• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Tannoy System 600 Speaker Review

OP
amirm

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
44,596
Likes
239,641
Location
Seattle Area
And yes, there is some nationalism and a clear bias towards anything out of the Harman group of companies. I am absolutely flabbergasted you would say otherwise. A casual visitor to ASR would think (Sidney) Harman invented High Fidelity and Floyd Toole was the only person to write a book on audio.
Dr. Toole hasn't written a book on "audio." Have you not even bothered reading the thing before criticizing it?

There are a million people with opinions about speakers and sound reproduction. But none, not a single one, has studied and importantly contributed all of his knowledge to the industry as well as Dr. Toole has done. He has earned that status. You should be lucky to meet him one day to see what a great person he is in addition to wealth of knowledge he has. Whether as part of NRC or Harman, everything he and his team has learned has been put in public domain.

Dr. Toole's accolades are impeccable. Here is his AES profile:

1583816630646.png


And no, there is nothing being praised here that has anything to do with Sidney Harman. You have to be pretty confused to think that is who we talk about or praise in these discussions. Or Harman as a company. This is an audio science site and naturally we are a big fan of science. And so is Dr. Toole.

You have some other research you want to put forward, go right ahead. Otherwise, don't just sit there and complain.
 

Thomas savage

Grand Contributor
The Watchman
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
10,260
Likes
16,305
Location
uk, taunton
Tannoy drive by..

it's possible there's something not right with these speakers and another one should be looked at .

It's also possible tannoy sold out long ago and not a lot remains of their past glory . Especially not the expertise that forged it.

A lot of these ' brands ' trade on just that historical glory and are bought sold and gutted accordingly. It's a bit sad but I don't think making a definite link between the tannoy of the 60s and 70s and the company as it is now is realistic.

That's not to say there's no one there now that might know what they are doing , all we have to go on is a measurement of a single speaker.

It's hard to condemn completely or enthuse in their defence with any certainty.

Maybe they could send another speaker and we could check it out and chat about it with people who actually know the situation wrt tannoy. That would seem more rewarding than our current trajectory.
 
OP
amirm

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
44,596
Likes
239,641
Location
Seattle Area
it's possible there's something not right with these speakers and another one should be looked at .
I opened it. A couple of inductors have come loose in the crossover due to glue getting hard and losing adhesion. They are making electrical connection though so there is no failure in the crossover. A couple of speaker spades are bit loose but unlikely the cause of shelving in highs. I am asking the owner if he wants to refurbish it or wants me to mend it. I don't expect it to do any better though.

Maybe they could send another speaker and we could check it out.
Indeed. Anyone who wants to stand up for Tannoy can send in another unit to test.
 

QMuse

Major Contributor
Joined
Feb 20, 2020
Messages
3,124
Likes
2,785
What you’re correctly observing is lack of compensation for “baffle step” in the woofer crossover.



As someone with some experience measuring loudspeakers, I take claimed crossover points with a grain of salt. Hence “alleged.” Note that my measurements of Tannoy XT 8F showed a crossover point (as I see it - this isn’t black and white) different from spec.

Well, I haven't measured as many speakers as you did but I know a thing or two of crossover design. If crossover is specced at 1800Hz but measurement showed it to be at 1500Hz that is a huge issue probably caused by using cheap crossover elements that are out of spec.
 

thewas

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 15, 2020
Messages
6,873
Likes
16,838
Personally I haven't seen ever any Tannoy model with superb 3rd party measurements (if I am wrong please correct me with examples), especially their high end old school legacy models measure and sound quite "special", which of course doesn't necessarily mean that someone who likes them shouldn't. This is partially also due to their "old school" implementation of their coaxial drivers which in this care won't never have the measurement perfection of a modern KEF or Genelec coaxial driver.
 

QMuse

Major Contributor
Joined
Feb 20, 2020
Messages
3,124
Likes
2,785
Well, I haven't measured as many speakers as you did but I know a thing or two of crossover design. If crossover is specced at 1800Hz but measurement showed it to be at 1500Hz that is a huge issue probably caused by using cheap crossover elements that are out of spec.

And here it is, copied from the link @Vuki jsut posted:

Capture.JPG
 

Sancus

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 30, 2018
Messages
2,926
Likes
7,636
Location
Canada
Maybe they could send another speaker and we could check it out and chat about it with people who actually know the situation wrt tannoy. That would seem more rewarding than our current trajectory.

Definitely, that's why I asked about measuring one of their just-released new coaxial monitors. Sadly, I'm not invested enough in that curiosity to spend money on it!
 

tomtoo

Major Contributor
Joined
Nov 20, 2019
Messages
3,712
Likes
4,777
Location
Germany
I dont care a sh** about Rolex or Timex.
It's easy if Rolex tells there Watch goes only +-1 min wrong a day thats it. Now measuring it 20 yeaers later and it goes +-30 min a day wrong makes me interested. Is something broken? Or was it always like this and Rolex showed wrong meassurements?
 

Sal1950

Grand Contributor
The Chicago Crusher
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 1, 2016
Messages
14,168
Likes
16,877
Location
Central Fl
It's also possible tannoy sold out long ago and not a lot remains of their past glory . Especially not the expertise that forged it.

A lot of these ' brands ' trade on just that historical glory and are bought sold and gutted accordingly. It's a bit sad but I don't think making a definite link between the tannoy of the 60s and 70s and the company as it is now is realistic.
Now your getting down to the facts Thomas. So many of the grand ole names of US & UK HiFi have been bought out by Japanese, Chinese, and now Korean money and are milking as much profit as possible out of the honored brands with little concern over any link of the company to their own national pride. If Harman/JBL build crappy products and eventually fail, oh well that's just some ole US company, same for Tannoy/UK. All the while Japanese and Korean companies like Sony and Samsung are building SOTA products in the big markets they are interested in. (where the money is). And where are the premier US TV builders like RCA and Zenith now? (the quality goes in, before the name goes on) GONE. As will be all those grand old names of HiFi sometime in the future. Do you think the Asians bought these companies to build on the reputation of the western brands? No, they bought only to make some short term profits off the name and then let them pass into history.
Anyone look at the auto market recently.
 

Mawclaw

Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 20, 2019
Messages
69
Likes
133
Location
The ATL
Chill on the "Asians" stuff. Every market ever has done this.

You can aquire a brand/company only for the name and consumer confidence. You can choose to continue on faithfully or raid the name for profit. Imo Sennheiser did a huge disservice to AKG when they bought it and that is a German company. It is not an Asian thing- it's a business thing.
 

Sal1950

Grand Contributor
The Chicago Crusher
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 1, 2016
Messages
14,168
Likes
16,877
Location
Central Fl
It is not an Asian thing- it's a business thing.
Where are you located?
If you don't protect your home nations financial interests who will?
 

Thomas savage

Grand Contributor
The Watchman
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 24, 2016
Messages
10,260
Likes
16,305
Location
uk, taunton
Where are you located?
If you don't protect your home nations financial interests who will?
I'm sure there's forums for this sort of thing. Can we leave political ideology at the door please

Cheers
 

Sal1950

Grand Contributor
The Chicago Crusher
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 1, 2016
Messages
14,168
Likes
16,877
Location
Central Fl

jhaider

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 5, 2016
Messages
2,865
Likes
4,655
And? How has [the MUSIC group, i.e. Behringer, acquisition] affected Tannoy? More resources and building on their creds or otherwise? No guesses please.

I've been keeping up because I have a soft spot for Tannoy. I don't know what this background information means and don't have an opinion one way or the other, but here it is.

Prior to the Behringer acquisition, Tannoy designed an all new Dual Concentric coax, Omnimagnet, and obtained a patent for it.


Omnimagnet replaced Tannoy's previous coax design, Tulip, which dates from the 1990s. The System 600 Amir tested here had a Tulip coax. Here's a figure I made for my Revolution XT 8F review that summarizes the differences between Omnimagnet, Tulip, as well as Tannoy's original "Pepperpot" Dual Concentric.

Figure 5 - XT 8F 3 Duals.jpg


Ca. 2015 Tannoy introduced an Omnimagnet-based hifi speaker series ("Revolution XT") and CI (in wall, in ceiling, outdoor) lines. Based on my measurements of an older but refurbished (which mostly means ferrofluid residue was cleaned out out of the tweeter gap and new fluid added) 8" Tulip studio monitor, 8" Omnimagnet had wider midrange dispersion. That can be seen in the comparative polars in my review. Tannoy's website does not list any Omnimagnet hifi, in wall, or outdoor models as current. Only the ceiling speakers (CMS _03DC) remain. Tannoy even appear to have reintroduced their Tulip in wall and outdoor lines. For home hifi Tannoy are down to a series that looks like Q Acoustics clones, some active Tulip speakers that may be holdovers from the 1990s, and a Klipsch-style nostalgia series.

The new "Gold Monitor" series also returns to Tulip, and even has a cutaway of Tulip as artwork along with the old fashioned Tannoy logo. Monitor Gold 7 is the closest modern equivalent to the tested System 600.

For further background, some of Tannoy's engineering staff left after the Behringer acquisition. Omnimagnet's named inventor is elsewhere. Tannoy's former head R&D executive, Dr. Paul Mills and others left to found Fyne Audio, where they developed their own new "IsoFlare" coax. IsoFlare is substantially Tannoy Tulip, but simplified: radial vanes molded into the walls to replace the intermediate tube in the phase plug.

cutaway-isoflare.png


No, the forum members rely on what you demonstrate and what you measure. Or what you choose not to measure.

That is a serious, and inaccurate accusation. The way this place works is, members send Amir random stuff, and he also buys a lot of stuff. What he buys is up to him and out of the scope of the question. But unless you have evidence that Amir has chosen not to test something that someone sent in a manner that introduces a question of bias into the proceeding, if you understand the implications of what you wrote you should probably delete your account.

I don't know what you have sent him. I expect nothing, for reasonable logitstical reasons. I sent Amir a box of random electronics to measure, and all of it was posted. One of the items did not measure especially well, but was something his company deploys for practical reasons. I inquired prior to sending if he wanted to measure those items due to the potential appearance of conflict of interest, but to his credit he said yes, and posted warts and all results.

Imo Sennheiser did a huge disservice to AKG when they bought it and that is a German company. It is not an Asian thing- it's a business thing.

Harman, not Sennheser, purchased AKG.
 

Tom C

Major Contributor
Joined
Jun 16, 2019
Messages
1,504
Likes
1,371
Location
Wisconsin, USA
Mr. jhaider, may I ask, does the coaxial driver in my Definition DC10A’s use ferrofluid? If so, when and how should I expect to replace it?
 
Top Bottom