Subwoofers with Parametric EQ

[SimpleTheater]

I'm curious about three things (plus a bonus question) that probably warrant there own separate posts.

1) How important is it to get EQ built into your subwoofer

2) Which subs have P-EQ built in? I know Rythmic and SVS have subwoofers with P-EQ. Very interesting to me is that SVS has an app so you don't have to keep getting behind the sub to make changes. This is actually quite helpful in my situation where the subs will be difficult to move (and they're massive if I get the one's I want).

3) How important is it to get two subs? Does a third make sense, or even a fourth?

Bonus: With a budget of $4k, a 16 x 33 room, what would you buy?

 

[BDWoody]

Some Genelec subs combined with their software might be worth looking at. I just picked up a 7261a, and am trying to figure out all that stuff, but they've got some slick features.

https://www.genelec.com/7370a

 

[MZKM]

It’s not important if your system has room correction/DSP.

The more subs the better, as they reduce severity of room modes. This also makes the inclusion of PEQ adjustments less important.

While I think Rythmik makes better subs for the money, the 3 Digital PEQ’s for the SVS subs is very attractive if you don’t have room correction/DSP. So, I would probably lean that way, dual SB16-Ultra’s is like $3700.

Measurements:
https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/svs-sb16-ultra/measurements

 

[Willem]

The standalone parametric eq systems tend to be more sophisticated than the systems built into subwoofers, so I would go for that. Research has shown that two subwoofers are much better than one, that three are not much better than two and that four are better than three. So the best combination is four smallish subwoofers plus dsp room eq, for the smoothest response over the widest listening position. One option would be the Audiokinesis Swarm system, combined with external room eq., but many other subs will be fine too. As for external dsp room eq, I have been very pleased with the easy to use DSpeaker Antimode 8033 that equalizes only the subs and is very easy to use. If you want more ambitious equalization that also deals with the lower frequencies of the main speakers, the miniDSP SHD in its two versions and using Dirac may well be your best bet.
All this of course assumes that the objective is sound quality rather than massive slam to reproduce nuclear explosions. For that, a single mega sized equalized sub is better, but you have to sit in one listening position and not move around. The reason is that dsp room eq is very effective, but quite localized. So if you can first smoothen the response with multiple subs you will have created a much larger listening area with smooth bass, after which the addition of room eq is an excellent bonus.

 

[SimpleTheater]

The Rythmik F18 in black oak finish, because they discount for 2 units, costs $3,126 shipped. Add in the DSpeaker Antimode 8033 and I'm at $3,526. The SVS16's are $3,999. Are they worth the additional $800?

Additionally the Rythmik ported F18's (FV18) are $3,450. What is the advantage to ported? Thanks.

 

[MZKM]

Dual SB16 Ultra’s is $3800, so a $200 bundle discount.

If you are getting the AntiMode, do Rythmik.

Rythmik F18 measurements
Rythmik FV18 measurements

 

[igufi]

Re: question #2, I believe Elac’s 3000-series subs come with an app that allows you to set eq and phase with your phone. It will also do the calibration for you with the phone’s mic.

 

[Ron Texas]

SVS SB-2000 Pro and SB-3000 have 3 band parametric EQ. Rythmik L12 has a single band. I don't think it is necessary because the EQ can be done elsewhere in the chain.

 

[Worth Davis]

Most systems advocate the use of offboard PEQ and correction via Audyssey, Dirac, and others. In more complex subwoofer builds most use a minidsp to correct multiple subs. I think the only feature used in subs is with 2 channel and high level inputs for your speakers to inject the subwoofer into your signal chain with a tube preamp.

I own multiple SVS products, they arent quite the bang for the buck they used to be, but they are great subs. I think you get more bang for the dollar from PSA, Ryhtmik, Monoprice, and DIY subwoofers.

I have 6 large subwoofers...I think 2 serious subwoofers is a great purchase point - basically get a pair of the biggest from any of the above (or JTR, Seaton, HSU as well) and work on placement.

FYI https://data-bass.com/#/?_k=t2qvax

Is like ASR review for subs - they have some crazy DIY in there as well.

 

[Worth Davis]

Is your room sealed or open? Ceiling heights? Sealed room can be ROCKED while a living room open thing is much hard to pressurize in my experience. Recommendation - pair of JTR 2400 or the like for a little over your budget...

 

[raindance]

Single band parametric built into the sub is a good start for room eq for an all-analog system. For example, my room has large mode at 46 Hz and then another lesser one near 100Hz. Only the 46Hz one bothers me. However, I had to measure the room to find this out. 3 bands could be better, it depends on you. But you can't guess or do it by ear very well. I find digital sub-only correction causes a delay that requires the sub to be moved closer to me and I'm not a fan of the antimode or minidsp products at all. An analog parametric has no processing delay and typically doesn't cause limited headroom (which digital products can cause).

I'd suggest that this primitive room EQ, single or 3 band analog parametric, be used for a single sub for one sweet spot or you'll be at it until you retire before you get the frequency and phase for multiple subs dialed in .

I'm a believer that the simplest way to EQ multiple subs is using a receiver with something like Audyssey.

That's my 2c worth. Please don't try to sell me on mini DSP or Dspeaker products, you'll be wasting your breath (or fingertips in this case).

 

[Worth Davis]

Raindance, you ARE supposed adjust delays for distance and processing with minidsp...not trying to sell you but its literally the first step in correct setup is figuring out channel delays for all channels

 

[SimpleTheater]

Is your room sealed or open? Ceiling heights? Sealed room can be ROCKED while a living room open thing is much hard to pressurize in my experience. Recommendation - pair of JTR 2400 or the like for a little over your budget...

My room is sealed, not even a window. Ceiling starts at 8' on the sides to 11' in the middle. I will take a look at the JTR 2400's. Thanks.

 

[raindance]

Raindance, you ARE supposed adjust delays for distance and processing with minidsp...not trying to sell you but its literally the first step in correct setup is figuring out channel delays for all channels

I understand all this, I'm talking about subwoofer only EQ where the rest of the system is analog and un-equalized.

 

[Deleted member 65]

My (discontinued) Elac Sub 2050 has both Automatic Eq as well as manual PEq. Automatic Eq works really well using an Android/IOS phone.

Auto EQ
Utilizing the ELAC SUB Control 2.0 app and your smartphone’s microphone, the SUB3010, SUB3030, and SUB3070 subwoofers will automatically equalize to your room’s characteristics using a 12-band parametric equalizer. Manual adjustment is available as well.

 

[raindance]

I understand all this, I'm talking about subwoofer only EQ where the rest of the system is analog and un-equalized.

Plus you can't do negative delay

 

[Willem]

The latency of the Antimode 8033 is only 2.7 ms. You will not notice that. I think the Antimode 8033 is the easiest and most user friendly high quality subwoofer only room eq system on the market. It is really rather more sophisticated and with many more filters than any built in dsp eq that I have seen (but I may have misssed one). If subwoofer eq is all you need you cannot do any better, and it keeps your options open with regard to subwoofer choice.
Of course, if your main speakers extend quite far down you may want to go for a system that also equalizes the bottom end of the main speakers, although I would recommend to limit such equalization to at most the region below 500 Hz, and perhaps even lower.
Why are you insisting to remain in the analogue domain?

 

[Chrispy]

For that budget I'd go diy. Easy enough to buy something like a minidsp for that part of it, even if you buy a sub.

 

[Webninja]

I recently completed a remodel, and pre-wired for 4 subs. I have read some articles that 4 less expensive subs would offer better in-room response than two more expensive subs. Lots of variables there, plus the room itself, but i can’t help wonder if 4 $1,000 subs would be better than 2 $2k subs?

The suggestions here for brands are spot on, Rythmik, SVS, PSA, JTR. I have the Rythmik L12 x 4 penciled in, but still researching.

 

[Willem]

I would definitely go for four $1000 subs (or a bit less to have some budget for an Antimode 8033). What do you want to listen to, and what are the main speakers?