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Topping D90 Balanced USB DAC Review

Veri

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As I want to do DSP I need to route input and output channels simultaniously with REAPER.
Is there an opportunity to do so?

Quite easy to do with a virtual cable, for loopback purposes. Download and install VB-Audio Hi-Fi Cable.
Purpose is to loop from your virtual input cable to your end device, applying VST along the way.

You might need to tweak the block size though, if you have stutters. Latency will increase but unless you're gaming etc that won't matter much. Just pick a rate that is stable. NOTE that you will need to use same sample rate from input to output. Preferably 44kHz or 48kHz (I use 48kHz here):

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Viper Necklampy

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Who has D90 please can you, even briefly, compare the sound of optical to Usb or I2s? I will use it only so please forgive me but this is a critical question to me. Some people say optical is not good and is limited in audio performance, some say it is good but only with very good cables.
We are in 2020 and ak4118 is the latest spdif receiver, which D90 got, so maybe i have a chance not ending my hifi dream because of optical is not as good.. Pleassse :)
 

barrows

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Who has D90 please can you, even briefly, compare the sound of optical to Usb or I2s? I will use it only so please forgive me but this is a critical question to me. Some people say optical is not good and is limited in audio performance, some say it is good but only with very good cables.
We are in 2020 and ak4118 is the latest spdif receiver, which D90 got, so maybe i have a chance not ending my hifi dream because of optical is not as good.. Pleassse :)

I have the D-90 but only use the USB input. Amir's measurements show that USB on this DAC is superior to SPDIF technically (optical is SPDIF). as for a subjective comparison, this is probably the wrong forum to ask this question at...
 

Viper Necklampy

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I have the D-90 but only use the USB input. Amir's measurements show that USB on this DAC is superior to SPDIF technically (optical is SPDIF). as for a subjective comparison, this is probably the wrong forum to ask this question at...
I see where is this minded, sorry if i ask here. So, if anyone who listen with ears please, report me back with a private message how optical stack up in sound vs usb or I2s in sound, please, in this moments to me would be very appreciated, i'm in high doubts.
 

Dhananjeyan

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Hello anyone who has a d90 experiencing a faint crackle when playing or pausing music? I have only tried the d90 on usb so far.
 

Nicolaas

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Hello anyone who has a d90 experiencing a faint crackle when playing or pausing music? I have only tried the d90 on usb so far.
When playing music via USB there is always a chance for glitches and dropouts. This is valid for any USB dac. Especially with higher res music like 24 b 96k. My measures to prevent glitches: I only play higher res files from my internal SSD drive (so not from an external hard disk that has been connected via USB). And while playing my FLAC files I switch off the ethernet network! This way I very seldom experience a glitch or dropout!
 

Selfmade

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Quite easy to do with a virtual cable, for loopback purposes. Download and install VB-Audio Hi-Fi Cable.
Purpose is to loop from your virtual input cable to your end device, applying VST along the way.

You might need to tweak the block size though, if you have stutters. Latency will increase but unless you're gaming etc that won't matter much. Just pick a rate that is stable. NOTE that you will need to use same sample rate from input to output. Preferably 44kHz or 48kHz (I use 48kHz here):

Thank you for your help. I will try this evening.
 

AndyLu

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Hello anyone who has a d90 experiencing a faint crackle when playing or pausing music? I have only tried the d90 on usb so far.

No issues with my D90 on my computer via USB. On an older computer I had some crackle/dropouts etc. on other DACS, but that was always due to the computer, Not the DACs. Maybe you can try another USB connection on the computer or another USB cable? Or try another computer (or disable all non-necessary programs/services/tasks on your current computer). Also, as others said, try a different source (SSD instead of USB). Or if you are playing from a NAS check your network speed or connect a drive directly to your computer.
See if that helps.
 

Matias

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Hello anyone who has a d90 experiencing a faint crackle when playing or pausing music? I have only tried the d90 on usb so far.
Try increasing the buffer size.
 
Last edited:

Peib

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Can this dac be called high end ? I only read good opinions of it

I have a (probably) newbie question, is it posible that usb input performs very well but the others inputs and outputs (spdif, toslink) works really bad?


Sorry for my bad English, i hope u understood me
 

barrows

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Can this dac be called high end ? I only read good opinions of it

I have a (probably) newbie question, is it posible that usb input performs very well but the others inputs and outputs (spdif, toslink) works really bad?


Sorry for my bad English, i hope u understood me
Can this dac be called high end ? I only read good opinions of it

I have a (probably) newbie question, is it posible that usb input performs very well but the others inputs and outputs (spdif, toslink) works really bad?


Sorry for my bad English, i hope u understood me

Yes, it is a good DAC. The SPIDF inputs are technically not as good as the USB, but in audible terms they are still good. And your English is fine, so please feel free to ask any questions you have.
 

AndyLu

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Can this dac be called high end ? I only read good opinions of it

I have a (probably) newbie question, is it posible that usb input performs very well but the others inputs and outputs (spdif, toslink) works really bad?


Sorry for my bad English, i hope u understood me

Yes this DAC can perform well as a high-end DAC in a high-end system. There are a couple of objective and subjective reasons for this:
  • Amir's measurements show that this DAC measures as well (or better) as other high-end DACs.
  • The Sinad score of this DAC is in the top together with high end DACs.
  • Amir also measured a PS Audio 'Perfect wave Direct stream' DAC (around $6000). As far as I know PS Audio is considered a 'high end' audio equipment manufacturer. But..... the D90 has a much better Sinad score (in the top) than the PS Audio (bottom level). Also in the audio tests the PS Audio does not sound good at all according to Amir. The D90 comes highly recommended, the PS Audio is not recommended at all.
  • Subjective: A friend of mine has a high end system with Spectral amplifiers and Avalon speakers. He has 2 DACS. We listened to all the DACs via a PC (highly optimized for audio) via usb with Audirvana and Roon:
    • DAC 1: DCS Bartok (around $12000). Considered a very high end and well respected DAC. Compared with the D90 there were almost no audible differences. We thought we heard some tiny differences in soundstage (D90 was a bit more holographic). Bartok was a tiny bit more refined in the high frequencies. But this could just as well be our imagination, a difference in gain or our own bias.
    • DAC 2: Metrum Acoustics Pavane (around $5000). Also a DAC in the 'high end' realm. With the D90 we thought we heard a little bit more detail and separation between the instruments. Again highly subjective. Maybe a difference in gain or bias from our side. Or maybe what we heard was true (and the D90 simply is better because it measures better). No way to know that for sure.
To make a long story short:

- The Bartok is around 17 times more expensive than the D90. The D90 measures probably as well or better than the Bartok and there are almost no audible differences. As far as I know the Bartok is not measured on this site, but there are some subjective reviews on this forum.

- The Pavane is around 7 times more expensive than the D90. The D90 (in our subjective ears) sounded a little bit better than the Pavane. As far as I know there are no measurements of the Pavane on this site, but it wouldn't surprise me if the D90 measures better.

- The $6000 PS Audio is seemingly no match at all for the D90, sound wise and measurement wise. Of course, I can't confirm that, because I never owned or heard a PS Audio DAC, but Amir's review seems to indicate that.

USB is always better than spdif and toslink on any DAC (because of the limitations of toslink and spdif). On the D90 spdif and toslink still sounds very good, but USB is better.

Conclusion:
The D90 sounds as good (or better) as 'high end' DACs and measures as good (or better) as high end DACS, so it must be a high end DAC :)

PS.
Your English is fine (I am not a native English speaker as well).
 
Last edited:

barrows

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I have not yet done any direct comparisons with listening tests, but I have been enjoying listening to the D-90. I would suggest that anyone doing listening tests of DACs do so with rigorous level matching, as I find the actual audible differences between good and great DACs can be very small. I do level matched comparisons by the following procedure:

First, choose one track for the comparison. This track should be well recorded, with at least some acoustic instruments, and some well recorded voice. Also, a track with good imaging helps as well. Make sure there are some acoustic high frequency instruments like cymbals and/or bells/chimes. And some deep low frequencies with details, like large drums, well recorded synth bass, and well recorded acoustic bass.
Play the track on DAC #1, and decide on a good reference level. Then play a pink noise track and measure the output of the DAC with an AC volt meter. Now play the pink noise on DAC #2 and adjust its level with the pink noise track to match that of DAC #1. (This method assumes using the volume controls in the DAC, if using a preamp, you will have to make a note of the correct volume setting which produces equal measured output from each DAC). Now make your comparisons, never touching the volume controls with the reference track. I prefer not to do "blind" testing, but I know folks on this forum would demand that you also test blind. If you would like to test blind, I would suggest first testing sighted, and learning as much as you can about the sonic differences first, and then go forward with blinded testing for confirmation (or not). I find testing blind introduces a stress factor which makes deep listening more challenging, but some appear to have overcome these difficulties-I prefer to train myself to be immune to biases rather than trying to overcome the induced stress of blinded testing, to each his own, but I suspect I will not post any results here of listening tests which are sighted, as the level of forum noise will rise with such testing, obscuring any real observations.

Anyone else have any tips on doing listening tests for DACs?
 

Nybto

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Yes, when you come to a conclusion, challenge it - yourself. Try the whole thing again the next day, from scratch. And again. If you are absolutely sure, test it blind!

By the way, does that irritating bar code sticker on the side come off okay?
 

VeerK

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Yes, when you come to a conclusion, challenge it - yourself. Try the whole thing again the next day, from scratch. And again. If you are absolutely sure, test it blind!

By the way, does that irritating bar code sticker on the side come off okay?

I haven’t had time to try it, but you can try Goo gone for any residue
 

BDWoody

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-I prefer to train myself to be immune to biases

I am working on flying myself to the moon. I bet we both have equal success.

I will not post any results here of listening tests which are sighted, as the level of forum noise will rise with such testing,

That would definitely raise the noise level...
 

rebbiputzmaker

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I am working on flying myself to the moon. I bet we both have equal success.



That would definitely raise the noise level...
Absolutely, why in the would we want to have reasonable intelligent discussion...
 

rebbiputzmaker

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I have not yet done any direct comparisons with listening tests, but I have been enjoying listening to the D-90. I would suggest that anyone doing listening tests of DACs do so with rigorous level matching, as I find the actual audible differences between good and great DACs can be very small. I do level matched comparisons by the following procedure:

First, choose one track for the comparison. This track should be well recorded, with at least some acoustic instruments, and some well recorded voice. Also, a track with good imaging helps as well. Make sure there are some acoustic high frequency instruments like cymbals and/or bells/chimes. And some deep low frequencies with details, like large drums, well recorded synth bass, and well recorded acoustic bass.
Play the track on DAC #1, and decide on a good reference level. Then play a pink noise track and measure the output of the DAC with an AC volt meter. Now play the pink noise on DAC #2 and adjust its level with the pink noise track to match that of DAC #1. (This method assumes using the volume controls in the DAC, if using a preamp, you will have to make a note of the correct volume setting which produces equal measured output from each DAC). Now make your comparisons, never touching the volume controls with the reference track. I prefer not to do "blind" testing, but I know folks on this forum would demand that you also test blind. If you would like to test blind, I would suggest first testing sighted, and learning as much as you can about the sonic differences first, and then go forward with blinded testing for confirmation (or not). I find testing blind introduces a stress factor which makes deep listening more challenging, but some appear to have overcome these difficulties-I prefer to train myself to be immune to biases rather than trying to overcome the induced stress of blinded testing, to each his own, but I suspect I will not post any results here of listening tests which are sighted, as the level of forum noise will rise with such testing, obscuring any real observations.

Anyone else have any tips on doing listening tests for DACs?
What you say makes a great deal of sense, I agree with your thought process and how you go about listening. I try similar usually with music I am familiar with. Certain recordings, microphones used etc. have sonic attributes with can be noticed during critical listening. An instrument I also find very useful for critical listening is the vibraphone. Very familiar with it spent a lot of time listening to live music And the vibes have a certain unique sonic signature which is not always easy to properly reproduce.
 
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