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Ascend Sierra 2 Speaker Review

maty

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Official measurements are excellent. The independent no. I feel cheated.
 

Stump909

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Official measurements are excellent. The independent no. I feel cheated.

The only measurements being discussed here are ASR's...Again, you seem to be jumping on all bad data points as fact and any counters as irrelevant.
 

tuga

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I had run them but forgotten to post. Just added it to the review:

index.php

This kind of centered single-point perspective doesn't provide a clear reading.
Is it difficult to change to a different view?
A cabinet or cavalier projection would be preferable but even just rotating the plot would read a lot better:

3z76Q.png


TRF-SPL-Cumulative-spectral-decay-1.jpg
 

Koeitje

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I don't understand the use of bamboo, can somebody explain to me why you wouldn't just use MDF (or HDF)?
 

StevenEleven

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This isn't wrong, but you also have to be realistic. In the case of the BS22's, even crossed at 80hz, their 4" woofer is never going to keep up with the sub(s) when you crank the volume up. They have an advantage in the preference rating because max SPL without seeing frequency response linearity issues isn't accounted for in the formula. I could be wrong, but I would think that it's cheaper/easier to make a speaker that doesn't play very loudly have a flat on-axis frequency response in a more limited range. That's not even taking into account how loud the tweeter can play without distortion.

The Pioneer BS-22s are $118 a pair, or less than $100 a pair on a good day. That is well less than one-tenth of the price of the Ascends. There are going to be compromises. I cross them over at 120 dB. It just sounds better that way. Whatever needs to be done up to that frequency, the subs do it better. It’s very obvious. What the BS-22s do above that frequency, they do exceedingly well.

At $200 a pair instead of a $118 a pair, for a good set of passive JBLs, I suspect you could do much better. We just have to find those JBLs (or maybe PSB?s)? I want to upgrade, I’ll pay good money for it, but I have been concerned for years I would just upgrade to something worse, and it appears my doubts were well-founded.

The BS-22s and two subwoofers play plenty, plenty loud in my house, enough so that at max volume it would be totally unreasonable to anyone in my family. I mean to our sensibilities it goes just joltingly, shockingly loud. I have my receiver set to a lower max volume because turning it all the way up accidentally would only shock the dog and probably some family members. We are talking LOUD. I was very happy to see the family crowded around the home theater last night without a thought to SQ, just totally absorbed in the programming. Listening position is 6 to 9 feet away from the speakers, depending on where someone sits.

I keep a decimal meter by my listening position. I was listening to a very wide DR classical recording the other day and the peaks, which I found pretty loud, maxed out at 86 dB c-weighted, and nothing in my system was breaking a sweat. I think that’s about as loud as I would ever get except for just stress testing things a little. I would suggest that when considering trade-offs between power handling and tonal balance folks ask themselves what is more important in their use case. And at the price of the Ascends it should not be a trade-off anyway.

So for the Ascends, I have to agree with those who say they should do better for the price. I would have given them a shrug. Apparently they are “good”? I think @amirm was just a little generous. But before these measurements, how was anyone to know that? That’s the frustrating thing. If there is blame to lay it is with the company, but that skating rink is now closed, at least for them. And maybe they will be incentivized to put out a better product. Let them sing and dance around the problems and puff themselves up, it won‘t change the facts.

Is it so bad or so surprising to opine that they should do better?
 
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Koeitje

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Aesthetics and general stiffness/density. Amir mentions it:
But it still resonates, while I can run my loudspeakers at uncomfortable levels with zero resonance. 22mm MDF with lead bitumen on the inside walls. Outer finish is real wood veneer.
 

SAFETYpin

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After which I just crossed out the Ascend brand. So much difference between official and independent measurements is unacceptable.

Living in Europe (cheaper than in NA) the obvious option is KEF R3 or the previous R300 model (if it is obtained with a great discount). And in columns, also of the same R series, my two cents.

Or KEF Q150 / Q100, with only the 5.25" Uni-Q coaxial, with two subwoofers. Closed or DIY OB from GR-Research (Danny Richie) if big room but not very big.

Updated: The same (two subwoofers) with KEF LS50.


I own Q100 , Sierra2 and Sierra Towers w/ RAAL. I like my Q100 but they're still not as clear sounding and also struggle if you try and play them loud in a medium-small sized space compared to the Sierra2.

I definitely agree the terrible falls off very significantly if you stand up vs on axis with the Sierra2, if you're not planning on staying seated while listening than I'd definitely recommend a different speaker.
 

q3cpma

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I own Q100 , Sierra2 and Sierra Towers w/ RAAL. I like my Q100 but they're still not as clear sounding and also struggle if you try and play them loud in a medium-small sized space compared to the Sierra2.

I definitely agree the terrible falls off very significantly if you stand up vs on axis with the Sierra2, if you're not planning on staying seated while listening than I'd definitely recommend a different speaker.
Does Kef still use a pathetic 1st order crossover like in the Q300? Because otherwise, I'd recommend the Q150 to some people seeking passive speakers.
 

goldark

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I own Q100 , Sierra2 and Sierra Towers w/ RAAL. I like my Q100 but they're still not as clear sounding and also struggle if you try and play them loud in a medium-small sized space compared to the Sierra2.

I definitely agree the terrible falls off very significantly if you stand up vs on axis with the Sierra2, if you're not planning on staying seated while listening than I'd definitely recommend a different speaker.

I've owned many, many speakers including the Kef Q100, BS22, Sierra 2, 2-EX, KEF LS50, Revel F206, Infinity Reference, QA3020, Energy C3, speakers from NHT, Boston, you name it...

Take my subjective impressions for what it's worth, but the 2-EX (successor to the Sierra 2 but shares similar traits) is a step up from all of the above speakers. The Pioneer BS22's are nice for what they are - but it's puzzling to me how they could even compare, sound quality wise. The Pioneers are muddy, dull and less detailed, and scream "low fidelity" in comparison.
 

Xulonn

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but he [Dave Fabrikant ] thinks there's an issue with the ribbon in the speaker that is being measured:

Yet again, a component tested by Amir is "suspected to have problems" after not performing [quite] as well [as expected] during Amir's testing. Does that mean that perhaps many of us out here in the real world of audio consumers have defective products and don't know it? Do many products - even good ones - slip away from their original specs over time? We know that capacitors can decline and fail, as well as speaker cone surrounds, but what is causing these other issues?

If anyone feels up to researching and documenting that factor, a tally of such incidents and suspected incidents could interesting to review and discuss.

Edited to clarify that the performance discrepancy was minor. (And enough to cause not only concern, but yet again, suggestions that Amir's testing might be flawed.)
 
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SAFETYpin

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I've owned many, many speakers including the Kef Q100, BS22, Sierra 2, 2-EX, KEF LS50, Revel F206, Infinity Reference, QA3020, Energy C3, speakers from NHT, Boston, you name it...

Take my subjective impressions for what it's worth, but the 2-EX (successor to the Sierra 2 but shares similar traits) is a step up from all of the above speakers. The Pioneer BS22's are nice for what they are - but it's puzzling to me how they could even compare, sound quality wise. The Pioneers are muddy, dull and less detailed, and scream "low fidelity" in comparison.

I'm very happy to hear that, I've been struggling with the option to upgrade with the 2-EX kits!!!
 

TimVG

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I've owned many, many speakers including the Kef Q100, BS22, Sierra 2, 2-EX, KEF LS50, Revel F206, Infinity Reference, QA3020, Energy C3, speakers from NHT, Boston, you name it...

Take my subjective impressions for what it's worth, but the 2-EX (successor to the Sierra 2 but shares similar traits) is a step up from all of the above speakers. The Pioneer BS22's are nice for what they are - but it's puzzling to me how they could even compare, sound quality wise. The Pioneers are muddy, dull and less detailed, and scream "low fidelity" in comparison.

Reminds me of the Toole presentation on youtube where in a sighted test a "small, plastic sub/sat system" was rated much lower than some beautiful tower speakers, as they could not sound better - yet they did in the blind test.
 

goldark

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Yet again, a component tested by Amir is "suspected to have problems" after not performing well during Amir's testing. Does that mean that perhaps many of us out here in the real world of audio consumers have defective products and don't know it? Do many products - even good ones - slip away from their original specs over time? We know that capacitors can decline and fail, as well as speaker cone surrounds, but what is causing these other issues?

If any feels up to researching and documenting that factor, a tally of such incidents and suspected incidents could interesting to review and discuss.

Did not perform well during Amir's testing? By all accounts, the measurements and review are pretty good based on Amir's own words. Even the frequency response discrepancy was subjectively favored by Amir (rolled off treble) vs. Ascend's measurements (rising response). Bu the discrepancy does exist and that's what led to the speculation that something is up with the ribbon. This would be the difference between a "bright" speaker and one that's rolled off.
 
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Stump909

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But it still resonates, while I can run my loudspeakers at uncomfortable levels with zero resonance. 22mm MDF with lead bitumen on the inside walls. Outer finish is real wood veneer.


Unless you've measured them, that's really only subject to your own experience. That resonance oddly doesn't appear on the CSD.
 

goldark

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Reminds me of the Toole presentation on youtube where in a sighted test a "small, plastic sub/sat system" was rated much lower than some beautiful tower speakers, as they could not sound better - yet they did in the blind test.

I fail to see how this would explain my preference of the S2-EX over the Revel F206, a beautiful, glossy, tower speaker.
 

maty

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I own Q100 , Sierra2 and Sierra Towers w/ RAAL. I like my Q100 but they're still not as clear sounding and also struggle if you try and play them loud in a medium-small sized space compared to the Sierra2...

The only really quality of the KEF Q100 is the 5.25" coaxial Uni-Q driver. Having remedied the deficiencies (cost reduction), my modified Q100 sound much better than the originals.

I also know that it seems difficult to make coaxials work well with an additional woofer in the box, as R3 or R300.
 

TimVG

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I fail to see how this would explain my preference of the S2-EX over the Revel F206, a beautiful, glossy, tower speaker.


Well we haven't seen the measurements of the 2EX of course .. But in some cases: expectation bias.
 

Xulonn

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I think the point he was trying to make is that you can't guarantee that a used, borrowed speaker on loan from a member is up to spec/not defective/functioning as it should like you can if you had gotten it from the manufacturer.

I am very interested in the "durability" of consumer goods in this age when everything is deemed to be disposable. There are audio components that age well, and many that do not. And discussions of that aspect of audio is one of the main reasons I enjoy @restorer-john 's contributions to this forum. I play with, enjoy, and do not expect much from my cheap ChiFi DACs and amps, but ended up throwing two dead Topping PA3 Class-D amps in the trash last year. They are not much more than toys, although they can product surprisingly good sound. However, my main system contains a 27 year old Classé Model Seventy 70wpc Class AB stereo power amplifier that just tested like new - with the original PS capacitors.

I will follow this aspect of the Ascend speaker discussions with interest. Are they reliable and durable - or not?
 

goldark

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Well we haven't seen the measurements of the 2EX of course .. But in some cases: expectation bias.

Attached 2EX spin.

I'm not sure why you can't take me at my word that I prefer the S2-EX over the Revel F206 (I made an entire thread on it at AVSForum: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-s...essions-ascend-sierra-2-ex-vs-revel-f206.html ) without coming up with reasons like expectation bias or your first comment which dealt with how it looked.

If it had been the other way around (my preference of Revel over Ascend), I doubt you'd be commenting to try to justify why my preference is invalid.
 

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