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Intona USB 3.0 Isolator Review

thefsb

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That was a few seconds of more excitement than you need...
It was only next day when I repaired the computer that I figured out what had happened. The guitar's strings are tied to its signal ground and that was at 110 V. So all the guitar's exposed metal parts and strings would have been at 110 for a moment.

Yikes.
 
D

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I thought the new one was better :'(. Actually the new issue is:

1. Isolator USB B + Power Aux = 3volts (pasive device with lot of reboots due lack of power)
2. Isolator USB B only = 5 volts (doesn't turn on any pasive device, seems like a power protection fault)
3. Power Aux Only = 5 volts (pasive device works! haha)

The ony way to use it is by plug and unplug quickly the aux power...

I want to think the Intona support take all this time without reply my support ticket in order to fix this issue.

Are you sure it’s not that the Matrix X-SPDIF drawing slightly more than 5v on start up? When I used the X-SPDIF with an Auralic Aries Mini it would not start up unless I used a dual USB cable on initial start up. It was fine once it was on. The Auralic designer assured me the Mini was to spec and provided the specified 5v and it was likely the Matrix that Needed more on start up. No idea if he was right but sounds like you’re experiencing something similar.

On an unrelated note, can I ask why you’re using both an Intona and Matrix X-SPDIF in chain? What’s your use case?
 

ryohnosuke

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Are you sure it’s not that the Matrix X-SPDIF drawing slightly more than 5v on start up? When I used the X-SPDIF with an Auralic Aries Mini it would not start up unless I used a dual USB cable on initial start up. It was fine once it was on. The Auralic designer assured me the Mini was to spec and provided the specified 5v and it was likely the Matrix that Needed more on start up. No idea if he was right but sounds like you’re experiencing something similar.

On an unrelated note, can I ask why you’re using both an Intona and Matrix X-SPDIF in chain? What’s your use case?

That's weird, could me more related to amperes. Actually volts are a "fixed" thing. I bought the isolator for testing purposes.
 

MC_RME

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Although I might sound like an Intona sales man, here are some information that I have spread and published on various places before.

- whenever you measure unbalanced, chances are big that at least one or two switched power supplies are involved (laptop, desktop, DAC, ADC...). The USB connection is the link then that ruins the measurements. Therefore I personally have 2 old Intona USB 2, one Alldaq USB 3, and one new Intona USB 2 isolator. They easily fix this kind of problem.

- there are big differences between all the available isolators. The first popular version was a chip from Analog Devices, that unfortunately only supported USB 1. That maxes out with 2 channels at 96 kHz.

Then came Silanna with a chip that was supposed to support USB 2, but seemed to be so buggy that it did not show up for several years.

In the same time (maybe a bit before, not sure) Intona started to build a USB 2 isolator discretely, by processing the input USB stream within an FPGA, transceiving the content via capacitors (galvanic decoupling) into a secondary FPGA which turns this all back into USB 2. Their solution was absolutely unique because very complicated (due to the nature of the USB 2 format), and because it operated like a wire. The operating system does not see the Intona, it does not use precious USB resources - a big advantage against all other isolators with hubs included. The Intona solution also had only a few picofarad coupling between primary and secondary ensuring perfect measurements.

Meanwhile the Silanna chip with added hub as refresher/reclocker on the secondary side (the original idea was that an additional hub chip is not needed, but that seemed not to be compatible enough) showed up in various isolators of various brands. I did not test all these. I did test the Hifime (and reported in this forum already, it completely failed with ADI-2 Pro and DAC), and the Alldaq USB 3.

In-between Corning had designed a USB 3 optical cable extension. That one is a must have if you need USB 3 in excessive lengths (there is simply no alternative), but it also has an excessive price point. Due to the simplifed nature of USB 3 format it is much easier to do capacitive coupling of the data lines (that's why suddenly several isolators showed up that can do so), but as USB 2 MUST be supported as well, Corning had to add a full USB 2 solution into a small connector (fabulous engineering work, done in Berlin ;) . It is not fully transparent (shows up as hub). The most disappointing thing here is that the cable includes two thin copper wires that deliver 5 Volt to the female end of the cable, so despite being optical it does not provide galvanic isolation! I was in contact with the developers at Corning and it seemed they simply overlooked that use case. So some people carefully cut the cable's wires and provide the 5 Volt locally to the female socket to have full galavanic isolation. Not me, though, don't want to destroy it...

- the remaining capacitive coupling in the Intonas is the lowest I have experienced. The Alldaq is less good with USB 2, which is easy to see in measurements, but works ok in USB 3.

- the price of the Intona is more than justified. It had a long development time, includes a lot of know-how, and the old unit was even expensive in parts. The newer, smaller unit (I bought it just for the better form factor and easier handling) is still expensive, but as long as there is no other mass-market chip solution that can compete I don't see why they should lower their prices. On the contrary you could say that all others using the Silanna chip had much less development effort plus lower part costs and should lower their prices...

- the Intona 5 KV version uses (really) expensive optical coupling, no way to achieve this with capacitors.

- Intona never designed these units for audiophiles. But these were the people that quickly flooded their order books, so it might be realistic to say that the smaller form factor and nicer housing is a reaction to that demand.

- as noted above I have no problems to quickly connect a few units and get heavy artefacts in my measurements. When I got my first Intona I was so happy that I sent them a measurement that they had put on their home page:

https://intona.eu/en/support/answer/1233

As you can see the effects are not just a few spikes at 50 Hz and multiples. Totally wrong harmonics and a raised noise floor. Not that this was audible (it wasn't), but who wants to spend hundreds of dollars on modern top DACs, and then get such mediocre quality to the speakers? So I can understand that people who can't measure buy this stuff just to have peace of mind.

Note: I tried the newer Intona's Aux input with a Babyface Pro, and it worked, but I didn't check the exact voltages. Will do so later.

-------------------------------
Edit: As I can still edit this post I thought it makes sense to add one correction and one information directly here.

- the voltage on the two wires of the Corning cable is 15 Volt, not 5 Volt.

- there exists an optical USB 3 cable made by Lindy with full galvanic isolation. It has a power input at the female side. I never tested it because it was not available below 30 meters length, and then was already at 300 Dollar. That was 2016, though, don't know how the current state is.
 
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Todesengel

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Intona support found this issue and gave me a new "fixed" isolator that works WORSE than the previous one. I reported the new issues 3 weeks ago and I'm still waiting for their response.

I believe I was one of the first to purchase the new line of isolators prior to their public launch, I originally had S/N 2. I had a problem with 'blurps' when it was in the chain. Intona was able to respond quickly, identify a firmware issue, patch it and send an advanced replacement. I couldn't be more satisfied with their support- sorry they haven't been as attentive with you after they replaced your unit one time.
 

tw99

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Thanks for the detailed reply @MC_RME . I hadn't realised the complexities in this area and assumed that workable off the shelf solutions were available (hence couldn't understand why it has FPGAs in it)
 

Soniclife

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Although I might sound like an Intona sales man, here are some information that I have spread and published on various places before.

- whenever you measure unbalanced, chances are big that at least one or two switched power supplies are involved (laptop, desktop, DAC, ADC...). The USB connection is the link then that ruins the measurements. Therefore I personally have 2 old Intona USB 2, one Alldaq USB 3, and one new Intona USB 2 isolator. They easily fix this kind of problem.

- there are big differences between all the available isolators. The first popular version was a chip from Analog Devices, that unfortunately only supported USB 1. That maxes out with 2 channels at 96 kHz.

Then came Silanna with a chip that was supposed to support USB 2, but seemed to be so buggy that it did not show up for several years.

In the same time (maybe a bit before, not sure) Intona started to build a USB 2 isolator discretely, by processing the input USB stream within an FPGA, transceiving the content via capacitors (galvanic decoupling) into a secondary FPGA which turns this all back into USB 2. Their solution was absolutely unique because very complicated (due to the nature of the USB 2 format), and because it operated like a wire. The operating system does not see the Intona, it does not use precious USB resources - a big advantage against all other isolators with hubs included. The Intona solution also had only a few picofarad coupling between primary and secondary ensuring perfect measurements.

Meanwhile the Silanna chip with added hub as refresher/reclocker on the secondary side (the original idea was that an additional hub chip is not needed, but that seemed not to be compatible enough) showed up in various isolators of various brands. I did not test all these. I did test the Hifime (and reported in this forum already, it completely failed with ADI-2 Pro and DAC), and the Alldaq USB 3.

In-between Corning had designed a USB 3 optical cable extension. That one is a must have if you need USB 3 in excessive lengths (there is simply no alternative), but it also has an excessive price point. Due to the simplifed nature of USB 3 format it is much easier to do capacitive coupling of the data lines (that's why suddenly several isolators showed up that can do so), but as USB 2 MUST be supported as well, Corning had to add a full USB 2 solution into a small connector (fabulous engineering work, done in Berlin ;) . It is not fully transparent (shows up as hub). The most disappointing thing here is that the cable includes two thin copper wires that deliver 5 Volt to the female end of the cable, so despite being optical it does not provide galvanic isolation! I was in contact with the developers at Corning and it seemed they simply overlooked that use case. So some people carefully cut the cable's wires and provide the 5 Volt locally to the female socket to have full galavanic isolation. Not me, though, don't want to destroy it...

- the remaining capacitive coupling in the Intonas is the lowest I have experienced. The Alldaq is less good with USB 2, which is easy to see in measurements, but works ok in USB 3.

- the price of the Intona is more than justified. It had a long development time, includes a lot of know-how, and the old unit was even expensive in parts. The newer, smaller unit (I bought it just for the better form factor and easier handling) is still expensive, but as long as there is no other mass-market chip solution that can compete I don't see why they should lower their prices. On the contrary you could say that all others using the Silanna chip had much less development effort plus lower part costs and should lower their prices...

- the Intona 5 KV version uses (really) expensive optical coupling, no way to achieve this with capacitors.

- Intona never designed these units for audiophiles. But these were the people that quickly flooded their order books, so it might be realistic to say that the smaller form factor and nicer housing is a reaction to that demand.

- as noted above I have no problems to quickly connect a few units and get heavy artefacts in my measurements. When I got my first Intona I was so happy that I sent them a measurement that they had put on their home page:

https://intona.eu/en/support/answer/1233

As you can see the effects are not just a few spikes at 50 Hz and multiples. Totally wrong harmonics and a raised noise floor. Not that this was audible (it wasn't), but who wants to spend hundreds of dollars on modern top DACs, and then get such mediocre quality to the speakers? So I can understand that people who can't measure buy this stuff just to have peace of mind.

Note: I tried the newer Intona's Aux input with a Babyface Pro, and it worked, but I didn't check the exact voltages. Will do so later.
Good info. I have one of the usb1 things, ugly little thing with no casework, but it worked to fix horrible noise between my silent PC and a range of DACs.
What's you opinion of how much of this noise suppression should be inside a DAC?
 

zenmastering

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Regarding the Aux USB port:

https://intona.eu/en/support/answer/2112

I use a couple of these Intona isolation devices in my studio, hanging off the end of USB extenders that do not themselves galvanically isolate. Well worth the money spent to keep the analogue path as quiet as possible. (Using RME ADI-2 DAC and Pro 2 AD/DA!)
 

jam

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Intona knows what they are doing when it comes to proper, professional USB isolators. As much as audiophiles are running to them to buy their products, I cannot recommend it for this application. Any half-decent DAC -- and I am talking $99 and above -- produces great performance by filtering its own USB power. And isolating its digital stream from the DAC output.

Thanks Amir for the objective review supported by measurements. I was considering buying this USB isolator in a few months after reading a glowing review on a well known audio review website where the founder/main reviewer constantly writes in hyperbole; maybe it's because he lives on a planet with multiple moons and it goes up to his head. ;)
 

ryohnosuke

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I believe I was one of the first to purchase the new line of isolators prior to their public launch, I originally had S/N 2. I had a problem with 'blurps' when it was in the chain. Intona was able to respond quickly, identify a firmware issue, patch it and send an advanced replacement. I couldn't be more satisfied with their support- sorry they haven't been as attentive with you after they replaced your unit one time.
I have the S/N "000131" v2.0.3. Yes support was very quick the first time I reported the issue, this second time seems like I'm being ignored :'(.

I tried with RME Babyface Pro FS and it just have a flickering clicky sound (from relays?) I think is pretty normal because this interface needs more than 500mA from USB port to work. With aux power on isolator Babyface Pro FS works perfect.

I don't know why voltage drops to 2.8~3volts when aux power and Pro-Ject DAC is connected. Is crazy.
 

MC_RME

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Indeed that is. The BF Pro test says everything is right with your Intona. How did you measure these 2.8-3 Volts? Maybe the Pro-Ject draws too much power on startup, causing an over-current protection to react?
 

ryohnosuke

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@MC_RME Hi, I used an USB Tester.

93849df8-829d-46c1-bde6-c39c05a8ea95.jpg

Using a DC load, with no Aux power on the Isolator overcurrent protection runs over 580mA?, with Aux power runs over 2.5A (voltage drops to 3.8volts even with 2A load). To do this test I used a 5V-5A PSU... I noticed something that I was missing and seems that explains all.

As you said, if any pasive device like Pro-Ject DAC needs 1000mA or more to start up, the isolator will activate their overcurrent protection and this DAC will not turn on.

I was testing all the time with a 5V-2A Linear PSU but seems like their best is 4.85V /1.67A. Using this PSU as Aux power with the isolator I got the image above. I tried using my own computer port with the same results.

I tried that 5V-5A PSU and the Pro-Ject DAC turns on, with my cellphone charger 5V-2A the DAC turns on again...

Maybe the 5V to 5V transformer inside the isolator needs lot of power or it just doesn't like values below 5volts.
 
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MC_RME

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For reasons like this the BF Pro uses softstart to reduce the momentary inrush current on startup... :)
 

mansr

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For reasons like this the BF Pro uses softstart to reduce the momentary inrush current on startup... :)
The USB spec is pretty clear about what is allowed:
The maximum load (CRPB) that can be placed at the downstream end of a cable is 10 µF in parallel with 44 Ω. The 10 µF capacitance represents any bypass capacitor directly connected across the VBUS lines in the function plus any capacitive effects visible through the regulator in the device. The 44 Ω resistance represents one unit load of current drawn by the device during connect.
Now it's USB we're talking about, so 90% of devices simply ignore the spec.
 

Nikola

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Hey guys, long time lurker here. I just have to share what I have just experienced with you. So here is the story.

My friend had a problem with weird noise(no sound playback) coming from his active speakers for a long time. Problem intensified when he recently bought a new computer, and after debugging for some time it became obvious that noise is coming from PC over USB cable(noise is changing depending on what you are doing on computer). This type of noise is unbearable, it can drive you crazy. He is using Steinberg UR-RT2 audio interface and feeding it from PC via USB. After trying pretty much everything we found online to solve the problem(for example using USB powered hub did not help), I gave him my Topping D50s to try it out. Noise was slightly lower but it was still there and unbearable. As I noticed that it started taking a heavy toll on my friends mood, I spent quite some time investigating these USB isolators. Somehow at the same time @amirm posted this review and I got interested, until I saw the price...
But after @MC_RME shared his opinion, and since I also have RME ADI 2 DAC(it would also be interesting to test it in my friends system) for which I believe is maybe the best device I have bought in my life, I became sure that this Intona USB isolator could save my friends mental health. ;) I was thinking, it is a far fetch, but maybe I can look it up in our domestic used market, thus avoiding paying full price for it, not to mention import fees. And there it was! :) One single device on a sale. Given all these coincidences happening in such a short span, for a moment I thought that I am dreaming or that I am being part of some kind of a strange simulation. We contacted the guy right away and said that we want to demo the device, if it works we are buying. We put Intona USB 2.0 in between PC and UR-RT2 and puff, noise is gone!!! It was like magic, we could not believe it, and look on my friends face - priceless! Only pure jam blasting from his speakers now! :)

Thank you guys, you are the best!
 

MC_RME

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I updated post 64 with two more points.
 

solderdude

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There could be a market for USB power injectors with low leakage currents and high peak current capabilities ... :D
 

mansr

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Indeed!
View attachment 52279

More than 1.5A if you let it alone... really Pro-Ject? 90ms current peak
View attachment 52280

BTW, I can confirm that Pro-Ject DAC turns on with less than 400mA (with no isolator). I will send a new feedback to Intona support.
Yikes, that will trip the overcurrent protection on some host ports. Can you also graph the Vbus voltage when connecting the device to a normal USB port? It would be interesting to see how much it drops.
 

ryohnosuke

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Yikes, that will trip the overcurrent protection on some host ports. Can you also graph the Vbus voltage when connecting the device to a normal USB port? It would be interesting to see how much it drops.

Seems the same even with USB2.0 Port, sometimes it reach 1.9A when is 'cold'.

pro-ject_USB2-0_port.png
pro-ject_USB3-1_port.png
 
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