever Good?

tecnogadget

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We could blame HDMI for pushing a few small brands out. And also of being a not perfectly integrated connection (amir has already measured the side effects of HDMI vs other connections).

But remember that thanks to HDMI bandwidth we can enjoy the same LOSSLESS MASTER as the studio were the movies were mixed and produced, in the confort of our couch trough BluRay discs (aka DTS HD Master Audio, Dolby True HD, etc).
 

anmpr1

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My memories of Meridian's stereo gear of old was of constant tweaking in production. Demo kit had to be turned round at least twice a year because of incremental changes...
No experience with Meridian, but that's how the domestic 'high-end' worked here in the US of A. The running joke was how many updates ARC could milk out of their tube preamp? At the same time they were barking in front of the tent about their new and improved 'analog modules' they were still offering updates for your old SP3. And charging for the 'service'. The SP3--your gift to ARC that kept on giving.

Much easier now. Back then it wasn't a software/firmware update. You had to drag your gear to your local dealer (who would probably give you a loaner--something someone traded in most likely) or, god forbid, you sent it back to the factory and hoped they sent it back before the leaves on the trees changed. By the time you got it back there was a new mod out...:facepalm:
 

anmpr1

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Just to add, that many licenses are based on an up-front fee, plus a small unit cost for each item made/sold. The up-front fee can be many tens of thousands, which isn't a problem for a Sony who may make tens of thousands of units, but for a small manufacturer who may make a few hundred, maybe few thousands, the cost that has to be added to each unit then becomes prohibitive.
A couple of years ago (not that anyone cared) Teac stopped adding Dolby NR to their cassette decks. They claimed that Dolby stopped licensing the tech for cassette media.

So anytime a manufacturer depends on third party tech for current production, you're sort of at their mercy. Again, with cassettes it didn't matter because the market had passed that format by--for something like HDMI...
 

Tks

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If it's one thing I hate about HDMI is the inconsistent dimensions for I/O or the connector itself. For some inferfacing, it latches on nice and well. For others, it wobbles, and it feels like the connector was lubed with how easy it can come off if pulled.
 

Billy Budapest

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My TAG McLaren AV32RDP from a similar era performed about the same as the Meridian here. No plots Im afraid. Its reasonable/good for the era but not competitive nowadays compared to the best audio only dacs.

Analog Output Signal To Noise Ratio>104dB (A-wtd)
Analog Output THD and Noise (0dB full-scale)<0.002%

View attachment 57277

View attachment 57278
TAG McLaren was such a weird joint venture. A Swiss watchmaker and a British race car manufacturer team up to make stereos. How long do you think that would last?
 

Morpheus

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We did the surface mount in our motorsport electronics facility, through hole and final assembly were done in the factory we built in Huntingdon. That factory was sold to Meridian after TMA's IP was sold to IAG.

Hi, out of place here probably but just wanted to give you a big thanks for making something so awesome as REW freely available to anyone into quality audio reproduction. Your effort did more for the enjoyement of music at home in general than anything else I have come across in this hobby. Many thanks again, it really makes a huge difference for so much of us..
 

March Audio

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Frank Dernie

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Tag, the parent holding company actually have fingers in lots of pies. Tag heuer is just one of them.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Techniques_d'Avant_Garde
When McLaren decided to do their own electronics for racing they poached Udo Zucher from Bosch who had been leading the team doing the electronic engine management system for the Porsche turbo F1 engine (funded by and labelled TAG).
Udo was a hifi fan and they ended up buying Audiolab from Philip Swift (who then bought Spendor) and renaming it TAG-McLaren, since he wanted to make hifi.
Apart from being wholly or partly owned by TAG, Heuer and McLaren electronics didn't have anything to do with each other and the whole shebang was in England, TAG McLaren Electronics at the McLaren technical centre and TAG McLaren hifi in Huntingdon where Audiolab (and loads of other UK hifi companies) are.
 
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andymok

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Just to add, that many licenses are based on an up-front fee, plus a small unit cost for each item made/sold. The up-front fee can be many tens of thousands, which isn't a problem for a Sony who may make tens of thousands of units, but for a small manufacturer who may make a few hundred, maybe few thousands, the cost that has to be added to each unit then becomes prohibitive.

S.
First you need to join the club, then you need to pay for drinks, also for the menu...
 

sergeauckland

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A couple of years ago (not that anyone cared) Teac stopped adding Dolby NR to their cassette decks. They claimed that Dolby stopped licensing the tech for cassette media.

So anytime a manufacturer depends on third party tech for current production, you're sort of at their mercy. Again, with cassettes it didn't matter because the market had passed that format by--for something like HDMI...
Dolby B licenses didn't have an upfront fee, but charged, if I remember correctly, 2 cents for each processor, so 8c on each tape machine sold, 4c on players only, like Walkmen. As a consequence of the low cost of adoption, Dolby B, then C became standard for all domestic tape machines whilst other noise reduction systems like dBx, DNS and HiCom never got going. Considering the millions of tape machines sold over the years of tape, even at 2c a processor, Dolby made a very tidy sum out of the licenses.

S.
 

dlinsley

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Thank you @amirm for reviewing my unit. Although the photo has Trifield shown, I assume you used Direct mode to avoid all processing. Did you get a chance to change the "HS" to Y? This engages upsampling, and this G68 was updated to the last firmware which added the minimum phase / apodizing filter. It would be interesting to see if it has any effect.
 

laudio

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Avrs in general (at least the amp sections) started regressing after HDMI came out. Low cost HDMI audio extractors solve that problem.
 
OP
amirm

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Can someone elaborate on @amirm explanation of how HDMI caused the high end /small volume brands to exit the AV market please. I don't doubt it, just dont understand how a new connection standard pushes smaller players out.
Implementing S-video, component and composite video did not require ICs. They had been around widely and you could either implement your own or buy ICs from a number of companies. HDMI on the other hand, was beyond any of these companies' abilities to spin their own solution and required buying ready-made ICs. Silicon Image basically owned the market and naturally gravitated toward supporting major companies with volume such as major CE companies in Japan and Korea.

This is a "normal" process in silicon business. If you are only going to buy a few parts, companies don't deal with you direct. You can buy the parts but you won't get support from the factory. And support was critical for HDMI given the myriad of bugs and implementation issues with it at the start.

Companies were forced to go to middle-mans in Taiwan who built HDMI subsystems but that was too much to manage for many companies. And those that did use them got burnt bad with lack of support and bugs.

Blu-ray was the other nail in the coffin of high-end audio companies building video products. Early silicon was simply not licensed to these companies. Silicon was either made by their competitors (major Japanese companies) or American companies who didn't want to deal with small players.
 

Jimbob54

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Ahhh, it was the IC reference I didn't get. Integrated circuit, ie beyond their abilities to make in house. Thanks
 

xykreinov

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If it's one thing I hate about HDMI is the inconsistent dimensions for I/O or the connector itself. For some inferfacing, it latches on nice and well. For others, it wobbles, and it feels like the connector was lubed with how easy it can come off if pulled.
Just another reason DisplayPort should have won the popularity war.
 

Putter

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Implementing S-video, component and composite video did not require ICs. They had been around widely and you could either implement your own or buy ICs from a number of companies. HDMI on the other hand, was beyond any of these companies' abilities to spin their own solution and required buying ready-made ICs. Silicon Image basically owned the market and naturally gravitated toward supporting major companies with volume such as major CE companies in Japan and Korea.

This is a "normal" process in silicon business. If you are only going to buy a few parts, companies don't deal with you direct. You can buy the parts but you won't get support from the factory. And support was critical for HDMI given the myriad of bugs and implementation issues with it at the start.

Companies were forced to go to middle-mans in Taiwan who built HDMI subsystems but that was too much to manage for many companies. And those that did use them got burnt bad with lack of support and bugs.

Blu-ray was the other nail in the coffin of high-end audio companies building video products. Early silicon was simply not licensed to these companies. Silicon was either made by their competitors (major Japanese companies) or American companies who didn't want to deal with small players.

It's an interesting story. It doesn't quite explain why even large companies like Onkyo got so badly burned with defective HDMI boards. For that matter it seemed to be a problem for all the makers, albeit not to the same degree. Then there's the HDMI pass through fiasco. Let's sell AV receivers that actually require an EXTRA cable and can't even take advantage of the improvements from BluRay audio. My feeling is that the 'forced' introduction of HDMI crippled the market for surround sound from which it will likely not recover.
 

Xulonn

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Avrs in general (at least the amp sections) started regressing after HDMI came out. Low cost HDMI audio extractors solve that problem.

[Note: Partially Cross-posted on my center channel thread.]

I am an older audiophile and film lover (not quite as old as Dobri Dobrev, the gentleman who is my new avatar). I am an American expatriate - a retiree on a modest pension - and in a little mountain valley tourist town in Western Panama. My office-A/V room is very small, but I like good audio and and enjoy watching videos on a 1080p, 40" Samsung LED TV using my 2-channel audio system for the soundtracks. My A/V source is an older Intel NUC5CPYH mini-PC, and my music is digital audio files that range from low bitrate MP3 to 24/96 FLAC. Videos are mostly MP4 or MKV files with up to 1080 resolution and 5.1 audio. No way am I going to invest in a full 5.1 system with separate electronics and speakers - not even a used AVR.

I am basically happy with my audio system in spite of its limitations (see my signature for details), but decided to potentially stretch my budget and "upgrade" my audio by replacing my little 2-way Paradigm Atom bookshelf speakers (no sub) with the larger 3-way Wharfedale Evo 4.2 speakers, and add a matching Evo 4c center speaker for watching movies and documentaries, which is something I do 4-5 nights every week.

And therein lies the problem. The above discussion includes the difficulties of implementing multichannel sound without buying a separate AVR or AV Preamp, and no one does 3.1. Even the original 5.1 surround system is becoming less common. Simply extracting and doing a simple DA conversion for a video-only center channel signal from HDMI to improve dialog clarity is not easy for a 2-channel audiophile.

Appropriate to this thread and its subtopic of multichannel audio technology is the fact that, after hours of searching the internet, I found only one promising multi-channel HDMI Audio Extractor/DAC, the Evolve II-4K HDMI v2.0 / Multi-Channel DAC. It is a $299 unit from Essence Audio in Florida - a real company with real people to contact. The Evolve looks simple, is reasonably priced, and has no frills. It was the only one I found from a known company that appears to be a reseller, but not a re-labeler of generic cheap-electronics.
Essence  HDMI 8-Channel Dac.jpg


Amir tested another Essence HDMI DAC, the $699 Essence HDACC II-4K HDMI/USB DAC, and found it to be a decent produts. Like many of its cheaper current generic ChiFi counterparts, the HDACC II-4K only extracted and converted the front L/R channels from HDMI. The architecture seems to be more of a conventional 2-channel DAC with a limited 2-channel HDMI signal extractor added.
Essence HDACC II-4K HDMI DAC Back Panel Audio Review.jpg


For el-cheapo multichannel HDMI extraction, there are a couple of similar appearing "families" of multi-channel DACs with slight variations in configuration and labeling appearing at a multitude of internet seller sites. The one below is the one I chose to purchase and have drop-shipped to @amirm for testing. If it is decent, I will use it, switching to it for L/R/C to feed 3-channel audio for video viewing, while leaving the surround channels unconnected. If it doesn't perform decently in testing, I will save my money and get the Essence unit - and I hope another ASR member will buy the Essence Evolve II unit and send it to @amirm for testing.
HDMI 5.1 RCA Extractor.jpg
 
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