• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Ascend Sierra 2 Speaker Review

TimVG

Major Contributor
Joined
Sep 16, 2019
Messages
1,181
Likes
2,573
Attached 2EX spin.

I'm not sure why you can't take me at my word that I prefer the S2-EX over the Revel F206 (I made an entire thread on it at AVSForum: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-s...essions-ascend-sierra-2-ex-vs-revel-f206.html ) without coming up with reasons like expectation bias or your first comment which dealt with how it looked.

If it had been the other way around (my preference of Revel over Ascend), I doubt you'd be commenting to try to justify why my preference is invalid.

I take do take you at your word, whatever the reason may be. I'm just saying we don't yet know what the 2EX measures like from a third party POV, but who knows. I own the F206 and in fact I would agree with you on the F206 treble, which is why I made my own measurements of them and found room for improvement. It is not a perfect speaker nor am I claiming it to be. I'm just saying sighted tests are by default, flawed. I'm not arguing with your preference, I'm simply putting it into perspective.
 

Xulonn

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
1,828
Likes
6,311
Location
Boquete, Chiriqui, Panama
Did not perform well during Amir's testing?

Apparently, Ascend thinks it did not perform as expected - but I agree that the discrepancy is a small one. I changed my post to reflect that.

I recently considered buying speakers with RAAL tweeters, but decided that the price difference was to much considering any increased appreciation I might get from them. I lived with - and thoroughly enjoyed - loudspeakers with ribbon tweeters for a number of years - ESS Heils in the 1970's and Apogee Ribbon Monitors in the early 2000's. I also owned horn midrange and tweeter systems - a big custom Jensen monaural speaker in 1958-1961, a pair of custom JBL S8 system after the Heils, and Klipsch Forte II's in the living room while the Apogees were in the dining room).

To me, different speakers are like different concert halls and live music venues - many are good, but they can be quite different from each other acoustically. Like many here at ASR, I prefer accurate and transparent electronics, and am aware that speakers and room interactions are the most subjective aspects of audio. Although I do plan to soon do lower frequencies DSP soon just to see what it's all about.
 

617

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 18, 2019
Messages
2,404
Likes
5,296
Location
Somerville, MA
I am very interested in the "durability" of consumer goods in this age when everything is deemed to be disposable. There are audio components that age well, and many that do not. And discussions of that aspect of audio is one of the main reasons I enjoy @restorer-john 's contributions to this forum. I play with, enjoy, and do not expect much from my cheap ChiFi DACs and amps, but ended up throwing two dead Topping PA3 Class-D amps in the trash last year. They are not much more than toys, although they can product surprisingly good sound. However, my main system contains a 27 year old Classé Model Seventy 70wpc Class AB stereo power amplifier that just tested like new - with the original PS capacitors.

I will follow this aspect of the Ascend speaker discussions with interest. Are they reliable and durable - or not?

I would be very interested in this topic. The only data we ever have about loudspeakers in the best case scenario is from units before purchase, and most likely not your unit. Modern loudspeakers shouldn't vary too much over time, but I'd like to see some data. Woofer suspensions seem pretty durable, foam surrounds are rare, and drift in capacitor value shouldn't screw things up too much, but for delicate HF transducers like these ribbons? Who knows. It's an incredibly thin piece of metal attached to a brutally strong magnet, a lot can go wrong.
 

maty

Major Contributor
Joined
Dec 12, 2017
Messages
4,596
Likes
3,161
Location
Tarragona (Spain)
I'm not sure why you can't take me at my word that I prefer the S2-EX over the Revel F206...

The first time I saw the graphics I was amazed, years ago. The CSD is fantastic.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...measurements-by-danny-richie.8840/post-263312

Ascend Sierra 2-EX RAAL ribbons, CSD

index.php


http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/SRM2EX/srm2exmeas.html

But of course, if one day they are measured here, will the measurements coincide? Now I have doubts that I did not have before.
 

goldark

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 20, 2020
Messages
205
Likes
360
Apparently, Ascend thinks it did not perform as expected - but I agree that the discrepancy is a small one. I changed my post to reflect that.

I recently considered buying speakers with RAAL tweeters, but decided that the price difference was to much considering any increased appreciation I might get from them. I lived with - and thoroughly enjoyed - loudspeakers with ribbon tweeters for a number of years - ESS Heils in the 1970's and Apogee Ribbon Monitors in the early 2000's. I also owned horn midrange and tweeter systems - a big custom Jensen monaural speaker in 1958-1961, a pair of custom JBL S8 system after the Heils, and Klipsch Forte II's in the living room while the Apogees were in the dining room).

To me, different speakers are like different concert halls and live music venues - many are good, but they can be quite different from each other acoustically. Like many here at ASR, I prefer accurate and transparent electronics, and am aware that speakers and room interactions are the most subjective aspects of audio. Although I do plan to soon do lower frequencies DSP soon just to see what it's all about.

I definitely recommend listening to the RAAL at some point. It has a unique sound when the recording calls for it. Besides Ascend, Salk and Selah both make speakers using a RAAL ribbon. I've never heard the Be tweeter in Revel's higher end lineups, but I suspect it might have a similar quality.

On another note, I think posters piling up on either side should take the review for what it is - a decently good review, and "good" was used multiple times by Amir, himself. Some Ascend fans will see any reported imperfection as a possible slight against their speaker and I've seen some posts over-blowing the imperfections as reason to avoid the company and its products altogether. Amir's doing a great service and we should just the data for what it is, without it affecting our enjoyment of our own speakers.
 

database

Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2020
Messages
53
Likes
54
Location
VA
I think the point he was trying to make is that you can't guarantee that a used, borrowed speaker on loan from a member is up to spec/not defective/functioning as it should like you can if you had gotten it from the manufacturer.

Amir's measurements clearly differs from his (rising response in the treble vs. rolled off response in Amir's, which he actually prefers). There are a few logical conclusions you can make from this, and one possibility is the ribbon is not functioning as it should.
It's known that the smaller RAAL ribbons in the Sierra 2 are fragile, so they ship with magnetic boards to cover the tweeter to protect it during shipping (they look like this https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4710/25087053627_18393d2811_c.jpg). Did these Sierra 2s include the magnetic boards when they arrived? @amirm
 

goldark

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 20, 2020
Messages
205
Likes
360

Xulonn

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
1,828
Likes
6,311
Location
Boquete, Chiriqui, Panama
Attached 2EX spin.

I'm not sure why you can't take me at my word that I prefer the S2-EX over the Revel F206 (I made an entire thread on it at AVSForum: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-s...essions-ascend-sierra-2-ex-vs-revel-f206.html ) without coming up with reasons like expectation bias or your first comment which dealt with how it looked.

If it had been the other way around (my preference of Revel over Ascend), I doubt you'd be commenting to try to justify why my preference is invalid.

I'm sorry, I can't find a description of your double-blind testing setup and methods that are necessary to eliminate expectation bias. Do you have a link?

Not necessary - sorry for the implication. Preferences, as long as not promoted as definitively "better" or "accurate" do not require justification. However, double blind listening tests can be fun and fascinating as they do indeed, uncover sighted listening biases.
 
Last edited:

goldark

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 20, 2020
Messages
205
Likes
360
I'm sorry, I can't find a description of your double-blind testing setup and methods that are necessary to eliminate expectation bias. Do you have a link?

Sorry, I don't, and you knew that since I stated outright that it wasn't a blind test. Even without the scientific rigor, I believed my impressions were still useful to some on that forum. You're obviously free to entirely disregard the post and my preferences without the added snark, however.

The point of the post was merely to counter the preference model which had multiple speakers that I've owned in complete opposite order from how I would rank and "prefer" them. To me, a preference equation that actually suggests the opposite of my in-person experience with the same speakers is something I felt was worth bringing up, even without double-blind testing every permutation of the speakers.
 

Xulonn

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
1,828
Likes
6,311
Location
Boquete, Chiriqui, Panama
you knew that since I stated outright that it wasn't a blind test.

Actually I didn't know, because I often read quickly and skim over posts, and did not notice the blind testing disclaimer. Realizing my impolite nsarky statement, I posted my retraction, actually before you posted your response. Like you, I have owned and enjoyed many types of loudspeakers, but I always admitted that my listening impressions preferences were subjective and biased, and they have never been confirmed via double-blind tested.

Indeed, there is no way you can eliminate expectation bias in sighted testing - the human brain does not allow it.

And yet, I find that the reputation of RAAL tweeters still appeal to me. Unfortunately, I dislike rectangular, square-edged speakers ugly and boring, so I am not considering the Ascend line. (Says the guy who owns a pair of rectangular, square-edged Paradigm Atom Monitors. :rolleyes:)
 

goldark

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 20, 2020
Messages
205
Likes
360
Actually I didn't know, because I often read quickly and skim over posts, and did not notice the blind testing disclaimer. Realizing my impolite nsarky statement, I posted my retraction, actually before you posted your response. Like you, I have owned and enjoyed many types of loudspeakers, but I always admitted that my listening impressions preferences were subjective and biased, and they have never been confirmed via double-blind tested.

Indeed, there is no way you can eliminate expectation bias in sighted testing - the human brain does not allow it.

And yet, I find that the reputation of RAAL tweeters still appeal to me. Unfortunately, I dislike rectangular, square-edged speakers ugly and boring, so I am not considering the Ascend line. (Says the guy who owns a pair of rectangular, square-edged Paradigm Atom Monitors. :rolleyes:)

My apologies. I was too quick to respond and did not see the edit in your post.

You're correct - we are all subject to biases and the field of psycho acoustics is fascinating. As objective as I try to be, obviously I can't eliminate all biases. However, there is one reason why I haven't blind tested all my speakers. Admittedly, I'm too lazy and it would take up too much of my time to properly set up a scientifically rigorous setup. After a long day, I'd rather just sit, listen, and enjoy. I have no issue with others dismissing my impressions as sighted, biased listening tests - because that's what they are. But it's still interesting to read and share such experiences. In the end, I'm selfishly just listening for myself.
 

Xulonn

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 27, 2018
Messages
1,828
Likes
6,311
Location
Boquete, Chiriqui, Panama
My apologies. I was too quick to respond and did not see the edit in your post.

You're correct - we are all subject to biases and the field of psycho acoustics is fascinating. As objective as I try to be, obviously I can't eliminate all biases. However, there is one reason why I haven't blind tested all my speakers. Admittedly, I'm too lazy and it would take up too much of my time to properly set up a scientifically rigorous setup. After a long day, I'd rather just sit, listen, and enjoy. I have no issue with others dismissing my impressions as sighted, biased listening tests - because that's what they are. But it's still interesting to read and share such experiences. In the end, I'm selfishly just listening for myself.

It's interesting how we can get into squabbles that are superficial and peripheral - and then end up discovering that we actually agree strongly on the fundamentals. What I find interesting about these speaker reviews is that we can find out about the actual "sound" differences between speakers, and possibly learn about the physical sonic characteristics that define the speakers that we like or have liked in the past - or dislike.

(I am actually considering another speaker - a small floor-stander from Focal that is not even on the radar here at ASR - but that is a subject for a different thread.)
 

spacevector

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 3, 2019
Messages
553
Likes
1,003
Location
Bayrea
@amirm Any comments on the audibility of the tweeter distortion? 7% HD seems quite large - do you think it might be audible and were you able to deduce it during the listening test? Your informal listening impressions do not mention it so I am curious.
 

Xyrium

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Aug 3, 2018
Messages
574
Likes
493
I can't even count how many times I've considered these. Honestly, as others have said, we'd really have to nitpick to find fault with these. Of course, at the price, they really are among some tough competition. I'd like to see them drop the price by about 300 to get competitive.

I actually believe the lack of vertical dispersion would work in my favor in my current setup as well. So, one has to read through the review, as some "deficiencies" may actually be positive attributes, based on your listening space.

Another great, and revealing review Amir, thanks!
 

Stump909

Member
Joined
Apr 9, 2018
Messages
80
Likes
53
I can't even count how many times I've considered these. Honestly, as others have said, we'd really have to nitpick to find fault with these. Of course, at the price, they really are among some tough competition. I'd like to see them drop the price by about 300 to get competitive.

I actually believe the lack of vertical dispersion would work in my favor in my current setup as well. So, one has to read through the review, as some "deficiencies" may actually be positive attributes, based on your listening space.

Another great, and revealing review Amir, thanks!

I mean the search for perfection is never ending, right? I see the measurements, and sans the resonance (which oddly doesnt appear on the waterfall), I think people are over exaggerating the issues. They look remarkably good and personally I don't see the vertical dispersion as a negative. Isn't proper placement the fist step of any setup. A 40 degree cone is huge at the right distance.
 
Last edited:

ahender

Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2020
Messages
31
Likes
12
I can't even count how many times I've considered these. Honestly, as others have said, we'd really have to nitpick to find fault with these. Of course, at the price, they really are among some tough competition. I'd like to see them drop the price by about 300 to get competitive.

I actually believe the lack of vertical dispersion would work in my favor in my current setup as well. So, one has to read through the review, as some "deficiencies" may actually be positive attributes, based on your listening space.

Another great, and revealing review Amir, thanks!

The current B-stock Sierra-2 speakers are A-stock speakers. The Sierra-2 is being phased out. Current B-stock price per pair is $1138.
 

Bear123

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Nov 27, 2019
Messages
796
Likes
1,370
For people who need a small speaker they can put on or in a bookshelf, I suppose this speaker is an option. However, for those who put them on stands, hence taking up the same floorspace as a floor stander, why not buy floor standing speakers for the same price as these. Actually cheaper once you buy stands for them to balance precariously on?
 

astr0b0y

Active Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2016
Messages
273
Likes
201
Location
Melbourne Australia
For people who need a small speaker they can put on or in a bookshelf, I suppose this speaker is an option. However, for those who put them on stands, hence taking up the same floorspace as a floor stander, why not buy floor standing speakers for the same price as these. Actually cheaper once you buy stands for them to balance precariously on?
I brought them as a stepping stone to Ascends tower’s. The plan was (before illness and joblessness!) to buy towers down the line and move the Sierra-2s to surround channels.
 
Top Bottom